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#1 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Beowolf » 2020-09-24 17:50:36

Congrats! I had a similar experience switching my 32bit netbook from Fedora to Devuan with an LXQt desktop.  Which desktop and Window manager are you using?

#2 Re: Forum Feedback » Unable to edit any of my own posts » 2020-09-24 16:32:36

blackhole wrote:
Vernon wrote:

What do you mean by vandalizing? Is a poster, regretting some pejorative comment and deleting the contents of their post considered vandalizing by you? Please be specific.

No, "vandalising" as in someone who goes through and systematically clears out all of their posting history.

Thanks for your clarification.

By removing, as you suggested the Delete button, a poster, assuming editing without time limits are restored,  would only have the ability to remove the post contents leaving an empty post. If the previous contents of the empty post were not already quoted in a reply, a Devuan forum visitor could simply paste the thread URL into archive.org if they were curious about the previous post contents.

If archive.org does not contain the thread, this means that no Devuan forum user thought the post valuable enough to take a few seconds and archive the post at
https://web.archive.org/save

A sticky post could be made notifying forum users that post authors have the ability to modify or delete the contents of posts at any time and if they feel that the post is valuable as-is and should be preserved, they should take a couple of seconds and submit the URL to
https://web.archive.org/save

This preserves the the ability of posters to Edit and delete the contents of posts at any time and allows the Devuan community and even casual visitors of the Devuan forum to determine which posts are valuable enough to preserve for posterity.

This also adheres to the Devuan administrators stated goals of

  • A community driven forum

  • Freedom

  • No additional Forum administrative tasks

Does this address your concern about a forum member deleting all their posts depriving other forum members of content potentially useful to Devuan users?

#3 Re: Forum Feedback » Unable to edit any of my own posts » 2020-09-23 16:31:14

blackhole wrote:

You can argue endlessly over how a forum is administered, but when all is said and done - they "administer" and you do not.  Far from being about "freedom and democracy", most web forums are in fact "dictatorships", operated by individuals, or groups who will tolerate your presence as long as they have want to - but they don't have to, nor do they have to make any changes to policy to suit your own personal preferences.

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly and have not stated anything contrary. However, just as the forum administrators have the right to administer their forum the way they want, I have the right to continue to highlight how making secret editing policy changes which were not asked for by the community are not consistent with their stated goals of Freedom and a  Community driven forum - at least as long as the site administrators give me that right.


blackhole wrote:

...
Anyway... without a post edit/revision history feature (a la vBulletin), I think it's reasonable to establish a time limit, but I really don't see the case for any secrecy.  I would also second the suggestion of removal of the delete button altogether.

I think removal of the delete button is a reasonable compromise as long as unlimited time limits for edits were restored. Posters could still remove the contents of their posts via edit leaving an empty post.

blackhole wrote:

24 hours seems the most reasonable amount of time for edits.

Well here we disagree. 24 hours is not enough time for a poster to mark an issue solved nor is it enough time for me, at least to complete my posts and correct all my typos and grammatical errors.

blackhole wrote:

It will greatly reduce the kind of impact from a disgruntled member "vandalisng" things, but without restricting members from making reasonable edits.

What do you mean by vandalizing? Is a poster, regretting some pejorative comment and deleting the contents of their post considered vandalizing by you? Please be specific.

blackhole wrote:

In my opinion, it is better to state it clearly - and not base any policy on theoretical trolls "gaming" the system.  I would add that any policy based on trolls, or "countermeasures", which are aimed at troublemakers, but which affect and perhaps alienate the majority of ordinary/decent forums users are not good policies.

0.02

Agree


Based on the response of the Manjaro community to their administrators losing many of their posts due to no backups and then instituting radical Forum changes, the critical and direct responses to the Devuan Forum administrators instituting secret policy changes should not have been unexpected.

#4 Re: Forum Feedback » Unable to edit any of my own posts » 2020-09-23 05:29:11

golinux wrote:

You are so busy blustering and demanding, you really didn't think that through, did you. A time limit would only be a "secret" until it was triggered, then it wouldn't be a secret anymore would it. LOL! And if it's never triggered, what does it matter?  You just want to latch on to anything to argue and demand.  That energy coming from someone who has been here only about 2 months is quite out of sync with this peaceful, collaborative project and disrespectful of the hours of love we have poured into Devuan since the fork.

