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#1 2018-09-15 14:24:12

crankypuss
Member
Registered: 2018-09-15
Posts: 20  

dell xps-13

I have a dell xps-13 and my only internet access is through my cellphone.

A few weeks [months?] ago i attempted to install Devuan.  I'd previously been using Ubuntu-MATE, which i liked in many respects, but systemd was (imo) making startup and shutdown flakey, it often takes 3-5 reboots to get to the login screen, so of course Devuan seemed like a good idea.

I downloaded the iso for devuan-jessie and gave it a shot.  Guess what.  The installer was not built containing the proprietary driver for the Broadcom wifi chip used in the xps-13.  No more laptops with
Broadcom chips for me, i'm going as generic as possible from here on out.

Isn't it possible to build the installer with all known device drivers including the proprietary ones? 

Has this issue been observed/addressed, has anyone installed it on an xps-13 with only wifi internet?

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#2 2018-09-16 18:52:26

crankypuss
Member
Registered: 2018-09-15
Posts: 20  

Re: dell xps-13

> lspci -nnk
00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Broadwell-U Host Bridge -OPI [8086:1604] (rev 09)
	Subsystem: Dell Broadwell-U Host Bridge -OPI [1028:0665]
	Kernel driver in use: bdw_uncore
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Broadwell-U Integrated Graphics [8086:1616] (rev 09)
	DeviceName:  Onboard IGD
	Subsystem: Dell Broadwell-U Integrated Graphics [1028:0665]
	Kernel driver in use: i915
	Kernel modules: i915
00:03.0 Audio device [0403]: Intel Corporation Broadwell-U Audio Controller [8086:160c] (rev 09)
	Subsystem: Dell Broadwell-U Audio Controller [1028:0665]
	Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
	Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel
00:04.0 Signal processing controller [1180]: Intel Corporation Broadwell-U Camarillo Device [8086:1603] (rev 09)
	Subsystem: Dell Broadwell-U Processor Thermal Subsystem [1028:0665]
	Kernel driver in use: proc_thermal
	Kernel modules: processor_thermal_device
00:14.0 USB controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP USB xHCI Controller [8086:9cb1] (rev 03)
	Subsystem: Dell Wildcat Point-LP USB xHCI Controller [1028:0665]
	Kernel driver in use: xhci_hcd
00:16.0 Communication controller [0780]: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP MEI Controller #1 [8086:9cba] (rev 03)
	Subsystem: Dell Wildcat Point-LP MEI Controller [1028:0665]
	Kernel driver in use: mei_me
	Kernel modules: mei_me
00:1b.0 Audio device [0403]: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP High Definition Audio Controller [8086:9ca0] (rev 03)
	Subsystem: Dell Wildcat Point-LP High Definition Audio Controller [1028:0665]
	Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
	Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel
00:1c.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP PCI Express Root Port #1 [8086:9c90] (rev e3)
	Kernel driver in use: pcieport
	Kernel modules: shpchp
00:1c.3 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP PCI Express Root Port #4 [8086:9c96] (rev e3)
	Kernel driver in use: pcieport
	Kernel modules: shpchp
00:1d.0 USB controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP USB EHCI Controller [8086:9ca6] (rev 03)
	Subsystem: Dell Wildcat Point-LP USB EHCI Controller [1028:0665]
	Kernel driver in use: ehci-pci
00:1f.0 ISA bridge [0601]: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP LPC Controller [8086:9cc3] (rev 03)
	Subsystem: Dell Wildcat Point-LP LPC Controller [1028:0665]
	Kernel driver in use: lpc_ich
	Kernel modules: lpc_ich
00:1f.2 SATA controller [0106]: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP SATA Controller [AHCI Mode] [8086:9c83] (rev 03)
	Subsystem: Dell Wildcat Point-LP SATA Controller [AHCI Mode] [1028:0665]
	Kernel driver in use: ahci
	Kernel modules: ahci
00:1f.3 SMBus [0c05]: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP SMBus Controller [8086:9ca2] (rev 03)
	Subsystem: Dell Wildcat Point-LP SMBus Controller [1028:0665]
	Kernel modules: i2c_i801
00:1f.6 Signal processing controller [1180]: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP Thermal Management Controller [8086:9ca4] (rev 03)
	Subsystem: Dell Wildcat Point-LP Thermal Management Controller [1028:0665]
	Kernel driver in use: intel_pch_thermal
	Kernel modules: intel_pch_thermal
01:00.0 Unassigned class [ff00]: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTS5249 PCI Express Card Reader [10ec:5249] (rev 01)
	Subsystem: Dell RTS5249 PCI Express Card Reader [1028:0665]
	Kernel driver in use: rtsx_pci
	Kernel modules: rtsx_pci
02:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Corporation BCM4352 802.11ac Wireless Network Adapter [14e4:43b1] (rev 03)
	Subsystem: Dell BCM4352 802.11ac Wireless Network Adapter [1028:0019]
	Kernel driver in use: wl
	Kernel modules: bcma, wl

