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#1 2018-03-20 11:56:28

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 17  

Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Hello,
I'm new in this Forum and also no experienced on Devuan (or once Debian). I start with 'Linux Ultimate' (8 years ago), after six months change to 'Ubuntu' and since them stick with KDE (Kubuntu till few months ago and now KDE-Neon). My favorite is KDE 4 but also acclimate (a little bit) with Plamsa 5.

If I well understood for KDE is recommended to use 'ascii' , nevertheless many questions make a round in the head cause of lack of experience in config-files and deep knowledge of Linux in general . I'm mouse-clicker and not programmer but want to joint 'systemd'-free OS and I know that much to learn is on front of me. At end looking for (at least) best links to reach my goal and here the questions/detailed-link-request:

1) Newbie-Link (please) with instructions for install 'Devuan' and switch to 'ascii' (if necessary/recommended).
2) Newbie-Link (please) to set 'OpenRC' as default and parallelize it (parallelized services-start and applications?).
3) Wish to know witch Kubuntu-/KDE-Plasma-Version-s correspond to 'ascii' and the 'PPA' i have to insert.

An additional question is: Will 'Wayland' take place (a day) /come to 'Devuan'?

Thank you very much in advance for any answer and best regards, Terence.

Note: I can abdicate to parallelized 'openrc' if it not work.

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#2 2018-03-20 14:11:21

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 928  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

ascii has kde 5:92 (I checked the version of kde-plasma-desktop). You don't need any PPA (and you should not use any PPA or non-devuan repositories.)

Installer isos are here -
https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii_b … aller-iso/

If you want to install openrc from the installer, choose Advanced Options from the boot menu and then choose Expert Install.
When you get to 'Load installer components from CD' choose the second item in that list, "Choose init". At some point, you will be given a chance to choose openrc. I don't know anything about parallelizing service startups in openrc. Isn't that what causes long delays in boot times with systemd?

Here's an installation guide for jessie. It will work with ascii, too.
https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgra … install.md

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#3 2018-03-20 19:30:03

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 17  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Thanks a lot fsmithred and sorry to bother you again.

I read the installation-instructions but there is no mention how to install KDE. The second point about PPA, how to install proprietary (at least) GPU-drivers on 'Devuan'? Can you propose additional links for those two topics? Is there a guide anywhere?

On the search for OS without 'systemd' discover 'TrueOS' and there i found https://www.trueos.org/handbook/using.html#tuneables can run (experimental) parallelized. Thankfully found finally  Devuan

Thanks again and best regards

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#4 2018-03-20 21:06:46

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 928  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

I think kde is one of the choices for desktop environments in the ascii installer isos. If not, you can un-check the desktop options and install just the standard system utilities. When you reboot into the installed system, become root (or use sudo) and apt-get install task-plasma-desktop

For proprietary graphics drivers, see the debian wiki. The procedure for devuan is the same.

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#5 2018-03-21 06:50:18

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 17  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

If PPAs like Ubuntu (Kubuntu, KDE-Neon) are not possible, and I understand this, how can I install all the staff inside this list?

file:///etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://archive.getdeb.net/ubuntu xenial-getdeb apps games
# deb-src http://archive.getdeb.net/ubuntu xenial-getdeb apps games

file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/audio-recorder-ubuntu-ppa-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/freecad-maintainers-ubuntu-freecad-stable-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/gambas-team-ubuntu-gambas3-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/gezakovacs-ubuntu-ppa-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/graphics-drivers-ubuntu-ppa-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/librecad-dev-ubuntu-librecad-stable-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/libreoffice-ubuntu-libreoffice-5-3-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/maarten-baert-ubuntu-simplescreenrecorder-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/mozillateam-ubuntu-ppa-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/neomilium-ubuntu-heekscnc-devel-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/nilarimogard-ubuntu-webupd8-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/otto-kesselgulasch-ubuntu-gimp-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/team-xbmc-ubuntu-ppa-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/ubuntu-desktop-ubuntu-ubuntu-make-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/ubuntuhandbook1-ubuntu-dvdstyler-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/videolan-ubuntu-stable-daily-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/webupd8team-ubuntu-java-xenial.list
file:///etc/apt/sources.list.d/webupd8team-ubuntu-tor-browser-xenial.list

Last edited by Terence (2018-03-21 07:00:01)

