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#1 2018-12-13 16:21:09

jeffreyC
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Registered: 2018-12-01
Posts: 5  

At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

In the process of trying to speed it up I was looking at what was actually needed for booting my system and one of the things I noticed was avahi was being loaded, so I looked into if I could remove it. If I do not use something I prefer to remove it rather than disable it, as I know when updates happen configuration files sometimes get overwritten or replaced.

At first I could not understand why removing a dns discovery program would require removing gtk3 but when I found out that avahi was developed by Lennart Poettering it became much clearer.


Everything must depend on everything else so that all the components of the monolith are present.

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#2 2018-12-14 00:15:10

Ron
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Registered: 2018-04-22
Posts: 205  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

I have something on my computer made by Lennart Poettering?  mad  I avoid anything that guy makes.

Can I get more info on how to disable this crap? I have no idea what rcconf is.

Last edited by Ron (2018-12-14 00:15:49)

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#3 2018-12-14 00:31:51

Ron
Member
Registered: 2018-04-22
Posts: 205  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

I am still "fairly" new to Linux. And I'm just a computer user, not a geek (I don't mean that pejoratively). When I have time I'll research it, I guess.

Last edited by Ron (2018-12-14 00:33:48)

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#4 2018-12-14 00:36:21

siva
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Registered: 2018-01-25
Posts: 207  
Website

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

Bruh, google it.  (Or startpage it.)

Last edited by siva (2018-12-14 00:36:57)


the thomos project
thomos support thread
cynwulf wrote: "You should get some more sleep and spend less time on forums."

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#5 2018-12-14 00:39:41

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,710  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

We all have to start somewhere.  But around this crowd if you're going to whine about something it's best to know and understand what you're whining about before making grandiose statements about your preferences.

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#6 2018-12-14 00:41:36

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,710  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

@siva . . . You'd think a quick search would be the first thing to do.  But is sooo much easier to let someone else do it.

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#7 2018-12-14 01:20:38

siva
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Registered: 2018-01-25
Posts: 207  
Website

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

It's a pretty simple manager.  To be fair, I wish I just better understood rc scripts and took the time to manage them better.

Back to the original topic: the plot thickens...

# apt-get remove --purge avahi-daemon
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
  libavahi-core7 libdaemon0 libre2-3
Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them.
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  avahi-daemon* libnss-mdns*
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 59 not upgraded.
After this operation, 386 kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]

I wonder what GTK3 the OP was referring to.

In any case, it did give me an excuse to just uninstall it ^_^


the thomos project
thomos support thread
cynwulf wrote: "You should get some more sleep and spend less time on forums."

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#8 2018-12-14 01:40:58

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,710  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

@siva . . . I got the same result:

The following packages will be REMOVED:
  avahi-daemon* libnss-mdns*

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#9 2018-12-14 22:57:25

aut0exec
Member
Registered: 2018-11-21
Posts: 47  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

siva wrote:

It's a pretty simple manager.  To be fair, I wish I just better understood rc scripts and took the time to manage them better.

lol That's how I feel with systemd.... Init scripts just make so much more sense personally.

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#10 2018-12-15 00:43:45

Ron
Member
Registered: 2018-04-22
Posts: 205  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

golinux wrote:
@siva . . . You'd think a quick search would be the first thing to do.  But is sooo much easier to let someone else do it.

If you go back, you'd see that I did say I'd research it when I have the time. You know, I have a full time job, and a wife and kid that takes quite a bit of my time. I don't live on the computer. I really don't know what I said to warrant such passive aggression. And who was whining? That crack was unwarranted.

Last edited by Ron (2018-12-15 01:04:37)

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#11 2018-12-15 01:18:20

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,710  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

Please try to relax and take it down a notch.  There is no need for drama here . . . or for systemd and Poettering bashing.  Time to move on.

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#12 2018-12-15 01:33:45

siva
Member
Registered: 2018-01-25
Posts: 207  
Website

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

Ron wrote:

golinux wrote:
@siva . . . You'd think a quick search would be the first thing to do.  But is sooo much easier to let someone else do it.

If you go back, you'd see that I did say I'd research it when I have the time. You know, I have a full time job, and a wife and kid that takes quite a bit of my time. I don't live on the computer. I really don't know what I said to warrant such passive aggression. And who was whining? That crack was unwarranted.

All I'm saying is, who controls the rc scripts, controls the universe.  Openbsd has the right idea there imo


the thomos project
thomos support thread
cynwulf wrote: "You should get some more sleep and spend less time on forums."

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#13 2018-12-15 18:20:31

Ron
Member
Registered: 2018-04-22
Posts: 205  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

Thanks siva for sharing your experience with deleting avahi. I also got the same things as you and golinux.

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#14 2019-01-30 12:03:41

cretsiah
Member
Registered: 2019-01-28
Posts: 6  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

probably a bit dated....

but the OP's problem with GTK3  ahavi was maybe a Gnome Desktop Environment thing.

for example the Trinity Desktop Environment has something called Ahavi-TQt in its packages set.

not really knowing what ahavi was I went and looked it up, the impression i got was it was Potterings answer to windows home/ workgroup thing but for linux.

given most of you seemed to have uninstalled it, I was wondering if there were any specific apps/ programs that relied on it.


maybe it was meant as a dirty hack to get around ldap and samba or something?