(golinux wishes this forum had an ignore feature)

Obviously a secret is only a secret until it is revealed. The problem is that you propose an editing time limit as a secret in the first place. I and other users would have this sword of Damocles hanging above us wondering when this editing time limit would kick in. I have taken more than a day to complete posts. It's important for at least me, to know how much editing time I have.

Again, your penchant towards secrecy and authoritarianism seem contrary to the stated goals of Devuan being about freedom.

#5 Re: Forum Feedback » Unable to edit any of my own posts » 2020-09-23 03:03:57

golinux wrote:
Vernon wrote:
golinux wrote:

The reaction to the current option sends a message that should be heeded.  My suggestion would be to experiment with the edit timeout window starting at X number of months/days (to be collectively decided and undisclosed).

Why undisclosed?

Because that's the only way to insure that the outcome will be completely random and not engineered by someone with an axe to grind.

Everyone has an axe to grind. My axe is called Freedom and Openness. Based on your advocacy of post editing time limits and keeping those limits secret, your axe is apparently called something quite different - authoritarianism and secrecy perhaps?

golinux wrote:
Vernon wrote:
golinux wrote:

Then wait and see if anyone notices.

So, sort of like when you complain to a Debian package manager about only supporting systemd and they reply lets see if anyone notices?

Nothing like that if you read the above.  That's just how I would do it to make the community response completely unbiased.  Not saying it will be done that way.


Don't see how this is fundamentally different from Debian making some packages systemd only and not telling users which ones they are to see who would notice. Freedom and Openness are fundamental principles to be adhered to, not experimented with.

golinux wrote:
Vernon wrote:

One excellent point that you made is to figure out what happens when an initial post is Deleted rather than just Edited. Does this only Delete the initial post or all the other follow-up posts as well?

Deletion of an initial post should only be allowed if there are no responses, IMO.  That's the way the Debian forum does it.  I posted a link about that a few posts up...

  1. Return things to the way they were with no time limits on editing and deletion of posts and inform users that they can archive any Devuan Forum threads they deem important at https://web.archive.org/save

    • Adheres to Freedom and Openness Principles

      • Allows the community to determine which threads are important to archive

      • Allows posters the freedom to edit and delete their posts

    • No additional Forum system administration requirements

Your proposal impinges on Freedom and Openness and results in additional Forum System Administration.

#6 Re: Forum Feedback » Unable to edit any of my own posts » 2020-09-22 21:51:19

golinux wrote:

The reaction to the current option sends a message that should be heeded.  My suggestion would be to experiment with the edit timeout window starting at X number of months/days (to be collectively decided and undisclosed).

Why undisclosed?

golinux wrote:

Then wait and see if anyone notices.

So, sort of like when you complain to a Debian package manager about only supporting systemd and they reply lets see if anyone notices?

One excellent point that you made is to figure out what happens when an initial post is Deleted rather than just Edited. Does this only Delete the initial post or all the other follow-up posts as well?

#7 Re: Forum Feedback » Unable to edit any of my own posts » 2020-09-22 21:26:53

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
Vernon wrote:

I don't see the communal loss of "idiots" editing or deleting their own posts. If anything, I would think we should be happy when the "idiots" clean up their own garbage just as I am happy when a litterer picks up their trash.

Yes but what about if somebody who has made valuable contributions is sufficiently annoyed that they start to vandalise their posts? It does happen.

If someone in the community feels a thread is valuable, they should submit it to archive.org. This can be done by anyone - not just the post owner and doesn't induce any added forum administrative burden. The stealth change of editing timeouts and the comment about possibly removing this forum has prompted me to submit a variety of Devuan forum threads which I may find useful in the future to archive.org - including this one

https://web.archive.org/web/20200920170 … hp?id=3705

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

[ Especially with me around to piss people off big_smile

People should be centered enough to not get pissed off at what somebody says. I am amazed at your energy to help people on this forum even though you apparently don't use Devuan as your daily driver. Although I don't always agree with you, I think you are an great asset to this community.