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#6 2018-03-21 09:32:32

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 17  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Now I'm completely confused (GPU-Drivers) roll I read following:
https://unix.stackexchange.com/question … for-rx-470
https://packages.debian.org/stretch/xse … deo-amdgpu
https://packages.debian.org/stretch/amd … u/download

deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stretch main

https://talk.devuan.org/t/upgrading-dev … -ascii/363

cat /etc/*version
results in ascii/ceres

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devuan
So it sames the line in '/etc/apt/sources.list' should be:

deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian ceres main

but if I change the address of second and third link in 'ceres'... the pages do not exist.
Nonetheless, no 'signing-key' for 'ceres' repository? that's main Debian-Repo! should i deactivate after driver is installed  or will come undesirable packages in the system!?

Nevertheless remain the 'Wayland' questions still open. Reading the first link appear that Debian and Devuan (maybe too) don't support it, but KDE and many others DE (mentioned in your install-instructions-link) support it and I know (e.g. KDE) stop developing x-apps (only maintenance since Qt 5.12).
Even KDE 4 was also used in FreeBSD, Arch, Fedora, Mint, Kubuntu, etc. but my Ku 14.04.1 crashed (first crashed Linux I ever seen) as Ku 17.10 appear and I find 'systemd' in it. Besides I write just now under KDE-Neon-User-Edition (Qt 5.12.3) in X-11 and (believe me) is not yet finished and I had to switch from KDE-Neon-LTS-Edition (Qt 5.8...) cause of malfunctioning (no 'kdesudo', DE-inconsistencies, etc.)

I get slowly cold feet! Can someone help me? Or better to wait until all those things are solved!?

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#7 2018-03-21 12:02:03

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 928  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

I think I suggested checking the debian wiki for the graphics drivers. I did not suggest using debian sources.

DO NOT USE DEBIAN OR UBUNTU SOURCES IN YOUR sources.list file.

https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo
https://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii main contrib non-free

For all those ubuntu packages, just remove 'unbuntu' from the name and install it. For example, instead of installing libreoffice-ubuntu from the ppa, install libreoffice from the devuan repository. Do the same with the other packages.

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#8 2018-03-21 15:18:09

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,371  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Also do not rely on information at  https://talk.devuan.org/ .  There should be a notice at the top of every page to "PROCEED WITH CAUTION".  It is there for a reason - the info is about a year old and may no longer be correct.

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#9 2018-07-21 16:09:16

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 17  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Dear All, dear Devs,
thanks first for releasing Devuan 2 (Ascii), it was time, ti's works flawlessly and is great, GREAT JOB!

@ my side I would say 'mission accomplished', that's mean I have now 'Devuan' + parallelized 'OpenRC' + KDE and I done it too:

1. Download  Devuan-DVD-ISO https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/i … _dvd-1.iso
2. Choose 'Graphical Expert Install'
3. Choose 'Init  Select'
4. Choose 'KDE'-Desktop

After Install... update System and parallelize ' OpenRC' as follow:
1. Edit 'OpenRC' configuration file with:

sudo -i kate /etc/rc.conf

2. Search for 'parallel' or look @ line N° 10, Original text:

#rc_parallel="NO"

and modify as follow:

rc_parallel="YES"

Save and close file, restart system to reload 'OpenRC', ENJOY!
Note the '#' must be deleted in order to activate the whole line.

Is the system faster with parallelized 'OpenRC'? YEA absolutely! and not only by booting but by using it too.

Counter-check everything is like you want!
1. Check 'OpenRC' is up and running:

pidof /sbin/init && echo "openrc" || echo "other

Output:

1
openrc

2. Check 'OpenRC' is parallelized:

(ps -eo "ppid,args" 2>/dev/null || echo "ps call error") \
| awk 'NR==1 || $1==1' | less

Output:

