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Sorry if my request that someone else consider connecting with DropBox & asking that they consider Devuan as another OS to align their Apps to was so outrageous.
More amusing than outrageous IMO. Nobody is going to contact commercial software vendors for you, least of all Devuan developers, maintainers or forum admins.
Frankly I doubt anyone cares very much at all, since there are supported FOSS alternatives already in the repos.
Devuan "supports" software that devuan packages. If you want to install some random proprietary package you downloaded from the 'net, deciding whether it's "safe" or not is your gig and nobody else's.
Posts along the lines of "Can someone do $thing for me, I don't have time" don't tend to win many friends in FOSS circles unless you are otherwise productively contributing to a project, and you run a real risk of coming across as "My time is more valuable than yours".
Do any other users have concerns about logging in through an insecure portal?
No. I don't reuse passwords, the probability of somebody running a MITM attack on my login to a random forum is miniscule, and even if they did and managed to impersonate me here, who the hell would care?
should our forum login page be over a secure connection?
It is. If you do somehow get redirected to the login form over HTTP (which I haven't seen myself), that's easy to prevent on the browser end with the likes of the HTTPS-everywhere extension.
This ubiquitous bleating about HTTPS with complete disregard for attack surface, user responsibility and basic password hygiene, or even relevance is quite tiring.
Security is a process, not "if [[ ${URL bar} =~ "padlock icon" ]]; then sleep; else panic; fi".
Somewhere I read the starting order was important... but mine looks different.
This appears to work better than stopAI's simpler script.
Just reporting back that GlennW's script seems to work well.
That script is a simplified version of what Gentoo and Slackware (and likely other non-systemd distros) are using to start pipewire.
PW doesn't daemonise properly, exit with the user's session, or manage it's own instances and ordering, instead relying on systemd user units for all that.
The 1 second sleep is required for reliability, and killing pipewire processes avoids not having sound after a logout -> login (unless you have elogind and KillUserProcesses=yes, which kills everything).
Personally I got rid of all that hacky mess, and am using daemon to manage pipewire (and cdemu, which has the same problems). Binding to the user session requires [e]logind and backporting daemon from unstable, but also neatly solves the "pipewire doesn't exit with session" problem.
Runlevel 1 boots without a network.
Well, yeah. That's kinda the point - "single user mode", no network, no services, just a single local console login for maintenance or troubleshooting. Sysv came from unix mainframes and all that.
Steve_v you mention adding to the kernel command line. Would that be editing /boot/config-6.1.69 and the param: CONFIG_CMDLINE?
A line at the top of that fle says: # Automatically generated file; DO NOT EDIT.
That's the saved kernel configuration (i.e. a copy of /usr/src/linux/.config) for the installed linux-image package, and that parameter records the default command line (if one was) specified when the kernel was compiled.
While you could recompile the kernel to change the command line, that's work, and not how most sane people do it.
Try your bootloader configuration instead
Assuming you're using GRUB, permanent changes can be made by editing /etc/default/grub (GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX variable), and running 'update-grub'.
For a one-off, you can just edit the command line (starts with 'linux=<image name>') directly from the bootloader screen by hitting 'e' on a boot entry.
The display above is sysv-rc-conf. Convenient perhaps, but not really necessary as it's just a TUI frontend for update-rc.d.
TBH the first thing I'd do is see if the system will boot to single user mode (pass "single" or "1" on the kernel command line)... But again, boot issues are difficult to diagnose remotely, so more options more better.
I mention sysrq because when getting a working shell to see what's going on or fix something is the goal, sometimes a large hammer (e.g. "Kernel, kindly kill with fire everything except init") is the most effective tool.
Magic sysrq is a kernel facility, docs here.
SAK (ctrl-alt-sysrq-k) is Secure Attention (or Access) Key and kills everything on the current tty except login.
Unraw (ctrl-alt-sysrq-r) switches the keyboard to xlate mode, which can be useful to wrest keyboard control from a misbehaving or crashed X process.