I feel that having a free (as in freedom) and vibrant forum is crucial to the success of a project. For instance, one of the reasons I choose RaspberryPi single board computers instead of more capable boards are due to the RaspberryPi's vibrant community and forums.

#8 Re: Forum Feedback » Unable to edit any of my own posts » 2020-09-22 12:58:50

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

@Vernon, firstly I don't think a discussion site becomes a wiki site merely by claiming that it is one.

In parenthesis, there is work in progress towards a Devuan wiki site, and that should hopefully cater for those kinds of contributions. At that time we might even find or proclaim that a discussion site is an uninteresting extra and close it down, or we might not, and continue.

Of course closing down this discussion site is your prerogative which would prove your critics correct that Devuan is more about tantrums than freedom.

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

Secondly, a suggestion that implies more administrator work is only taken seriously (by me) if the suggester also at the same time volunteer for taking on that work.

Yet you had no problems performing the additional administrative work of changing editing times instead of leaving well enough alone.

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

(Actually, it is due time for this site in full to move into new hands [out of my hands]... but that is a separate discussion)

Agreed.

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

Another secondly, your statement

No one is asking for editing history, just the ability to edit their own posts indefinitely.

doesn't fare well in a semantic analysis. Specifically, "edit their own posts indefinitely" is an example of "editing history".

This is what is typically meant by an editing history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti … on=history

I guess when you stated "editing history" you meant changing history. I apologize for my confusion.

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

I am guessing that you rather want to suggest that noone will, if editing is allowed, change their posts in a "bad way" with respect to the interest of the community.

Of course not. There will always be people that will use things in way that someone thinks is bad. Should Devuan be shut down as well because it could be used by someone in a bad way - commit a crime for example?

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

Or perhaps more likely, that you want to suggest the benefit of allowing such editing well outweighs the risk of communal loss by (a few) idiots "misbehaving".

Exactly - except I don't see the communal loss of "idiots" editing or deleting their own posts. If anything, I would think we should be happy when the "idiots" clean up their own garbage just as I am happy when a litterer picks up their trash.

#9 Re: Forum Feedback » Unable to edit any of my own posts » 2020-09-21 19:53:15

golinux wrote:

while not having the ability to delete an entire thread which I assume deleting the first post would do.

I apologize for not understanding the distinction between Delete and Edit. In fact, I didn't realize until just now that there was a Delete button. I thought the person clicked on the Edit button and deleted the post contents leaving an empty post - not clicking the Delete button.

I would remove the Delete button entirely.
Delete Button

This would address your concern about someone deleting a post and deleting an entire thread. So can we just eliminate the Delete button and go back to the previous indefinite editing timeout policy?

#10 Re: Forum Feedback » Unable to edit any of my own posts » 2020-09-21 16:10:08

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

At present we administer this forum as a "public discussion forum".

As a matter of contrast, this site is (was) not intended to be a "personal blogs site" or "dokumentation site" (aka wiki), although a number of threads are laid up more like such than as public discussions.

Whatever the initial intent, that's exactly what this site is now - a documentation site aka wiki.
Devuan Wiki

Things don't always turn out the way we intend smile

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

And at least in my mind, "editing history" is not a feature of a storage of public dicussions.

No one is asking for editing history, just the ability to edit their own posts indefinitely. Rather than limiting everyone's ability to edit their own posts because of the perceived transgression of one user deleting their posts, I have suggested alternatives.

Vernon wrote:
Alternatives to Time Limits
  • Quote posts you are replying to. Even if the original poster modifies or deletes a post, the post is still in the quoted reply

  • Use rdiff-backup to take daily snapshots of your forum.  rdiff-backup  is like a version control system for files and only stores deltas for text files like CVS. If a post gets deleted, it can be restored with  rdiff-backup. Note that  rdiff-backup  works on many different file systems and platforms including MAC OSX

  • Submit a discussion thread URL to archive.org.

Do you have any objections or comments to these suggestions?

#11 Re: Forum Feedback » Unable to edit any of my own posts » 2020-09-20 15:55:51

Edit: Updated with archive.org suggestion

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

Thanks. Yes. It looks like a code bug; that the edit code picks up the topic's timestamp rather than the post's timestamp.
This might have been fixed now by my spurios replacing of a 't' with a 'p'; otherwise it'll require thought.

