GTK2 Removed from Arch's Repositories

brocashelm · 2025-11-12 23:39:52

Welcome to the Unthemable, Bloated, Stinky Foot Toolkit Horror Show. Soon enough, we'll force Wayland down your throat by way of GTK5.

We can only blame MATE and Xfce developers AND users for not forking/improving GTK2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn3Aeen1snA

HardSun · 2025-11-12 23:49:49

artix is keeping gtk2 around atleast. For as long as they build without much patching.

the next best thing is going suckless and do everything in the terminal.

blackhole · Yesterday 08:10:33

We can only blame MATE and Xfce developers AND users for not forking/improving GTK2.

Always easy to blame those people who presumably should have developed and maintained 23 year old software for free...

Calamity · Yesterday 09:53:34

Blaming the victim is Evil's standard defense mechanism. It attracts all attention away from the perpetrators and back onto the receiving end.

A classic trait of psychopaths and narcissists, what else can be said...

brocashelm · Yesterday 12:28:40

The problem is that the current "solutions" are not reasonably sound for a lot of regular people who just want to use their computers without stuff getting in their way. Suggesting tiling WMs or doing everything in the terminal is like picking between burning to death and drowning.

That, and shifting the blame on the person offering some constructive criticism to go do the project maintainer's job compounds the whole enshittification aspect of FLOSS. There will never be a "Year of the Linux Desktop" until people stop allowing nonsense to affect code.

HardSun · Yesterday 13:18:28

why dont you do something about it then brocashelm.
my solution is to scale back the use of gui's.

tux_99 · Yesterday 15:06:12

What is this mania of late of removing older stuff just for the sake of it?
I mean I can understand removing it when it no longer builds and would need major adaptation to build with current tool chains but until then there is no reason to remove things.
I have the impression that in the last few years more and more people have become unable to cope with variety and have OCD to reduce choice as much as possible (I'm not just referring to the Linux world where Gnome and GTK4 are prime examples, I noticed this in many aspects of life).

I don't know if that's due to the widespread smartphone addiction (or the ever increasing EM fields we are exposed to due to all wireless stuff) that has somehow affected peoples brains or due to something else.

Last edited by tux_99 (Yesterday 15:11:20)

golinux · Yesterday 15:50:21

tux_99 wrote:

What is this mania of late of removing older stuff just for the sake of it?

We are like "cattle" being herded into the abattoir of commerce and control to enrich the rich and eliminate personal freedom.

brocashelm · Yesterday 16:52:56

HardSun wrote:

why dont you do something about it then brocashelm.

I already did. By using Xfce 4.12 DEB files on Daedalus.

g4sra · Yesterday 17:17:59

Here is another concerning trend

git grep -l '\<systemd\>' linux-stable.git/Documentation/ | wc -l
23

Twenty three kernel documents referencing (IBM/RedHat's lets not forget the commercial interest source from whence) systemd.
As far as I am aware only one would be legitimate, SYSFS.

tux_99 · Yesterday 18:10:46

That's probably their (IBM/Redhat) ultimate wet dream, make the kernel depend on systemd...

blackhole · Yesterday 18:23:41

No idea what any of that has to do with the deprecation and obsolescence of gtk2 - and it's removal from Arch Linux repositories.

It does mean, however, that GTK 2 has reached the end of its life. We will do one final 2.x release in the coming days, and we encourage everybody to port their GTK 2 applications to GTK 3 or 4.

https://blog.gtk.org/2020/12/16/gtk-4-0/

It's very simple: When gnome 2 was declared EOL by the gnome project, people stepped up, forked it and that's why Mate exists. You also have projects such as Xlibre and of course Devuan... without someone doing the work, it doesn't happen. You will get the same script on the OpenBSD mailing lists - one of the least corporate FOSS projects there is.

The writing was on the wall for gtk2 with regards to systemd embracing projects such as Arch.... so this thread really is non news.

Last edited by blackhole (Yesterday 18:37:51)

spliskin · Today 11:58:08

@brocashelm

That, and shifting the blame on the person offering some constructive criticism to go do the project maintainer's job compounds the whole enshittification aspect of FLOSS. There will never be a "Year of the Linux Desktop" until people stop allowing nonsense to affect code.

I know this much, over the time I've developed software, you only have your spare time to work on OSS projects. Most people are not willing to fund such endeavors. Doesn't matter what the project does. Until people are willing to speak with their wallets, nothing will change in this regard.

You can't expect people to willingly spend their time and expenses on projects unless they're paid to do it. That's just reality. Gnome has funding from many sources but those sources tie them into plans. GTK2 was improved, which is how you got GTK3. Doesn't mean anyone liked it. Their supporters that stuck around do though, and that's what the driving force is.

There are solutions. People just have to face reality before it'll change.

blackhole · Today 14:15:40

I must have missed the "constructive criticism".