PPID COMMAND
1 udevd --daemon
1 /usr/sbin/rsyslogd
1 /usr/bin/sddm
1 /usr/sbin/irqbalance --pid=/var/run/irqbalance.pid
1 /usr/sbin/cron
1 /usr/sbin/minidlnad -f /etc/minidlna.conf -P /run/minidlna/minidlna.pid
1 /usr/sbin/lircd
1 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system
1 /usr/sbin/bluetoothd
1 /usr/sbin/elogind -D
1 avahi-daemon: running [devuan.local]
1 /usr/sbin/cups-browsed
1 /usr/sbin/cupsd -C /etc/cups/cupsd.conf -s /etc/cups/cups-files.conf
1 /usr/sbin/NetworkManager
1 /usr/lib/policykit-1/polkitd --no-debug
1 /usr/sbin/ModemManager
1 /sbin/getty 38400 tty1
1 /sbin/getty 38400 tty2
1 /sbin/getty 38400 tty3
1 /sbin/getty 38400 tty4
1 /sbin/getty 38400 tty5
1 /sbin/getty 38400 tty6
1 dbus-launch --autolaunch f0a310180b0074f3045bafdf5b5212db --binary-syntax --close-stderr
1 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --fork --print-pid 5 --print-address 7 --session
1 /usr/lib/udisks2/udisksd --no-debug
1 /usr/lib/upower/upowerd
1 /usr/bin/kwalletd5 --pam-login 15 3
1 /usr/bin/dbus-launch --exit-with-session --sh-syntax
1 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --fork --print-pid 5 --print-address 15 --session
1 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libexec/kf5/start_kdeinit --kded +kcminit_startup
1 kdeinit5: Running...

YEA! Is parallelized! Process-Identification-Number (PID) is 1 = first process = 'init-system'.

I hope this could help someone else, I'm absolutely satisfied! Thanks guys & girls

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#10 2018-07-21 16:43:29

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,371  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

This is good news!  Thanks for sharing.

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#11 2018-07-22 06:42:12

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 17  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

golinux wrote:

This is good news!  Thanks for sharing.

Thank you!
If so, please make it available for everyone, even if you retain opportune to make corrections, also outside this forum.
The biggest argument of 'SystemD' supporters is the 'parallelism' and that has within no validity anymore... Enjoy and good luck to you and the project.

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#12 2018-07-22 12:49:57

xe-non
Member
Registered: 2018-07-15
Posts: 13  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

[#] what is paralleized openrc mean?
[#] Can't I install mate+openrc using devun_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso?

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#13 2018-07-22 14:10:38

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 928  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Parallelized refers to services starting more or less all at the same time at boot. This was supposed to be a selling point for systemd when it was introduced, based on the belief that the system would boot faster. Sysvinit and openrc normally start services one after another. In practice, which method boots faster can vary.

The installer in the live isos copies the running live system to the hard drive. Since openrc is not installed in the current live isos, it won't be installed with the system. You can add it after you reboot into the new system. If openrc becomes the default init system in devuan at some time in the future, you will get it in the live isos, and in that case, if you want sysvinit, you'd have to add it after the initial installation.

If you want to install devuan with openrc on a lot of computers, you could make your own live iso with openrc. You would install the first system with sysvinit, change it to openrc, then run refractasnapshot to make a new iso. Then, any installs you did with the new iso would have openrc right from the start. I've already tried this, and it works.

Oops! I forgot that you asked about mate - there's no mate in the live isos. You would have to add that after you install the new system. The desktop-live only has xfce.

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#14 2018-07-22 15:08:56

xe-non
Member
Registered: 2018-07-15
Posts: 13  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Can I do it (mate+openrc) using devuan_..._dvd-1.iso?

Last edited by xe-non (2018-07-22 15:18:25)

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#15 2018-07-22 15:21:18

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 755  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

I have a "Miyo-nized" Openbox version of Devuan with OpenRC that was "paralleled"...it does seem to boot faster. wink


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#16 2018-07-22 16:02:44

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 17  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

fsmithred wrote:

Since openrc is not installed in the current live isos, it won't be installed with the system. You can add it after you reboot into the new system. If openrc becomes the default init system in devuan at some time in the future, you will get it in the live isos, and in that case, if you want sysvinit, you'd have to add it after the initial installation.

If you want to install devuan with openrc on a lot of computers, you could make your own live iso with openrc. You would install the first system with sysvinit, change it to openrc, then run refractasnapshot to make a new iso. Then, any installs you did with the new iso would have openrc right from the start. I've already tried this, and it works.

Sorry but that's wrong, I post the Link with ISO let you install 'OpenRC' and KDE from beginning, NO Postinstall, only Post-Parallelism!

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#17 2018-07-22 16:09:54

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 17  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

xe-non wrote:

Can I do it (mate+openrc) using devuan_..._dvd-1.iso?