Thanks. I have now been able to edit my post.

Reasons to allow unlimited time for editing.
  • Posted issues take an indeterminate time to solve. By setting an edit time limit, you don't allow posters to change a topic subject to [solved]

  • I am a very poor typist and make many typos and grammatical errors which I may not notice until days later when reviewing my posts. And yes, I do like to go back and review my posts and admire them smile

  • I may discover additional  issues that I should have discussed originally in a HOWTO days later or weeks later. Edit timeouts could prevent me from updating the HOWTO

Alternatives to Time Limits
  • Quote posts you are replying to. Even if the original poster modifies or deletes a post, the post is still in the quoted reply

  • Use rdiff-backup to take daily snapshots of your forum.  rdiff-backup  is like a version control system for files and only stores deltas for text files like CVS. If a post gets deleted, it can be restored with  rdiff-backup. Note that  rdiff-backup  works on many different file systems and platforms including MAC OSX

  • Submit a discussion thread URL to archive.org.

#12 Re: Forum Feedback » Unable to edit any of my own posts » 2020-09-20 03:22:16

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

The timeout is a day, or 86400 seconds, since the creation of the post.

@Vernon, it shouldn't have stopped you from editing that post so I'm not sure what is happening there.

Still can't edit my post and it has been less than a day. Here are the screenshots.

Post

Edit Attempt

Does this help you figure out what is happening? Note that I can edit posts on this topic. Are there different edit timeout settings for each subject?

#13 Re: Forum Feedback » Unable to edit any of my own posts » 2020-09-19 21:15:46

golinux wrote:

Ralph has been tweaking the timeout limits on editing and deleting posts

Are timeouts set on a per forum basis? I can still edit my post on this forum made over an hour a go (Forum Feedback) but couldn't edit

https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=24754#p24754

less than two minutes after I posted it.

Regardless, any timeout changes should be published so as not to catch posters by surprise.

#14 Forum Feedback » Unable to edit any of my own posts » 2020-09-19 19:44:20

Vernon
Replies: 56

Hi, I just tried to edit post
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=24754#p24754

and received

    Logged in as Vernon Last visit: Today 15:36:52 

    Topics: Posted | New | Active | Unanswered 

Info

You do not have permission to access this page.

message. Has something changed?

Update: I can edit this post but none of my others.

#15 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [SOLVED] Bluetooth not working » 2020-09-19 19:35:04

Danielsan wrote:

Sorry I had a long reply but I messed up with Firefox and lost everything...

I used the bluetoothctl command to activate the discoverability of the bluetooth and then I was able to connect to my headphone with the Blueman applet.

1. bluetoothctl
2. discovarable on
3. scan on (to test it)
4. quit

That's it...

Your steps are incomplete. First, you want to make yourself root by issuing the su command.
The bluetoothctl list command should give you something like the following output.

Controller 5C:F3:70:9B:90:CB BlueZ 5.50 [default]

If you see something like the above, then you are good to go. Issue the command bluetoothctl. While in bluetoothctl, issue the following commands.

  • scan on

    • Now put you Bluetooth headphone in pairing mode

    • After a few seconds, you should see something like
      [NEW] Device 50:BC:96:9D:DE:61 MyHeadphoneBrand

    • Copy the Bluetooth MAC address. For this example it is 50:BC:96:9D:DE:61 but your Bluetooth headphone MAC address will be different

  • pair xx:xx:xx:xx:xx. Substitute your Bluetooth headphone MAC address that you obtained in the previous step for xx:xx:xx:xx:xx.

  • connect xx:xx:xx:xx:xx. Substitute your Bluetooth headphone MAC address that you used in the previous step for xx:xx:xx:xx:xx.

  • trust xx:xx:xx:xx:xx. Substitute your Bluetooth headphone MAC address that you used in the previous step for xx:xx:xx:xx:xx.

  • scan off

  • exit

Now, your Bluetooth headphone will automatically connect to your Devuan box every time you power on your Bluetooth headphone. No need to use any applet.

