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#426 Re: Off-topic » [SOLVED] Anyone with a 386 willing to satisfy a curiosity for me? » 2021-07-14 05:33:04

Tatwi wrote:

results show that the emulators aren't entirely accurate (PCem Pentium 233MMX is 30% faster than my real Pentium 233MMX machine), so I'd like to get some accurate results from real hardware.

Those old boxes (particularly 486 and early Pentium) were extremely sensitive to motherboard chipset, bus speed, wait states, and cache and memory timings. IMO 30% variation isn't outside the realm of possibility, not knowing the exact system PCEM is targeting or the details of your benchmark.

Tatwi wrote:

That's a nice machine!

It sure is cute, and like most IBM hardware of the time it's built like a tank. Wish the BIOS had more (or more like _any_) configuration options though.
Documentation is pretty scarce too, and original software packages are apparently unobtainium as only the unicorn "no hard file" (HDD-less) models came with any install media.
Still, it can Doom, and it can Descent. Hell, it can even Fallout at a playable framerate, so that's a win.
One day I might even get around to seeing how well it can Warp, that being the only truly appropriate OS for an IBM 486 box and all.

Tatwi wrote:

Technically my first PC was a hand-me-down 486DX4 100 clone that I used for a bit in 1998. Getting it running taught me how to remove a Master Boot Sector virus, shortly after learning what a boot sector was!

Mine was a hand-me-down as well, a mighty 386 sx-16, with 4MB RAM, an 80MB HDD (what luxury!) and a hercules mono display.
It came with a copy of Borland Turbo Pascal, a couple of books... and an admonition to "not waste time with that awful language" (BASIC) tongue
As there was exactly zero entertainment available that would run on a Hercules MGA, the only option was writing my own, which I did with rather... mixed results. I still kinda miss the awesome compilation speed of turbo pascal, it put my current 5GHz Gentoo desktop to shame.

Tatwi wrote:

If you're able to down clock you 486 to 33MHz that would be great, but the results at 66MHz or 100MHz would be excellent as well, because I could compare them to my results from emulated systems (using PCem version 17)...

I can certainly get 66 and 100, 33 will be a bit more interesting. TBH I suspect many of the jumpers on this board are just for show, and the BIOS secretly does whatever it feels like on any given day.

Tatwi wrote:

Please don't feel obligated to help, especially if it means futzing with your hardware to do so. My burning curiosity is not that important. smile

Futzing with the hardware isn't a problem, that's kinda what the box is for. Just not today. Today is for installing Debian Etch, and yes, that will indeed take most of the day.

Now that I have a fully functional network stack I'll probably just FTP QBasic onto it, assuming running in FreeDOS won't bugger up the results.
I'll have a go sometime in the next couple of days, time permitting.

#427 Re: Off-topic » [SOLVED] Anyone with a 386 willing to satisfy a curiosity for me? » 2021-07-13 07:00:50

No 386 unfortunately, the oldest operational machine I have is an IBM PC 330 100-DX4 (AKA 6571-W5L).
Intel 486 DX4-100, 256k L2 (WT), 48MB 70ns FPM RAM, CL-GD5430 video (via VLB-PCI bridge).
I have a DX2-66 CPU I could drop in it for some extra slowness, and I could probably try underclocking it, if the IBM CrippleBIOS(TM) will let me of course.

It's running the latest FreeDOS, which I'm not overly keen to uproot, and the drive is a) FAT32 formatted, and b) a complete bastard to get at, so if you want such a data point you'll have to point me at a source for this QBasic whatsit. I was a Pascal nerd back when, so I never had need or desire to go near it.

#428 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Audacity and Musescore Spyware problem » 2021-07-09 18:45:10

brocashelm wrote:

It now has XDG support, which is essential from a technical point of view.

That's a nice start, but I'd hardly call it essential. Low-hanging fruit is what it is. (TBF that's more a dig at the audacity team for not dealing with it sooner).
Still, progress is progress, and progress is good. Shame it got buried under a torrent of noise and tired simpsons references, otherwise I might have noticed it sooner.

#429 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Audacity and Musescore Spyware problem » 2021-07-09 09:41:18

brocashelm wrote:

I think it's off to a solid start. Forks usually take a while to get the hang of, having just been launched.