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#3 2018-09-16 22:37:55

crankypuss
Member
Registered: 2018-09-15
Posts: 20  

Re: dell xps-13

I posted that i COULD NOT INSTALL DEVUAN because the necessary wifi driver is missing from the install build.

You asked for lscpi output, reasonable enough; i supplied it by booting Ubuntu-MATE and running the command.  It should be pretty obvious i'm not getting the lscpi result from Devuan because IT WOULD NOT INSTALL due to no wifi driver.

Now you are saying there's no problem because the driver is installed on another distro?  One of us appears to be confused. :-)

It's all good, somebody just needs to fix the build so all the available drivers are included, including the proprietary ones, linux will use the info printed by lscpi to find the right driver and load it, if i've not gone mad, and the driver is actually in the appropriate directory.

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#4 2018-09-16 23:06:22

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,368  

Re: dell xps-13

From the ACSII release notes:

### Non-free firmware

All Devuan 2.0 ASCII install media make non-free firmware packages
available at install time. In the majority of the cases, these
packages are needed (and will be installed) only if your wifi adapter
requires them. It is possible to avoid the automatic installation and
loading of needed non-free firmware by choosing the "Expert install"
option in the installation menu.

Devuan 2.0 ASCII desktop-live and minimal-live images come with
non-free firmware packages pre-installed. You have the option of
removing those non-free firmware packages from the desktop-live and
minimal-live after boot, using the "remove_firmware.sh" script
available under /root.

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#5 2018-09-16 23:25:23

crankypuss
Member
Registered: 2018-09-15
Posts: 20  

Re: dell xps-13

LOL, I tried Jessie since that's the debian release I have installed.  It looks like I might have had better results with Ascii.  Thank you.

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#6 2018-09-17 00:17:56

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,368  

Re: dell xps-13

non-free should be available in Jessie also.

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#7 2018-09-17 12:26:48

crankypuss
Member
Registered: 2018-09-15
Posts: 20  

Re: dell xps-13

interesting and kind of funky: in https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/d … README.txt it says this,

"If your hardware needs a 32-bit uefi bootloader with a 64-bit operating
system, install the grub-efi-ia32 package before running the installer."

LOL, you're supposed to install something *where* before you run the installer to install the system?

Yah, okay, moving right along <g>

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#8 2018-09-17 14:36:23

crankypuss
Member
Registered: 2018-09-15
Posts: 20  

Re: dell xps-13

okay, i downloaded a fresh copy of "devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso" and checked the sha256sum.  i then burned it onto a USB stick and booted the live system.  i then opened a browser and found there was no internet connection.  i ran wicd and it found no networks, even though my phone was supporting a wifi hotspot.  i tried issuing the command to list devices but couldn't remember it.  the screenshot should show that, if i can figure out how to include it in this post.

nope, no joy; the img tag requires a url and i'm done dicking around with it.  this crap is why i'm looking at leaving linux.

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#9 2018-09-17 15:11:31

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,368  

Re: dell xps-13

You certainly picked the right nick!

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#10 2018-09-17 17:20:20

GNUser
Member
Registered: 2017-03-16
Posts: 420  

Re: dell xps-13

@crankypuss - Leave linux because it tends to respect your freedom and makes distinction between free and non-free software? Strange.

This should be a relatively easy problem to fix. Your Broadcom BCM4352 wireless card requires the wl kernel module in order to function. Try this:

1. Add non-free to /etc/apt/sources.list file, so that it looks like this:

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged    ascii    main non-free

2. Give your computer a wired internet connection, then:

sudo apt update && sudo apt install linux-headers-$(uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,') broadcom-sta-dkms wireless-tools

Installing the above packages should cause the wl kernel module to be built.