#16 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Choosing an email client » 2020-09-09 20:10:47

Altoid wrote:

Hello:

Vernon wrote:

... Thunderbird apt-get install thunderbird for a graphical e-mail client.
... Alpine apt-get install alpine. as a text based e-mail client.

...

All the boxes seemed to check: it was a similar front end and the Sylpheed-Claws FAQ indicated that it had what to me was a deal-breaker PMail feature: selective mail download.

...

Sounds like you are still using POP3 to retrieve your mail. If so, way past time to switch to IMAP. With IMAP, e-mail clients like Alpine only download the mail headers and not the e-mail contents. The e-mail doesn't get downloaded until you try to view it. This behaver can also be achieved in Thunderbird by unticking the Synchronization & Storage->Keep messages in all folders for the account on this computer. This is the way I run Thunderbird and messages only get downloaded when I click on them.

#17 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Wifi disabled on boot – wlan soft blocked, how to determine why? » 2020-09-03 22:16:41

orbanbalage wrote:

Installed Beowulf with XFCE.

Enabled Wifi adapter in wicd, connected to network and set to always connect.

However after reboot the wireless adapter is always disabled. I am able to turn it on in wicd, or remove the soft block with rfkill; but how to troubleshoot the reason?

When I installed Beowulf with LXQt, connman was installed. I was having the same issue as you until I ran apt-get purge connman as root.

#18 Re: Freedom Hacks » package usbmuxd - used for IPhone Tethering » 2020-09-03 20:36:05

aladedragon wrote:
Vernon wrote:

...you can just delete /lib/udev/rules.d/39-usbmuxd.rules and start usbmuxd from your init....

Hello, can you give me and example of how did you start usbmuxd from your init/rc.local?

Why are you trying to run usbmuxd from rc.local? Did you follow the Iphone Tethering HOWTO here and are experiencing some problems?

#19 Re: Off-topic » (solved) grub custom menu for other distro using F2FS filesystem. » 2020-09-01 15:50:19

HevyDevy wrote:

After doing some digging, looks like i may be right. grub2 version 2.04 brings support for f2fs but that is currently in testing.

Off topic but I once tried f2fs on a micro-SD card mounted on one of my OpenWRT devices  Found it extremely slow, CPU intensive and therefore unusable. Switched back to ext4. Have been running both RaspberryPis and micro-routers out of ext4 formatted SD/micro-SD cards for years without any issues. Note that most smart phones have a lot more horse power than my micro router with a MIPS 260Mhz 32 bit CPU and 32Mb of RAM.

#20 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave » 2020-08-30 18:27:51

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
Vernon wrote:

Dell Vostro A90 netbook running Devuan Buster with LXQt

So that's a 32-bit system with 1GiB of RAM then? Not really comparable to my (64-bit) ThinkPad E485 with 16GiB of RAM — Linux eats all the memory it can and with 16GiB available usage shoots up in comparison to a 1GiB system.

It has 2GiB of RAM. I should have put that in my previous post. I don't have any 64bit machines with Devuan yet.

#21 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave » 2020-08-29 19:35:54

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
Vernon wrote:

What command(s) did you use to get these number?

https://github.com/pixelb/ps_mem

First, thanks for pointing to the ps_mem tool. I was unaware of it. When I use ps_mem on my Devuan Buster netbook with 8 Firefox tabs open, I get

 16.8 MiB +   7.4 MiB =  24.1 MiB       WebExtensions
 27.1 MiB +  18.6 MiB = 145.7 MiB       firefox-esr
129.7 MiB +  67.3 MiB = 197.0 MiB       Web Content (8)

Note that the Firefox memory usage on my Devuan system is less than even the memory usage for Badwolf on your Alpine system. Perhaps its time to switch to Devuan smile

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
 53.6 MiB +  71.8 MiB = 125.3 MiB       badwolf
115.5 MiB + 170.6 MiB = 286.1 MiB       WebKitNetworkProcess (8)
371.3 MiB + 500.0 MiB = 871.3 MiB       WebKitWebProcess (8)
947.4 MiB +   1.2 GiB =   2.1 GiB       firefox (12)

My test details.

Complete ps_mem output.