Well, you do you and all that. I'll take sneedacity seriously when the volume of functional, constructive commits exceeds that of asinine juvenile memeing, "easter eggs", and changing the names of anything and everything to be as offensive as possible.
That kind of behaviour might fly on the 'chans, but it's a lousy way to run a software project.

brocashelm wrote:

Also, they have an IRC channel that's gaining traction.

...which is, unsurprisingly, full of the same.

mstrohm wrote:

I consider tenacity (https://github.com/tenacityteam/tenacity) the real fork.

Tenacity does indeed look more like a software project and less like a frat-party, but then activity on any of the forks is still largely just buggering about with documentation and naming.
Dealing with the trademark issues is a necessary evil, but it gives few real clues as to the committent, ability, or intent of the contributors. Any fool can shove a bunch of docs through sed.

Frankly I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, ya' know, the one that contains some technical merit. The politics and bickering is just a sideshow.
Right now what we have is several largely-unaltered copies of the original codebase, with varying levels of "hey look, I changed one line in README.md" contribution.

I'm sure one or other of the squabbling tribes will pull together (or even in vaguely the same direction) sooner or later, but as it stands the difference between sneedacity/tenacity/audacium/etc. etc. and me just pulling the audacity gpl code and patching out the the corporate insanity myself is effectively nil.

#430 Re: Off-topic » Presentation of LinuC » 2021-07-08 08:06:16

dice wrote:

Usually if a webpage has some html and css it will show even with noscript enabled, not sure why it doesnt for your website?

Because it's lazy-ass wordpress garbage, that's why. roll
It's also running a google-translate JS wrapper and doing a bunch of canvass fingerprinting (which my browser blocks), that's likely why it's so unbelievably slow.

@LinuxC, whoever wrote your website needs to be taken out behind the bikeshed and quietly shot. It's horrid.

#431 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Audacity and Musescore Spyware problem » 2021-07-08 04:20:52

brocashelm wrote:

Audacity has been officially forked. Its new name is Sneedacity

Personally I suggest waiting until the 4chan-powered clown-car pulls all the way out of the station before labelling anything "official".
While I do find both the name and the ongoing flamewar(s) somewhat amusing, right now picking out the competent developers from the trolls and small children is an exercise in futility. Time alone will tell which fork is in it for the long-game.

brocashelm wrote:

I'm also laughing my ass off at that "Cookie Engineer" kook crying over a poll

Arguing over a name is indeed funny, the doxxing and real-world harassment it lead to is not.

#432 Re: Documentation » HowTo - Install Ceres packages on a Beowulf system with Bedrock » 2021-07-08 04:13:19

While this is all very interesting, it does beg one obvious question... If the goal is to run "a few Ceres packages", why not just backport them locally?

#433 Re: Off-topic » Presentation of LinuC » 2021-07-08 04:05:36

LinuC wrote:

LinuC is back with a temporary html version

LOL, sure it is...

This site requires Javascript to work, please enable Javascript in your browser or use a browser with Javascript support

It also takes an age to load, even with javascript. I recommend you learn how to write HTML, you'll get better results.

In other news, please go away, and please desist from spamming this board with things nobody here is remotely interested in.

If at some point you decide to put some useful content on that website vapid blog, as opposed to the current religious claptrap, baseless accusations ("the LinuC website was attacked by Devuan hackers!", ROFL), and general paranoid rambling, I might have a look... But at this point it appears to contain nothing but drivel, vaporware, and a few links to distrowatch.

The door is just over there, and if this is all you have to share I suggest you use it post-haste.

#434 Re: Other Issues » How to get rid of Swap file during installation... » 2021-04-16 09:10:47

Sailor17 wrote:

Sorry for the google drive link. But it is to my personal folders. I don't want to open a "share picture account".

And I'm not going to open a google account just to view your log.
Pro tip: If you want people to spend their free time helping you, don't make it difficult for them. There are plenty of free no-signup imagehosts and pastebins.

Sailor17 wrote:

Or how to install devuan without that dam SWAP.

Pretty sure the netinstall iso still allows you to do that with manual partitioning.

Sailor17 wrote:

If this is going on, I will say goodbye linux and welcome windows. The actual development of linux is taking us back to the Middle Ages of Windos 3.