The term and kill commands might also be useful, in the case some init script or daemon has gone rampant ![]()
Default Debian installation does not make any difference between runlevels 2-5. You may customize them to your liking. Runlevels S (single) and 1 are used for maintenance.
The common xdm only in runlevel 5 convention comes from somewhere else, I forget exactly where.
You might try the usual tricks, like issuing a sysrq unraw or sak at an unresponsive login prompt, booting into runlevel 1 or S from the kernel command line, or at a pinch just passing sulogin (or even just sh) as init to boot direct to a shell and bypass normal startup altogether.
The "recovery shell" you mention is probably either runlevel 1 (or the synonymous "single") as above, or an initrd shell you'll be dropped into if the root fs is unavailable. Pretty sure Devuan has those and always has.
The apparmor stuff is probably harmless, for some unfathomable reason it keeps getting pulled in unless you pin it, then complains because it's not configured properly. In all it's kind of difficult to diagnose something like this from here without seeing the boot process.
Dude, shuddup (or sober up). Your posts are barely coherent at best, and swearing at the admins isn't going to win you any popularity contests.
Personally I think Devuan should move to openrc as default, and pool init documentation (and service scripts) with Gentoo, Artix, Alpine and Nitrux (and maybe even GhostBSD, which is pretty cool as far as BSD desktops go
).
But that's just me. While it does still do what it should, I have no particular love of sysv, insserv or LSB.
Itś been so long since I ran a sysV init system that I had forgotten to look in /etc/init.d/
To add insult, it's pretty difficult to find information on sysv on the 'net at large these days, as most distros have replaced the content of their online manuals and wikis with systemd stuff (as opposed to keeping both).
The debian manual for example lists sysvinit-core and insserv under "List of boot utilities", then goes on to talk about systemd and only systemd. So much for init diversity ![]()
OTOH, that does incentivise the local use of 'man' and 'apropos' rather than looking for lazy howtos online, which can't be a bad thing ![]()
If you not having problems, with discourse, then no need to worry.
Browsers aside, I prefer "If you not having problems with discourse, then you need to worry.", or simply "If you're using discourse, you have a problem." ![]()
That thing is the most obnoxious "forum" software I have ever had the misfortune to encounter.
Assuming you are running a display manager (e.g. slim) and would prefer to boot to a console login, the traditional sysv approach would be to remove its start link from one or more runlevels, then make one of those runlevels the default.
The former is best handled with update-rc.d on Debian based systems, and the latter can be done by editing /etc/inittab, either manually or with a stream editor.
e.g.
update-rc.d slim disable 3followed by:
sed -i 's/id:.:initdefault:/id:3:initdefault:/g' /etc/inittabSee 'man init', 'man inittab' and 'man update-rc.d' for details.
Alternatively, if you will never need a graphical login you could just uninstall the display manager altogether.
Did you get dma as a Devuan package?
Of course, and the link I dropped points to the Devuan package index.
$ apt show dma
Package: dma
Version: 0.13-1+b1
Priority: optional
Section: mail
Source: dma (0.13-1)
Maintainer: Arno Töll <arno@debian.org>
Installed-Size: 165 kB
Provides: mail-transport-agent
Depends: ucf (>= 0.28), debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, libc6 (>= 2.33), libssl3 (>= 3.0.0)
Conflicts: mail-transport-agent
Replaces: mail-transport-agent
Homepage: https://github.com/corecode/dma
Tag: implemented-in::c, interface::daemon, mail::smtp, mail::transport-agent,
protocol::smtp, protocol::ssl, role::program, works-with::mail
Download-Size: 52.1 kB
APT-Manual-Installed: yes
APT-Sources: http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus/main amd64 Packages
Description: lightweight mail transport agentPerhaps you would post here what's in yours.