# ps_mem 
 Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used       Program

164.0 KiB +  20.5 KiB = 184.5 KiB       anacron
236.0 KiB +  39.5 KiB = 275.5 KiB       rtkit-daemon
256.0 KiB +  26.5 KiB = 282.5 KiB       init
260.0 KiB +  35.5 KiB = 295.5 KiB       cron
412.0 KiB +  35.5 KiB = 447.5 KiB       pcscd
520.0 KiB +  21.5 KiB = 541.5 KiB       ssh-agent
504.0 KiB + 115.0 KiB = 619.0 KiB       dbus-launch (2)
472.0 KiB + 166.5 KiB = 638.5 KiB       xfconfd
524.0 KiB + 147.5 KiB = 671.5 KiB       agent
236.0 KiB + 478.0 KiB = 714.0 KiB       saned (2)
640.0 KiB + 145.5 KiB = 785.5 KiB       gvfs-mtp-volume-monitor
612.0 KiB + 187.5 KiB = 799.5 KiB       at-spi-bus-launcher
456.0 KiB + 400.5 KiB = 856.5 KiB       su
408.0 KiB + 456.0 KiB = 864.0 KiB       avahi-daemon (2)
676.0 KiB + 193.5 KiB = 869.5 KiB       at-spi2-registryd
568.0 KiB + 329.0 KiB = 897.0 KiB       getty (6)
792.0 KiB + 118.5 KiB = 910.5 KiB       gvfs-goa-volume-monitor
908.0 KiB + 143.5 KiB =   1.0 MiB       gvfsd-fuse
852.0 KiB + 213.5 KiB =   1.0 MiB       gvfs-gphoto2-volume-monitor
572.0 KiB + 497.5 KiB =   1.0 MiB       dbus
688.0 KiB + 409.5 KiB =   1.1 MiB       gvfsd
908.0 KiB + 452.5 KiB =   1.3 MiB       gvfs-afc-volume-monitor
  1.2 MiB + 137.5 KiB =   1.4 MiB       xscreensaver
908.0 KiB + 542.5 KiB =   1.4 MiB       gvfsd-trash
  1.6 MiB +  45.5 KiB =   1.7 MiB       elogind-daemon
  1.6 MiB + 112.5 KiB =   1.7 MiB       bluetoothd
  1.7 MiB +  65.5 KiB =   1.8 MiB       rsyslogd
  1.6 MiB + 197.5 KiB =   1.8 MiB       udevd
  1.4 MiB + 512.5 KiB =   1.9 MiB       upowerd
  1.8 MiB + 217.5 KiB =   2.0 MiB       polkitd
  1.5 MiB + 799.5 KiB =   2.3 MiB       gvfs-udisks2-volume-monitor
  2.0 MiB + 421.5 KiB =   2.4 MiB       dhclient
  2.0 MiB + 434.0 KiB =   2.4 MiB       dbus-daemon (4)
  1.6 MiB + 912.0 KiB =   2.5 MiB       lightdm (2)
  1.4 MiB +   1.2 MiB =   2.6 MiB       bash (2)
  2.0 MiB + 713.5 KiB =   2.7 MiB       cups-browsed
  2.5 MiB + 545.5 KiB =   3.0 MiB       cupsd
  3.2 MiB + 501.5 KiB =   3.7 MiB       wpa_supplicant
  3.7 MiB + 358.5 KiB =   4.0 MiB       ModemManager
  2.6 MiB +   1.8 MiB =   4.4 MiB       lxqt-policykit-agent
  2.7 MiB +   1.7 MiB =   4.4 MiB       lxqt-globalkeysd
  2.7 MiB +   1.8 MiB =   4.4 MiB       lxqt-session
  3.9 MiB + 631.5 KiB =   4.5 MiB       udisksd
  2.5 MiB +   2.0 MiB =   4.6 MiB       lxqt-notificationd
  4.3 MiB +   1.7 MiB =   6.0 MiB       nm-tray
  5.5 MiB + 743.5 KiB =   6.2 MiB       NetworkManager
  3.7 MiB +   2.6 MiB =   6.3 MiB       lxqt-powermanagement
  6.2 MiB + 209.5 KiB =   6.4 MiB       colord
  6.6 MiB +   1.1 MiB =   7.7 MiB       xfwm4
  5.6 MiB +   2.8 MiB =   8.4 MiB       lxqt-runner
  6.3 MiB +   4.0 MiB =  10.2 MiB       qterminal
 11.9 MiB + 971.5 KiB =  12.9 MiB       pulseaudio
  9.0 MiB +   4.3 MiB =  13.3 MiB       pcmanfm-qt
 13.8 MiB +   1.1 MiB =  14.9 MiB       applet.py
 14.2 MiB +   5.2 MiB =  19.4 MiB       lxqt-panel
 16.8 MiB +   7.4 MiB =  24.1 MiB       WebExtensions
 20.6 MiB +   6.9 MiB =  27.5 MiB       Xorg
127.1 MiB +  18.6 MiB = 145.7 MiB       firefox-esr
129.7 MiB +  67.3 MiB = 197.0 MiB       Web Content (8)
---------------------------------
                        583.4 MiB
=================================