If that's your attitude, goodbye and good riddance.

Sailor17 wrote:

To my own surprise windows10 actually works fast, without any bad surprise under the hood.

If you like windows so much, nobody is preventing you from using it. vOv

#435 Re: Off-topic » Is this the future of Linux » 2021-04-09 20:22:51

Spock wrote:

after experimentation with bedrock and GUIX, I have come to the conclusion that they require so much of my time and energy that I just cannot afford to implement them

I came to much the same conclusion, and I run Gentoo on my desktop. tongue
There's effort, and then there's effort. Dealing with one packaging system at a time is enough for me.

#436 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Hard freeze on Cinnamon desktop » 2021-04-06 04:28:15

Micronaut wrote:

I'm at a loss how to 'fix' the problem

You and everyone else, unless you can gather more information on what is actually going wrong. Hence the suggestion to check logs and system responsiveness outside the GUI by dropping to a console or connecting over SSH when this happens.

#437 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Hard freeze on Cinnamon desktop » 2021-04-05 19:50:03

Micronaut wrote:

I'll have to try Ctrl-Alt-F1 if it happens again. I hadn't heard of that hot-key combination.

On key combos, it might also be worth enabling magic sysrq (IIRC it's restricted by default), if all else fails that usually gets you a console (or at least a memory dump) so you can see what's going on.

But yeah, I'm with HoaS, I recon it's probably a video driver problem.

#438 Re: Off-topic » Is this the future of Linux » 2021-04-03 19:41:32

Spock wrote:

I tried it but sort of lost interest half way through. It's quite difficult to do.

Nah, it's a cakewalk these days. You should try LFS. tongue
Installing Gentoo just requires a bunch of patience and an ability to follow instructions... As well as a free afternoon and about 3 gallons of coffee.
Being comfortable doing everything from the CLI (including a web-browser/reading the wiki) sure helps though, I suspect the "GUI is optional and comes last" bit is what puts people off.

Spock wrote:

It is only now, after 4 or 5 years of trying to find an honest distro that I realise the full extent of the infiltration of the corporations into the organisation of linux based operating systems etc, and only in the last year or two just how devious they have been in doing that.

I've been suspicious of the goings on at many of the big "open source" organisations for a long time, but the full-scale red-alert sounded right about when Microsoft, of all organisations, started shovelling money at open source developers and claiming to "love Linux"... Leopards and spots and all that jazz.

Then there's the whole "open source inclusiveness" movement (not to mention the RMS controversy, which we're not allowed to discuss here for some reason), which looks lovely on the surface, but fair reeks of corporate image/social media manipulation and employee codes of conduct... *politics detected: aborting*

As for Google and Firefox, yeah. That one is a pretty bitter pill, since gecko is really the only remaining independent (i.e. not  chrome/blink/webengine) browser engine in the game right now.
I'll still support Mozilla, since Mozilla was so very good to us way back when Microsoft sunk nutscrape Netscape Navigator, and that was the only GUI browser on GNU/Linux. I miss pre-google KHTML/webkit too TBH.

Google will fund any browser that punts traffic their way of course, and Firefox is no exception, but it's concerning when that's near-enough the only thing keeping a project alive. Doubly so when Google is also the main competitor in the browser space.

Spock wrote:

sometimes I sit here in despair thinking what has been lost

All is by no means lost, and there will always be old-school distros of some kind... There's also the BSD escape-pod, that's still largely uncorrupted.
IMO the days of "it's FOSS, so it's all good, it's all run by volunteer hackers and you can chat with them on the mailinglist" are pretty much over though. One might just want to be a little more careful what software one uses and who one donates to.

Spock wrote:

since the Void maintainer (their main maintainer) died it hasnt been quite up to standard.

A shame that, Void is (or at least was, I haven't used it for many years) pretty dang cool and we need independent distros now more than ever. I don't have the time or the skill to stick my oar in in any meaningful way, but here's hoping people from the Void community will step up.

Spock wrote:

I'm here using Devuan as a refugee

Aren't we all?