Sure:
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-backports main contrib non-free non-free-firmwareWhat does Devuan supply for an MTA? Most of the distributions I have used in the past used exim, later exim4. but thatś huge and over kill for a single user system.
The default MTA is still exim4, and the same alternatives are available as in Debian. For single-user systems with an external smtp server I quite like dma.
Since Devuan is derived from Debian is there a problem taking packages from the Debian repositories?
The vast majority of packages in Devuan are Debian packages, so while you can install most things from the Debian repos (bearing DontBreakDebian in mind), there's usually no reason to.
I find /etc/systemd/system well populated.
Will I break the system if I delete /etc/systemd/ ?
Almost certainly not, they're just unit files that came with packages merged from Debian (see above). There's no reason to delete them (or filter them out to begin with) though, as they do nothing by themselves.
tasksel installed 1159 packages, not files but packages. Is there a simple way to delete all those packages and start over?
Just like Debian, tasksel is "everything and the kitchen sink" mode, especially with recommends enabled. The usual Debian solutions apply - i.e. installing only what you actually want.
As for removing things, "start over" depends on where you started from, no? The task-desktop and lxde metapackages might be a good start, or go over the apt / dpkg logs and build a list.
Several times I have tried to install a package only to find there is nothing available, could that be because I opted for 64 bit daedalus rather than 32 bit?
I doubt it, i386 and amd64 contain an almost identical set of packages. More likely you don't have all the sections enabled in your sources...
Kinda hard to guess from here when you don't mention which packages you're talking about though.
The real elephant in this room is, is anyone in the know actually going to answer the OP's question:
A question to system maintainers, should we install the "usrmerge" debian package?
Additionally:
[When] do users of Devuan stable need to convert? How will this be handled?
This:
systems using it will be converted to the new layout when they are upgraded to bookworm.
Clearly doesn't apply to Devuan, and there is nothing in the Daedalus release notes. Do we actually have a plan yet, or are we still at the "futile arguments" stage?
Alright, here we go again...
This is a Devuan-native package, so nobody can blame Debian here.
This bug is trivial to reproduce, was filed over 7 months ago, and has seen absolutely zero action.
This has a very real potential to leave people with an unbootable system, as _intentional_ misbehaviour of 'systemd-detect-virt' causes /etc/kernel/postinst.d/zz-update-grub to skip updating the bootloader.
/etc/kernel/postinst.d/zz-update-grub:
if type systemd-detect-virt >/dev/null 2>&1 &&
systemd-detect-virt --quiet --container; then
exit 0
fi/usr/sbin/systemctl:
case "${0}" in
*hostnamectl|*systemd-detect-virt) exit 0 ;; # always just short-circuit
esacWas this package added to Devuan as a trap?
Did anyone test it?
Where has the maintainer been for the last 7 months?
What the hell is going on?
And we're gonna need xrandr to scale down these 'improved' too fracking small to read resolutions.
Don't get me started on this idiotic HiDPI and "fractional scaling" nonsense everyone is so keen on these days (not least because it's the wayland "way").
We have DPI, a real physical property of the display device to base font scaling on, which would work just swimmingly if X didn't lie and always return 96DPI (which is a bug/regression) and GUI toolkits didn't ignore server DPI because of it.
But instead of patching the bug and fixing the mess of toolkits assuming buggy behaviour and doing their own thing, now we're hardcoding 96DPI all over the place (I'm looking at you, wayland and GTK) and adding expensive (and often blurry or unreliable) global scaling in the compositor...
So instead of selecting a preferred font size and automatically getting correct rendering for the connected display, the user gets fonts sized for an "average" display of 15 years ago and has to poke a "make it bigger" slider like a caveman until it doesn't look too horrible.
This, apparently, is progress. ![]()
re: @steve_v sig_line: Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.
TBH I think I probably stole that from Jamie Zawinski. It's been so true for so long I forget, and it seems to be becoming ever more so as time goes on.
Belated credit where it's due if he was indeed the OG.
relying on Debian is coming to an end.