#22 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave » 2020-08-28 21:53:33

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
MiyoLinux wrote:

BadWolf

Hmm, interesting. It's quite nice and a bit lighter than firefox-esr in my Alpine system:

 53.6 MiB +  71.8 MiB = 125.3 MiB       badwolf
115.5 MiB + 170.6 MiB = 286.1 MiB       WebKitNetworkProcess (8)
371.3 MiB + 500.0 MiB = 871.3 MiB       WebKitWebProcess (8)
947.4 MiB +   1.2 GiB =   2.1 GiB       firefox (12)

Same tabs open in both, a saving of ~800MiB is quite significant smile

But I do think FF has a memory leak somewhere...

Questions:

  • What was the actual number of tabs you had open in each browser?

  • Were the websites in each tab identical for each browser

  • Were some Web sites using JavaScript/HTML5/WebSockets or other memory/CPU intensive operations?

  • What command(s) did you use to get these number?

Thanks.

#23 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave » 2020-08-28 16:35:52

LU344928 wrote:

That memory leak has plagued FF for years. Why it's not fixed after all this time is bewildering.

Probably because no one who complains about it has submitted a patch to fix it.

#24 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave » 2020-08-27 01:50:15

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Interesting paper analysing the information transmitted by various browsers, including Brave:

https://www.scss.tcd.ie/Doug.Leith/pubs … rivacy.pdf

I skimmed through this article and have the following comments.

  1. Used  “out  of  the  box”  with  its  default  settings

    • Why default settings? If the browser can be made more "secure" with non-default settings, list them and tell us if there are any drawbacks to non-default settings. Comparing default browser settings has limited value - especially to a community like this who are not averse to changing default settings

  2. It is important to note that transmission of user data to backend servers is not intrinsically a privacy intrusion.

    • The author seems unaware of modern browser fingerprinting techniques which is perhaps why the author references articles from 2002 and 2007 for this statement

  3. B. Viewing Content Of Encrypted Web Connections

    • Here, the author describes the man in the middle attack used to determine what data browsers are sending. With Firefox, this could have been more completely determined by simply typing in about:config and searching for Google, for example. Firefox is not trying to be sneaky about anything and you can change most default behaviors

    .

I think a better article is here which includes links to browser fingerprinting detection sites. I disagree with some of the mitigation steps in this article like using security plugins, using TOR, and using the Brave browser, but its conclusion is sound - Browser Fingerprinting is a difficult-to-counter way websites can track our Internet use without our permission and without leaving any evidence on our computers. So far, there are no perfect solutions to the problem available,..

Finally, it is important to remember, the more non-mainstream a browser you use, the easier it is to fingerprint.

#25 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave » 2020-08-26 04:07:14

golinux wrote:

Has anyone given ungoogled chromium a spin?

Tried running the binary and got version `GLIBC_2.28' not found

Didn't investigate further because I only use Chromium for web sites that don't support Firefox and Jitsi. For some reason, I don't know whether it is due to Firefox Javascript or WebRTC implementation, Jitsi is much more stable with Chromium.

One of the many reasons I prefer Firefox is its Reader mode which I believe is only found on one other browser - Safari.

Normal web site rendering
Normal

After clicking on the Reader icon next to the URL
Firefox Reader Mode

Notice that the page is now rendered like a Book Reader and all the cruft is gone.

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