I'm here because Gentoo is too maintenance-intensive to run on a server (like all rolling release distros), Debian has fallen to system-everything, and pretty much all the small distros are too niche to package the software I want.
When it comes to large repo + init system plumbing freedom + low maintenance + stable releases, Devuan is kinda the only game in town IMO.

#439 Re: Off-topic » Is this the future of Linux » 2021-04-03 16:45:55

Spock wrote:

I am just hoping that the non-systemd distros arent forced into submission by some means.

I don't think anyone can force them per-se, at least not yet. What will likely happen is that as more and more upstream projects are subsumed into systemd, the burden of maintaining them or writing alternatives will become a major problem.

That's one of the reasons I plug Gentoo pretty hard, they (by which I mean "we", it's still "we" with Gentoo) are actively forking, fixing, and maintaining upstream stuff to keep it working. Eudev and elogind are the most obvious examples, but Gentoo also led the charge with untangling gnome from systemd, among other things, and continues to do so.

As far as Devuan goes, I do love apt and the (old) Debian attitude, but I wonder how long we can keep things working without support from mainstream Debian. The team is small (and seems pretty remote TBH), and there's rather a lot that's going to need forking...

Spock wrote:

Debian has already gone under in my opinion.

Debian fell a long time ago, they've ceased to be a democracy (or a meritocracy), stopped listening to the users, and I expect the divide between "user" and "developer" is too wide now for that to change.

I've been in and out of the Debian community for several years, and the change there is pretty stark. Gone are most of the really knowledgable sysadmin types, and the "make linux popular"/"everything work OOTB"/"I just wanna click on stuff", CLI-phobic zoom-installing, "halp everything is borken" (AKA gnome didn't start), unwilling to learn help-vampires are proliferating like crazy.
The "You're crazy if you don't want systemd, systemd is the future" inquisition is out in full-force as well.
Admittedly systemd-free distros do tend to attract the odd conspiracy theory whackjob... but then what community doesn't have it's share of nutters... And as the man said, just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you. wink

Spock wrote:

I remember when the puritanism of the debian devs put me off

The "resist shiny new shit, don't fix it if it isn't broken" attitude and no non-free stuff by default policy were two major reasons I started running Debian to begin with (that and automation for headless machines). Then somebody fixed something that wasn't broken, split the community and the devs down the middle, and it all went to hell.
Now that Debian is squarely on the slippery slope, I expect we'll be seeing proprietary blob installation and snaps as an option in the installer soon as well.

Again, I'll plug Gentoo here - it's a magical land-of-olde where you can still openly argue with the developers on the forum (they are active on the forum) without fear of locks or bans, and becoming one of those developers yourself is just a matter of proving that you have the chops and the motivation.
I rejoined that community after over a decade away (pretty much when Debian fell), and it was delightful. All the same people doing the same stuff they were doing in 2003.
No "One-Linux" garbage, no arguments over how easy the installer isn't or how the CLI is obsolete, and no being dismissed as a nutter for trying to do something outside "the way". Real bright people with real advice that isn't the "just go with the flow, it's easier" attitude you seem to get everywhere else these days.
RTFM is still alive and well (and TFM is very good), as is "help me to help you". The facebook-generation help-vampires are non-existent, and the signal-to-noise ratio is still satisfyingly high.

Want to run without systemd? Ask a Gentoo user.
Don't like pulseaudio? Ask a Gentoo user.
Want to keep your split /usr setup? Hit up the Gentoo forum, we're arguing about it right now. tongue
Pining for a static /dev like the old days? Hey, you can do that on Gentoo as well.
No crapkit, no whatever-d? No problem (and probably no DE, but that's a preference). Just compile the system without it.

Spock wrote:

Are you aware of this absolute gem of a post
https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459

I first read it long ago, when this "One-Linux" shitstorm was just getting started. I thought it was perhaps a little overexcited at the time (after all, surely intelligent people will see this for what it is and reject it), but looking back from ~6 years later all the predictions were spot on.

What we're dealing with now isn't some conspiracy theory or the ramblings of a revolutionary, it's reality. A reality where, in most large GNU/Linux distributions, "GNU" is being systematically replaced and the many small independent projects that used to make up the OS are being pushed to the curbside in favour of a few large all-consuming projects all developed by the same special few and funded by the same corporations.
A reality where devs are mythical, unapproachable beings who know what you want before you want it, and Linux is a "product" with an "image" and a social-media presence.