3. Reboot

The above is my summary of the instructions here: https://wiki.debian.org/wl

P.S. If a wired internet connection is not an option, first get appropriate suffix in your Devuan installation by running uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'. Then boot into your linux distro that has working wifi, go to https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages#search_packages and "Search package directories" for broadcom-sta-dkms, wireless-tools, and linux-headers-suffix. You should be able to download the packages after a few clicks (choosing Debian stable/Stretch and architecture of your Devuan installation). Save packages to a flashdrive then, back in Devuan, install the three packages with sudo dpkg --install *.deb

Last edited by GNUser (2018-09-17 17:44:19)

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#11 2018-09-18 20:20:14

crankypuss
Member
Registered: 2018-09-15
Posts: 20  

Re: dell xps-13

Yes, i'm sure there are ways to get around this.  I've been getting around this kind of garbage since i abandoned Windows and moved to Ubuntu-oneiric.  Anything remotely non-paleolithic is not supported out of the box and you have to dick around endlessly with semi-documented commands, and once you get the system installed?  Within a month or two some "improvement" trashes something or other.

It isn't like this stuff is earthshakingly difficult.  It's just a mortal pain in the ass when you have to do it over and over in hopes that some distro will get it together.  The whole systemd fiasco has set linux back imo, and Canonical's foray into the phone arena set it back as well.  The push toward stupidizing into an all-icon user interface has nearly made most of the basic GUI utilities more useless.

Yes, my handle "crankypuss" was chosen with malice aforethought, i've been writing code since 1970 and i started out writing device drivers in assembler, and looking at the state of the industry in 2018 makes me want to puke because things are so lame.

There is no excuse for the state of the art to be this messed up imo.

And i realize that's not anyone here's fault, it just leans me in the cranky direction.

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#12 2018-09-19 18:19:05

HextorBRX
Member
Registered: 2017-08-20
Posts: 98  

Re: dell xps-13

Hello!

Have you considered you did not choose the right tool for the job? You should try a rolling release if you want a bleeding edge distribution that works out of the box. I have never had any WiFi issues with Gentoo, even with high-end computers. And you will not have to worry about systemd. You can also check out MX Linux which uses sysvinit as well: 4.15 kernel and full of non-free blobs (but it works). I would never install that but it might be what you are looking for?

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#13 2018-09-19 19:02:47

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,368  

Re: dell xps-13

HextorBRX wrote:

You can also check out MX Linux which uses sysvinit as well: 4.15 kernel and full of non-free blobs (but it works).

MX Linux also has the ability to enable systemd so all the systemd dependencies have to be present.  IMO those tentacles are unacceptable.  antiX does a better job of it.

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#14 2018-09-19 19:41:56

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 928  

Re: dell xps-13

crankypuss wrote:

interesting and kind of funky: in https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/d … README.txt it says this,

"If your hardware needs a 32-bit uefi bootloader with a 64-bit operating
system, install the grub-efi-ia32 package before running the installer."

LOL, you're supposed to install something *where* before you run the installer to install the system?

Yah, okay, moving right along <g>

Easiest place to install it would be in the running system. Just open a terminal and run sudo dpkg -i /grub-efi-ia32* Less easy would be to install the system to hard drive first and then chroot into the installed system to install grub, but even that isn't too difficult because the installer will allow you to do that.

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#15 2018-09-19 19:47:52

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 928  

Re: dell xps-13

crankypuss wrote:

okay, i downloaded a fresh copy of "devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso" and checked the sha256sum.  i then burned it onto a USB stick and booted the live system.  i then opened a browser and found there was no internet connection.  i ran wicd and it found no networks, even though my phone was supporting a wifi hotspot.  i tried issuing the command to list devices but couldn't remember it.  the screenshot should show that, if i can figure out how to include it in this post.

nope, no joy; the img tag requires a url and i'm done dicking around with it.  this crap is why i'm looking at leaving linux.

Check wicd preferences to make sure the defualt wireless device is set to the correct device. You can see what the device is called if you run ip a or /sbin/ifconfig. You'll find the preferences in a drop-down in wicd's menu bar. (it the triangle/arrow in the upper right of the window.)