I remember a few years ago i had trouble with those 2 (at least pretty sure it was ldap) items trying to get a linux system and windows system talking to each other and the printer, i know i ended up giving up on it.

If it was meant for what i said above maybe I could rename it and call it "whats local" PMSL.

Last edited by cretsiah (2019-01-30 12:05:59)

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#15 2019-01-30 12:48:16

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,207  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

Don't feel bad. I've been using linux for 18 years, and I never heard of rcconf. I have heard of sysv-rc-conf, and that's what I use. It allows you to turn services on or off in specific runlevels. The really hard-core geeks use update-rc.d.

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#16 2019-01-30 14:44:35

catprints
Member
Registered: 2016-11-30
Posts: 133  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

Thanks fsmithred for mentioning sysv-rc-conf. I recently learned of rcconf but now have another (more useful for me) choice.
Now I have to learn about run levels...


"The obstacle is the path."

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#17 2019-06-19 07:31:53

czeekaj
Member
Registered: 2019-06-12
Posts: 20  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

I got the same thing as go linux, not many depends there. Only 3 packages. To be fair I don't think I need this network discovery tool smile
Pulse audio however, while it is convenient. Removing it borks XFCE meta package. sad

I was manually changing the rc scripts in the /etc/rcX.d directories.
Than I discovered update-rc.d. Much easier, much faster and everything is in plain text. I don't think I could go back after discovering how simple it is to manage start up.

As for run levels I watched some talks referring to run levels -3. Now your init may have control everything below 0. but everything above that.
UEFI and BIOS.. ext. Have access to the hardware smile.
It's important to get an early start to get into OS. I noticed this when I was using windows. I had a program called Spy Shelter Firewall. If it doesn't start early all the stuff you don't want running will run if it starts before your program. But managing start programs with task manager is a joke. Not sure why they removed sysconfig but that is off topic smile. So lack of Init freedom feels very Windoz to say the least.

Last edited by czeekaj (2019-06-19 07:34:24)

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#18 2019-08-02 09:00:42

crankypuss
Member
Registered: 2018-09-15
Posts: 58  

Re: At first I thought it was insane, but then I saw who was behind it.

jeffreyC wrote:

At first I could not understand why removing a dns discovery program would require removing gtk3 but when I found out that avahi was developed by Lennart Poettering it became much clearer.

Everything must depend on everything else so that all the components of the monolith are present.

Amen, hear-hear, etc... not to imply that i know Lennart Poettering, or have seen all that he's done, or read *any* of his code, but the bit about everything relying on everything else resonates loudly.

Once a system reaches a certain level of complexity, any imperfections in its design are magnified, often to the point where it's just a big mess.  Everything is hooked into everything else.  Take a look at how many libraries get loaded when you fresh-boot linux/devuan.  Or when you run any app for that matter.  To see what i'm talking about, in real life as opposed to some bullshit thought-experiment, proceed as follows:

1. Install ascii, or any other version of linux (since it's an across-the-board performance failure imo), on the oldest, slowest POS system you can lay your hands on, and pick one with a slow-spinning Winchester disk.  Once you have it installed, measure and record (a) fresh-boot time, (b) time to start Firefox (or the slowest big-app you normally use, gimp maybe, something you start often enough to notice differences).

2. Now take out the Winchester disk.  Copy it to an SSD.  Repeat the measurements.  The only thing that has changed is the speed of fetches, therefore the change in measurements is linear with respect to the number of fetches.  Figure it out.  There are way too many libraries. 

You could run similar performance tests using an app that's statically linked, as opposed to one that uses some high-level library.  The results will be the same, maybe more dramatic.  I have an old Acer laptop with a 32-bit Intel, i think it's an N270 but offhand i don't recall.  And i have code that runs as fast on it as it will run on an i7 simply because it doesn't load as many libraries, or in the case of apps like PHP which use includes, the number of includes is analogous to the number of machine-code libraries so it's leveraged, includes *times* hardcode libraries.

Now, once you've tumbled to the *massive* level of interdependencies within linux, regardless of distro, maybe you'll consider just what it would take to fix everything that Lennart Poettering's changes have affected, from what little i understand of git (yeah, i know, i'll git around to learning it Real Soon Now), it should be possible to find out just which modules need to be backed out; pretend it's a trojan intentionally planted by some genius who turns out to have been an idiot, or a hacker from the Evil Empire, or whatever.  The point is to see just how much damage can be done, and where it's been done, whether accidentally and with good intent, or otherwise.

Perhaps i've gone on a ramble here, this blueberry diesel is quite good.  Sometimes a system gets so balled up that the only way to fix it is to replace it on a mass level, ie rewrite the whole thing from scratch.  And when you have a humongous tightly-interdependent system, like a linux distro, the how-to of that can be a trick.

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