Systemd as init I could live with. Systemd as an optional init I would be happy with. Systemd the OS is another kettle of fish altogether.

It doesn't help one bit that those who are driving this are mostly holier-than-thou assholes either TBH, especially Lennart. You only have to read a few of his comments regarding Gentoo and Devuan to get the picture - we're all luddites and peasants, and the future is his way or the highway... But now I'm ranting, so I'll stop there.

#440 Re: Off-topic » systemd's new feature (wtf?) » 2021-04-02 22:01:19

dice wrote:

back in 2000 i was working at dhl using wyse terminals.

Back in 2000 I had rather more free time than I do now. wink I was also recovering from a very traumatic experience with RPM dependency hell and exploring a custom package management solution for LFS. Sadly that one was lost to the sands of time along with the hardware.

Spock wrote:

Am I wrong?

I doubt it. The truth will reveal itself soon enough, but it sure looks like a container system to me.

#441 Re: Off-topic » Is this the future of Linux » 2021-04-02 21:52:15

Spock wrote:

I happened to see a site for bedrock Linux, which is not, in and of itself, a distribution

Bedrock is kinda cool, but I'm far too attached to the old-school distro concept to pay too much attention to it... yet. Right now it's still a bit of an experiment IMO.

Spock wrote:

So my question is:
Is the future of linux going to be about choosing a base distro and adding on top of it features from other
distro's .

Perhaps. Personally I suspect that the "future of linux" (at least as far as the big players go) is that systemd + containers + snap/flatpack/appimage/whatever-silly-packaging-system-is-easy-for-proprietary-devs is going to take over. That's what corporate interests are pushing for, and many "open source" orgs are already thoroughly compromised.

Once this happens, a "distro" will just be cosmetic configuration on top of systemd + gnome. Big-tech will have successfully eliminated the independent maintainer, replaced all the critical GPL system infrastructure with LGPL systemd, and undermined Free Software to the point that the remaining old-school hackers will have to return to whatever holdout distros remain - which probably means Slackware, Gentoo, and maybe Devuan*... Or move to BSD.

Yes, it's a pessimistic prediction, and I do hope I'm wrong. It sure looks like "embrace, extend, extinguish" is in full swing though, and right now I'd say we're well into step 2. Even Microsoft has realised that they can't fight FLOSS directly, and they've been buying out projects and developers all over the place. Soon most of the important components of GNU/Linux will be open-source community efforts in name alone. It's not a bazaar any more if all the stalls are franchisees.

*Devuan is great and all, but we're still heavily dependent on upstream Debian... These days I don't trust the Debian devs to resist the smell of money any more than Redhat.

#442 Re: Off-topic » systemd's new feature (wtf?) » 2021-04-01 16:41:59

Altoid wrote:

For fuck's sake, does the shit never stop flowing?

Apparently not. At least not where corporate agendas are concerned, and shit always flows downhill.

fsmithred wrote:

This "new" implementation sounds like it might be a useful addition for a couple of specific cases.

By which we mean embedded systems integrators, which along with IBM, Microsoft, and the US military, is where the bulk of Redhat's funding is coming from at the moment.

dice wrote:

Ive only just discovered "immutable operating systems"

I was doing this sort of thing back in ~2000, when you could fit an entire GNU/Linux OS on a 1.44MB floppy disk. It's doesn't need to be complicated, it doesn't need containers, and it sure doesn't need systemd.
Of course you could do it with systemd + containers + whatever other bloated over-engineered garbage the shareholders are into at any given moment, but then you end up with something that's non-POSIX, non-portable, not even remotely Unix-like, and can't be reasoned about by a human sysadmin without 10 layers of abstraction and 30 management utilities... Not real surprising that's the approach the systemd devs are pushing, is it?

Then again. it could be a prank. If it is, it's a good one, because this is exactly the kind of "feature" I expect from the developers involved.

#443 Re: DIY » Minimalism Tips » 2021-03-26 08:30:20

andyprough wrote:

You should warn someone before sharing commands like that.

Or, someone should think before copy-pasting commands from a forum.

greenjeans wrote:
yad --calendar --undecorated --button=gtk-close:0 --skip-taskbar --borders=5 --posx=-1 --posy=-1 --width=300 --on-top

Bloat!