There will probably never be a "Year of the Linux Desktop", because desktops and by extension laptops which run a consumer OS such as Windows or macOS are developed for profit first and foremost and to hold a users hand through normal usage, installtion of software, configuration and setup. That is to say that they are designed and engineered to meet the demands of a customer - and underlying complexity isn't a problem for such OS so long as the UI and getting things installed and working is "easy". The large teams develping such an OS are well paid and the people using it almost always pay for it, either with their money or their data. This model doesn't translate to FOSS software developed by volunteers, who don't service customers at all.

A "free" OS is a whole different ball game: No one is going to develop "Desktop Linux" completely for free - for people who want a Windows/macOS experience, if there are no rewards for doing so - which is why it hasn't happened to date.

Of the projects making the biggest strides in that direction, such as systemd, gnome, KDE, wayland, etc - they have attracted criticism from certain quarters for particular design decisions, increased complexity and/or corporate funding/influence.

Undortunately any efforts towards Linux on the desktop nowadays will be corporate backed aside from simple Window managers. There is the conundrum. To avoid this move away from UNIX style KISS philosophy, means embracing simpler software such as window managers and using the terminal - you can't have it both ways... well you can, but you need to get the skills to do it yourself.

Last edited by blackhole (Today 14:24:35)

Calamity · Today 16:22:13

They may eventually get to the terminal and the WMs as well, should they decide it gives people too much freedom to operate outside of their paradigm.

I don't think that even Windows and MacOS are end-user-oriented anymore. The days when they tried to please the average Joe or Jane are now gone. Gone are the eyecandies like the bubbly Aqua, the Aero transparency, the Bliss wallpapers and the like. Nowadays it's the wonderful choice between concentrated Bleach or Charcoal for your eyes, coupled with the most depressing and confusing GUIs ever possible on the market that no one could have imagined in their worst nightmares just a couple decades ago. Or the endless updates that cause your devices to malfunction or lock you out of your computer. Or outright destroy your data. Windows is no longer trying to hide the fact that it's been designed as a data collection and advertizing platform all along. MacOS maybe less so, due to the somewhat more niche audience, but the story is pretty much the same either way...

I don't believe it's all just about money. Of course the lack of material compensation and appreciation of another's work plays a role, but I feel that something much more important was forgotten. The whole idea of sharing and mutual support seems to have practically evaporated from the spirit of Linux community (and many other communities as well). Back in the day people seemed to have a much clearer grasp that corporatocracy etc. was a rotten game all along, and were willing to put their efforts and resources in a completely different direction, were willing to help and share with each other unconditionally, finding more and more kindred souls along the way and knowing their work will not be in vain, which allowed things to prosper. And in the golden age (the 2000s?) things were going along quite nicely. And it was not about any political ideology either, as we see quite well nowadays that all of them turn out to be one and the same, none of the -isms were meant for anything good. (Even Open Source was not fully about it, as today we see it everywhere but it doesn't really solve anything.) Perhaps back then people simply knew how to avoid that, and how to work best in each other's interests rather than trying to adjust themselves to something that's only going to bring more ruin and suffering. Today it's easy to acknowledge that we are on the wrong path, but we have lost the sight of the right path altogether...

tux_99 · Today 16:43:00

Calamity wrote:

The whole idea of sharing and mutual support seems to have practically evaporated from the spirit of Linux community

I would say that it still exists, it only has been marginalized by the corporate takeover which newer generations of Linux users aren't really aware of since they didn't experience Linux before the takeover (which has been gradual but relentless).

Also many users that come to Linux from Windows don't have first-hand Unix experience and therefore aren't really looking for a Unix-like system but rather for a Windows-like system without Microsoft, hence the acceptance of systemd and wayland.

Like many early adopters of Linux I got interested in Linux because it was a free Unix-like system for inexpensive PCs, having before had experience with Irix, Solaris and HP-UX at university and at work.

Many of those who switched to Linux more recently have never used any Unix system before, they don't care about the Unix heritage of Linux and this is why the the newer generations of developers are more and more getting rid of the Unix like features of Linux.

Last edited by tux_99 (Today 16:45:34)

spliskin · Today 17:19:58

The whole idea of sharing and mutual support seems to have practically evaporated from the spirit of Linux community (and many other communities as well).

In general it's become vitriolic. Mostly because of social media and fanatic users who support only a single distro or single thing and attack everything else. I don't see it getting any better either.

What is this mania of late of removing older stuff just for the sake of it?

Same as always, NIH here. We don't control that, so here's our replacement that we do control. That's all it ever is

Users feel entitled or demand it. When faced with choices people won't chose to their benefit if it costs them anything. They'll wait until it's too late and then, well, it's too late.

I would rather spend the time to take what's useful OFF of gtk2 than to keep gtk2 running at all. That's where I am at this point.

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#1 2025-11-12 23:39:52

GTK2 Removed from Arch's Repositories

#2 2025-11-12 23:49:49

Re: GTK2 Removed from Arch's Repositories

#3 Yesterday 08:10:33

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#4 Yesterday 09:53:34

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#5 Yesterday 12:28:40

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