Easiest way to include a link in a post is to hightlight the link in your browser's address bar, right-click and copy, then right-click and paste it into your post. No tags needed.

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#16 2018-09-21 16:04:07

crankypuss
Member
Registered: 2018-09-15
Posts: 20  

Re: dell xps-13

HextorBRX wrote:

Hello!

Have you considered you did not choose the right tool for the job? You should try a rolling release if you want a bleeding edge distribution that works out of the box.
...

friend, this xps-13 is the 2015 model; figure it out.  if i want to use the right tool for the job, what i should probably do is take it to bestbuy and say here, put windows-10 on this thing, and be done with it.  i can always boot linux from a backup ssd or microsd card.  or if i want to use the right tool for the job, maybe i should go to the Apple store and say "gimme that one, it's pretty" and make sure xcode is on it, or whatever their C/C++ development environment is called.

really, why should i keep bothering with linux?  it *never* has just installed right, not since i've been using it.  and once you get it installed, some new kernel version has ripples into some shared library and something isn't quite right.  i don't mind copying a backup of my running system once in a while, but i'd at least expect the goddamn thing to boot consistently after installing on 3+ year old hardware out of the box.

maybe that's unrealistic, i'm no sure.

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#17 2018-09-21 18:09:44

HextorBRX
Member
Registered: 2017-08-20
Posts: 98  

Re: dell xps-13

friend, this xps-13 is the 2015 model

I know what you mean son. I have been using BSD for a while and they have terrible hardware support! They claim they are wizards but it just does not work on anything remotely non-neolithic. The whole point of Linux in my opinion is that we are not forced to install non-free stuff, it is more secure and I like to choose what I am going to install. I usually try the ISO in a virtual machine before the installation and I keep searching until I am sure I will not have any issues.

Linux's hardware support is not as bad as you make out. There are many rolling distros that would work instantaneously but in that case you are probably right. Why would you bother installing a Linux distro when it has so much non-free stuff included by default? You are better off with Windows 10 or OS X which are much easier to set up. Plus, you cannot be sure your hardware or your softwares will work the same way after an upgrade tomorrow. Devuan, Debian and so on are very stable as long as you do not run dist-upgrade or even worse aptitude full-upgrade between two versions. Why don't you try what fsmithred suggested and send links whenever there is an error? Once you have nailed the essence of the problem, you will never encounter it again smile

Last edited by HextorBRX (2018-10-07 18:04:11)

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#18 2018-10-02 05:49:26

Devpaul
Member
Registered: 2017-11-12
Posts: 1  

Re: dell xps-13

You can solve this problem by copying the drivers from a debian nonfree image and pasting to the devuan image drivers folder then install the devuan image. 

I agree that one should not have to dick around forever to find a solution like this, though.

Should be sweet when you get Devuan up and  running on the XPS 13.

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#19 2018-10-02 14:34:34

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,368  

Re: dell xps-13

Why would that be necessary when Devuan has all of Debian's non-free drivers available at the user's discretion?

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#20 2018-10-02 19:14:14

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 928  

Re: dell xps-13

golinux wrote:

Why would that be necessary when Devuan has all of Debian's non-free drivers available at the user's discretion?

It would be necessary for someone who can't use a wired connection and needs one of the broadcom packages that require a network connection to install the firmware.

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#21 2018-10-17 11:49:43

crankypuss
Member
Registered: 2018-09-15
Posts: 20  

Re: dell xps-13

fsmithred wrote:
golinux wrote:

Why would that be necessary when Devuan has all of Debian's non-free drivers available at the user's discretion?

It would be necessary for someone who can't use a wired connection and needs one of the broadcom packages that require a network connection to install the firmware.

YES, that is exactly my situation.  I live in the mountains off-grid and the only internet access i have is a wifi hotspot on my cellphone.

Let me know if this POS will ever be usable by those without hardwired connections.

IMO the whole thing is absurd.  I know how good linux is, this is a build issue plain and simple.