$ cal
     March 2021     
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
    1  2  3  4  5  6
 7  8  9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31

See, I can play this silly game too tongue

#444 Re: Off-topic » My Ryzen 7 1700-X Cooling experience! » 2021-03-16 04:41:38

swarfendor437 wrote:

I purchased a Noctua AH-15

An excellent call. Noctua make the best air coolers available, both in terms of performance and quality. Their maglev fans are also all-around excellent, and IME will outlast pretty much anything else.
As an added bonus, the Noctua Industrial PPC series is one of the few aftermarket fan options that works properly with the BMC on Supermicro server boards while still being (relatively) quiet.

#445 Re: Other Issues » (Unattended-upgrades) Apparently I'm running Debian... Again. » 2021-03-15 08:59:56

dice wrote:

Sorry i couldnt be of any help.

No worries, and no apology needed. This was more a "(loudly) bring it to somebody's attention that this stuff is slipping through again" than a "how do I fix it". Fixing it is easy, it's the "making sure 'debian' doesn't keep slipping into our default configs and breaking things" bit that I'm after.

dice wrote:

Maybe file a bug report again ??

Yeah, I'll get to that just as soon as I get around to figuring out how to report bugs... Round tuits are in short supply right now.

#446 Re: Other Issues » (Unattended-upgrades) Apparently I'm running Debian... Again. » 2021-03-13 18:53:36

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

That's not how it works

Yes yes, perhaps I should have said "let the automation pull packages from Debian without checking them for functionality on Devuan." The result is the same.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

So you do understand how to make unattended-upgrades work then?

Anyone who has a passing familiarity with sed can make unattended-upgrades work. Perhaps somebody should teach amprolla the same trick.
Likewise anyone who can search a bugtracker can realise that pulling down such packages from Debian without any squishy eyeballs on them is going to reintroduce bugs just like this one.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I think the community would appreciate a quick HowTo thread in the Freedom Hacks section

Frankly I suspect what the community would appreciate even more would be a little look into where that fix committed 4 years ago wandered off to in the first place.

On a completely off-topic note, you're extremely unlikely to see me in the "Freedom Hacks" sub, ever. The pretentious name alone is enough to keep me away.

#447 Re: Other Issues » (Unattended-upgrades) Apparently I'm running Debian... Again. » 2021-03-13 16:40:59

dice wrote:

I have never used unattended upgrades.

How many headless boxes do you administer? If you don't like needing to ssh into each one to apply updates, and want your machines to keep themselves up to date, mail you with results and schedule their own reboots for when there are no users logged in, unattended-upgrades is for you.

It's been in main at least as far back as etch, so it's not exactly exotic and I'm fairly confident I'm not the only one using it.

dice wrote:

Could the devuan 3.1 release notes shed a bit more light on this issue?

It sheds light on the grub menu problem, but this being a new (post point-release) install it already has that fix.

PRETTY_NAME="Devuan GNU/Linux 3 (beowulf)"
NAME="Devuan GNU/Linux"
VERSION_ID="3"
VERSION="3 (beowulf)"
VERSION_CODENAME=beowulf
ID=devuan
ID_LIKE=debian
HOME_URL="https://www.devuan.org/"
SUPPORT_URL="https://devuan.org/os/community"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.devuan.org/"

This is another problem of the same class all right though, i.e. rolling debian packages into the repos without checking them for debianisms.

#448 Other Issues » (Unattended-upgrades) Apparently I'm running Debian... Again. » 2021-03-13 14:06:51

steve_v
Replies: 21

Okay, let's install unattended-upgrades for a new-old headless Devuan box... This should just-work like it has for the last 20 years on Debian, right?