Other problems with Debian aside, I don't think usrmerge is a particularly smart hill to die on.
While the transition is a needless PITA to pander to systemd, it's unlikely to cause serious compatibility problems or affect our ability to not run systemd, and that remains the primary purpose of Devuan as a fork/derivative.
Personally I think it would be wiser to spend energy on solving the "sysvinit scripts going away upstream now systemd is deprecating support" problem (and/or improving openrc / runit etc. support) rather than fighting over usrmerge.
Freedom of choice is a key strength of Linux.
Indeed, and that's my main problem with wayland (and systemd, and almost everything else Redhat-IBM is doing ATM).
It's not that the software is bad, it's the way it's being agressively pushed on users and downstream distributions regardless of whether it or they are ready, by creating dependencies and intentionally breaking compatibility in ways that effectively force the use of the entire RH software stack.
Sentiment to the effect of "this is you wakeup call" "drive adoption" "force users to..." "time is up" "get with the program" etc. are not difficult to find amongst the developers involved, and this further speaks to the idea that Redhat-IBM believes they control enough of GNU/Linux development to dictate terms to other projects, end-users, and the rest of the community.
This is obnoxious, it smacks of corporate interests, and flies in the face of the "bazaar" development model that gave us so much freedom of choice to begin with.
It's not mine, it's just some random script I stole 'cause I'm too lazy to write an evdev test in a more sane language, and it's simple enough for even non snake-charmers to see it's not a bomb ![]()
Readline is set to produce an audible bell? (/etc/inputrc and ~/.inputrc)?
The console bell is something I find incredibly irritating, so while do I know how to kill it with fire I'm probably of rather less use when it comes to the opposite. ![]()
That said, (assuming we're talking about a real hardware pc-speaker here, not pc-speaker emulation) I'd probably start with going through the configuration items (inputrc / xset etc.) and potential permissions issues listed in the usual places. Most of it is biased towards eradicating the bell, but such advice should also work in reverse.
That the 'beep' command works suggests to me that your problem is likely either terminal configuration related, or something (e.g alsa or pulseaudio) is trying to redirect bell output to your sound card.
In the alsa case, IIRC that's controlled by e.g. SND_HDA_INPUT_BEEP and SND_HDA_INPUT_BEEP_MODE in the kernel config. As for pulse... Don't use, don't know, sorry.
Ed. Out of interest, does this beep?
#!/usr/bin/env python
"""Beep PC Speaker using Linux evdev API.
To make /dev/input/by-path/platform-pcspkr-event-spkr device available, run:
root# modprobe pcspkr
"""
import ctypes
import math
import os
import time
EV_SND = 0x12 # linux/input-event-codes.h
SND_TONE = 0x2 # ditto
time_t = suseconds_t = ctypes.c_long
class Timeval(ctypes.Structure):
_fields_ = [('tv_sec', time_t), # seconds
('tv_usec', suseconds_t)] # microseconds
class InputEvent(ctypes.Structure):
_fields_ = [('time', Timeval),
('type', ctypes.c_uint16),
('code', ctypes.c_uint16),
('value', ctypes.c_int32)]
frequency = 440 # Hz, A440 in ISO 16
device = "/dev/input/by-path/platform-pcspkr-event-spkr"
pcspkr_fd = os.open(device, os.O_WRONLY) # root! + modprobe pcspkr
fsec, sec = math.modf(time.time()) # current time
ev = InputEvent(time=Timeval(tv_sec=int(sec), tv_usec=int(fsec * 1000000)),
type=EV_SND,
code=SND_TONE,
value=frequency)
os.write(pcspkr_fd, ev) # start beep
try:
time.sleep(0.2) # 200 milliseconds
finally:
ev.value = 0 # stop
os.write(pcspkr_fd, ev)Uhh, why would you even contemplate that without backing up the system first?
... Thanks for being a proverbial canary though, I guess. I stand by my "good and ready" statement above. ![]()