When you fix it let me know which ISO file supposedly works.  TY

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#22 2018-10-17 20:37:48

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 928  

Re: dell xps-13

When you fix it let me know which ISO file supposedly works.  TY

Sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure it won't ever get fixed in Devuan or in Debian. FYI, the firmware you need is not in the debian-live-nonfree isos, either. Maybe Canonical feels wealthy enough to abide by the terms spelled out in the copyright notice. (Emphasis added)

2.3. Restriction on Distribution. Licensee shall only distribute the Software
(a) under the terms of this Agreement and a copy of this Agreement accompanies
such distribution, and (b) agrees to defend and indemnify Broadcom and its
licensors from and against any damages, costs, liabilities, settlement amounts
and/or expenses (including attorneys' fees) incurred in connection with any
claim, lawsuit or action by any third party
that arises or results from the use
or distribution of any and all Software by the Licensee except as contemplated
herein.

I think that leaves you with using ubuntu or getting different hardware (maybe a usb wireless dongle).

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#23 2018-10-18 01:42:02

crankypuss
Member
Registered: 2018-09-15
Posts: 20  

Re: dell xps-13

Blame games.

meh, it doesn't matter much.  if i got it installed, there'd probably be no ncurses matching php, like on whatever ubuntu i was using... ubuntu-mate that's it.  i can reboot the thing 4 or 5 times and eventually get ubuntu-mate up and running and all i'm really using it for is the debugging/development environment,
netbeans i think it was.  it's just C++ development.  it's just damn annoying to have to reboot linux as
many as 5 times just to get to the login screen.  it's disgusting is what it is, it just flat sucks.

oh well, i'm not sure if i'll ever pick up that code again, it's been over a year since i looked at it, more
than that i guess.  i was just about getting a good start on it when my wife got sick and i never have
looked at it since.

i just think it's a helluva note that linux has to suck hind tit when it's underpinning most of the industry.  no idea what's wrong with y'all, Android sucks, Windows sucks, iOS sucks, i say fix the thing in one whack
or let it go entirely to hell.  It'll get figured out eventually, another 10 or 20 years, if Microsoft doesn't pull one out of the bag before then.  Since the wife died i'm ambivalent, letting it all go to hell is not that big
a deal to me anymore.

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#24 2018-10-18 01:50:51

crankypuss
Member
Registered: 2018-09-15
Posts: 20  

Re: dell xps-13

fsmithred wrote:

When you fix it let me know which ISO file supposedly works.  TY

Sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure it won't ever get fixed in Devuan or in Debian. FYI, the firmware you need is not in the debian-live-nonfree isos, either. Maybe Canonical feels wealthy enough to abide by the terms spelled out in the copyright notice. (Emphasis added)

Or, maybe Canonical has lawyers that understand the following paragraph of bullshit and know it doesn't say a damn thing?  idk, i'm just a programmer, not a liar-with-words.  Or maybe Canonical simply doesn't
care, no telling.

2.3. Restriction on Distribution. Licensee shall only distribute the Software
(a) under the terms of this Agreement and a copy of this Agreement accompanies
such distribution, and (b) agrees to defend and indemnify Broadcom and its
licensors from and against any damages, costs, liabilities, settlement amounts
and/or expenses (including attorneys' fees) incurred in connection with any
claim, lawsuit or action by any third party
that arises or results from the use
or distribution of any and all Software by the Licensee except as contemplated
herein.

I think that leaves you with using ubuntu or getting different hardware (maybe a usb wireless dongle).

I think it doesn't much matter, it's primarily system-independent-C++ with a set of plugins per operating
system, until it's burned into rom and then the os becomes irrelevant.  Microsoft almost certainly has
some chicanery involved in the design of the new partition setup, efi i guess it was, that lets you define
your own architecture and lock the end-user out of anything else.

It's easy to forget details.  Carry on then, pip pip and cheerio, all that hooplah --

And thanks for running it down, i appreciate your help.

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#25 2018-10-19 12:54:41

crankypuss
Member
Registered: 2018-09-15
Posts: 20  

Re: dell xps-13

Okay, stupid-boy here finally put 2 and 2 together.  I was on the road all last week.  Most (all?) of the hotels i stayed in have direct-connect lan.  So the problem of how to install this gem should be solved, the next time i'm in a hotel with a hardwire lan connection, i download some iso file or other and it should just install, right (right?).

Now, which of the ISOs is it that has a version of PHP that also has a matching version of ncurses?  I don't need the latest version, i think the 5.3 version is the last one with a functional ncurses extension.  ubuntu-mate has a PHP version of 7.? (or did) but there's no matching version of ncurses.  I'm currently booting debian-jessie when i want to use on of the utilities i've put together in PHP.

Suggestions?

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