# apt install unattended-upgrades
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:
  python3-distro-info
Suggested packages:
  bsd-mailx default-mta | mail-transport-agent needrestart
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  python3-distro-info unattended-upgrades
0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 86.9 kB of archives.
After this operation, 339 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] 
Get:1 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf/main i386 python3-distro-info all 0.21 [7,896 B]
Get:2 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf/main i386 unattended-upgrades all 1.11.2 [79.0 kB]
Fetched 86.9 kB in 4s (21.9 kB/s)              
Preconfiguring packages ...
Selecting previously unselected package python3-distro-info.
(Reading database ... 49149 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../python3-distro-info_0.21_all.deb ...
Unpacking python3-distro-info (0.21) ...
Selecting previously unselected package unattended-upgrades.
Preparing to unpack .../unattended-upgrades_1.11.2_all.deb ...
Unpacking unattended-upgrades (1.11.2) ...
Setting up python3-distro-info (0.21) ...
Setting up unattended-upgrades (1.11.2) ...

Creating config file /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades with new version
Processing triggers for man-db (2.8.5-2) ...

And fire those updates to make sure it works...

# unattended-upgrades -d
Initial blacklist : 
Initial whitelist: 
Starting unattended upgrades script
Allowed origins are: origin=Debian,codename=beowulf,label=Debian, origin=Debian,codename=beowulf,label=Debian-Security
Using (^linux-image-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^linux-headers-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^linux-image-extra-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^linux-modules-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^linux-modules-extra-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^linux-signed-image-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^linux-image-unsigned-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^kfreebsd-image-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^kfreebsd-headers-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^gnumach-image-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^.*-modules-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^.*-kernel-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^linux-backports-modules-.*-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^linux-modules-.*-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^linux-tools-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^linux-cloud-tools-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^linux-buildinfo-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*|^linux-source-[0-9]+\.[0-9\.]+-.*) regexp to find kernel packages
Using (^linux-image-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^linux-headers-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^linux-image-extra-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^linux-modules-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^linux-modules-extra-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^linux-signed-image-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^linux-image-unsigned-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^kfreebsd-image-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^kfreebsd-headers-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^gnumach-image-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^.*-modules-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^.*-kernel-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^linux-backports-modules-.*-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^linux-modules-.*-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^linux-tools-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^linux-cloud-tools-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^linux-buildinfo-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$|^linux-source-4\.19\.0\-14\-686$) regexp to find running kernel packages
pkgs that look like they should be upgraded: 
Fetched 0 B in 0s (0 B/s)                                                                                                                                                                                                                  
fetch.run() result: 0
blacklist: []
whitelist: []
No packages found that can be upgraded unattended and no pending auto-removals
Extracting content from /var/log/unattended-upgrades/unattended-upgrades-dpkg.log since 2021-03-14 02:24:59

Huh. That's odd, I was expecting some updates...

Wait, what? Debian beowulf?

Oh look:

# grep -i devuan /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades

*crickets*

# grep -i debian /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades     
//     site          (eg, "http.debian.net")
// derived from /etc/debian_version:
root@mpdsrv:/etc/apt/apt.conf.d# grep -i debian /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades 
//   l,label         (eg, "Debian", "Debian-Security")
//   o,origin        (eg, "Debian", "Unofficial Multimedia Packages")
//     site          (eg, "http.debian.net")
// derived from /etc/debian_version:
        // but the Debian release itself will not be automatically upgraded.
//      "origin=Debian,codename=${distro_codename}-updates";
//      "origin=Debian,codename=${distro_codename}-proposed-updates";
        "origin=Debian,codename=${distro_codename},label=Debian";
        "origin=Debian,codename=${distro_codename},label=Debian-Security";
//      "o=Debian,a=stable";
//      "o=Debian,a=stable-updates";
//      "o=Debian,a=proposed-updates";
//      "o=Debian Backports,a=${distro_codename}-backports,l=Debian Backports";

Ahh. I see. This again.

Look, I realise it's a small team and all that, but can we please at least try to get the name of the distro right?
A bootloader that still says "Debian" is kind of embarrassing, but harmless. Borking things like unattended-upgrades is going to get someone pwned.

Best of all, according to the bugtracker this was supposedly fixed in 2017. Yet here it is again.

#449 Other Issues » MPD + ALSA hardware mixer screweyness and negative values » 2021-03-13 12:04:51

steve_v
Replies: 0

Granted this is probably an MPD bug, but it's all crickets in their forum and IRC and as I'm running it on Devuan... Hey, why not?

To begin:
Bog standard Beowulf netinstall + MPD and deps. No bloat, no monitor, just a dumpster-special Pentium 4 SSF desktop, 1GB RAM, and an old Xonar DS I had laying around.

MPD generally works fine, so long as I use the software mixer or an ALSA softvol plugin. But software volume control over the range I need sounds like arse, and the card in question has a nice hardware mixer I would very much like to use.
Like is probably an understatement here TBH, the thing is hooked directly to an old-school dumb-as-rocks 350WPC (real, continuous RMS Watts mind you) power amplifier. That means no volume knob, nada, nothing but a power switch, 2 inputs and 2 outputs. I want that soundcard mixer working.

A random selection of other CLI media players work just fine with the hardware mixer, as does mopidy's alsamixer plugin. But it's mopidy, and that means dog-slow python-hell.

Here's a snip from a 0-100% volume ramp with mpc and the corresponding output from amixer:

volume: 60%   repeat: off   random: off   single: off   consume: off
  Front Left: Playback 232 [81%] [-11.50dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 232 [81%] [-11.50dB] [on]
volume: 62%   repeat: off   random: off   single: off   consume: off
  Front Left: Playback 233 [82%] [-11.00dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 233 [82%] [-11.00dB] [on]
volume: 62%   repeat: off   random: off   single: off   consume: off
  Front Left: Playback 233 [82%] [-11.00dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 233 [82%] [-11.00dB] [on]
volume: 63%   repeat: off   random: off   single: off   consume: off
  Front Left: Playback 234 [82%] [-10.50dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 234 [82%] [-10.50dB] [on]
volume: 65%   repeat: off   random: off   single: off   consume: off
  Front Left: Playback 235 [83%] [-10.00dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 235 [83%] [-10.00dB] [on]
volume: 65%   repeat: off   random: off   single: off   consume: off
  Front Left: Playback 235 [83%] [-10.00dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 235 [83%] [-10.00dB] [on]
volume: n/a   repeat: off   random: off   single: off   consume: off
  Front Left: Playback 2 [-111%] [-126.50dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 2 [-111%] [-126.50dB] [on]
volume: 68%   repeat: off   random: off   single: off   consume: off
  Front Left: Playback 237 [85%] [-9.00dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 237 [85%] [-9.00dB] [on]
volume: 68%   repeat: off   random: off   single: off   consume: off
  Front Left: Playback 237 [85%] [-9.00dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 237 [85%] [-9.00dB] [on]
volume: 69%   repeat: off   random: off   single: off   consume: off
  Front Left: Playback 238 [86%] [-8.50dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 238 [86%] [-8.50dB] [on]

And here's the full run.

See that glitch in the middle there where 84% takes a random holiday? That's potentially "I have no windows any more" levels of not-good, and it makes most MPD clients have kittens.

There's nothing unusual in my mpd.conf, and nothing weird in my /etc/asound.conf or ~/.asoundrc either, as those files are absent.
amixer output looks like this, again nothing odd except perhaps that the "Master" control is multichannel.

The Debian/Devuan MPD build is so fossilised upstream won't speak of it, so I went as far as to compile the latest (0.22.6) from source, with identical results.
I'm now back with 0.21.5 from the repos, and as the instructions on that one amount to "too old, go bug Debian about it", here I am.

Anyone have any ideas that aren't "Use softvol" or "Use mopidy"?

#450 Re: Off-topic » Digital minimalism. How many applications do you use daily » 2021-03-06 16:27:01

dice wrote:

you have given a list of types of programs, not the actual programs you use.

Indeed. Because:

dice wrote:

Same for the OP

It seemed that's what was being asked.

If you like:
Kwin/KDE
Dolphin
Firefox
Kmail
Kontact
KeepassXC
Filezilla
Jdownloader
Transmission-remote
Pidgin
KRDC
Libreoffice / Okular / FBreader
Gwenview & DigiKam
GIMP
Smplayer
Cantata & MPD
Easytag & Flacon
Kate
GCC, make, etc. scripted from Kate.
QCAD (I need .dwg compatibility that works)
Pre-Autodesk Eagle (I need the component libraries)
VirtualBox
Kcalc
Labplot
Lutris, WINE, DXVK etc. etc.

Konsole, bash, and all the CLI stuff therein.
All the other things I have forgotten but would miss immediately if I were to remove them wink

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