Sorry I have no idea about Mate but with the DVD-ISO in 'expert graphical mode' you cann install the 'OpenRC' @ beginning.
That's much easier than Post-Install + deleting/deactivate former 'sysinit'

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#18 2018-07-22 16:22:12

xe-non
Member
Registered: 2018-07-15
Posts: 13  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Can I choose mate like kde (on 4th step)?

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#19 2018-07-22 16:36:36

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 755  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

xe-non wrote:

Can I choose mate like kde (on 4th step)?

Yes, Mate is there to choose from. wink

Terence wrote:

Sorry but that's wrong, I post the Link with ISO let you install 'OpenRC' and KDE from beginning, NO Postinstall, only Post-Parallelism!

fsmithred was speaking about the "Live .isos" which are different than the DVDs that you installed with. wink So, it would indeed have to be done post-install if a user has installed Devuan with a Live .iso. wink


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#20 2018-07-22 16:43:17

xe-non
Member
Registered: 2018-07-15
Posts: 13  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Thak you everybody.

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#21 2018-07-23 02:25:36

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 755  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

xe-non wrote:

Can I do it (mate+openrc) using devuan_..._dvd-1.iso?

Forgot to mention that the netinstall .iso can also be used for this...that's what I used. wink


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#22 2018-07-23 09:24:38

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 17  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

MiyoLinux wrote:
xe-non wrote:

Can I choose mate like kde (on 4th step)?

Yes, Mate is there to choose from. wink

Terence wrote:

Sorry but that's wrong, I post the Link with ISO let you install 'OpenRC' and KDE from beginning, NO Postinstall, only Post-Parallelism!

fsmithred was speaking about the "Live .isos" which are different than the DVDs that you installed with. wink So, it would indeed have to be done post-install if a user has installed Devuan with a Live .iso. wink

I understand, but, I'm also newbie and can tell that the only substantial difference between "Live-ISO" and "DVD-ISO" is to make a 'click' to select the "Init-System". That's much more easier than substitute the "Init-System" post-install.
I hope we are still talking about "Graphical Expert Install" contained in the "DVD-ISO".
I'm scared too using "command-line" by installation.

Naturally could be a great thing if DEVs add the "Init-System" option in the Live-Iso and maybe out of the box "OpenRC" already parallelized.
Sure is, I never seen and had KDE full installed and operating using only 510 MB RAM and never seen OS booting faster than BIOS-POST.

At this point again: Greatest Job done by Devuan-DEVs!

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#23 2018-07-23 12:56:01

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 755  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Thank you Terence. smile

xe-non had asked if adding OpenRC could be done with the Live .iso, so that's why fsmithred responded with the basic instructions of what one would have to do to install OpenRC on a system that had been installed using the Live .iso.

Your method and instructions for installing OpenRC and making it parallel at boot are great and will help many others. Thank you!


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#24 2018-07-23 16:22:06

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 928  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Terence wrote:

I understand, but, I'm also newbie and can tell that the only substantial difference between "Live-ISO" and "DVD-ISO" is to make a 'click' to select the "Init-System". That's much more easier than substitute the "Init-System" post-install.
...
Naturally could be a great thing if DEVs add the "Init-System" option in the Live-Iso and maybe out of the box "OpenRC" already parallelized.

The difference between the live isos and the installer isos is that the installer isos boot you into a special environment that lets you install the system from packages. Those packages can be downloaded from the repository if you choose a mirror, or they can be pulled from the removable media if you use one of the installer CD or DVD images and do not choose a mirror. The packages then are unpacked and configured.

The live isos boot you into an actual system that's almost identical to an installed system. When you install the live system to hard drive, it copies the running system from the removable media to the hard drive. No unpacking and configuring packages is needed, as that was already done by the devs (KatolaZ and me) before making the live iso.

As I mentioned above, it is possible to make a live iso that uses openrc, but there is no possibility of choosing the init system or any other software during the installation. You aren't creating a new system when you install from the live isos - you are copying a system that was already created and configured, so you get the packages that we installed to make the iso. (I hope I said that clearly enough.)

As much as I would love to provide live isos for sysvinit and openrc and all the desktops and i386 and amd64, all the combinations would be too much to maintain. Some of these combinations are provided by downstream derivative distros (like miyolinux, for example) that use only devuan repositories in their sources.list. (They are really devuan in disguise.)

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#25 2018-07-24 10:21:11

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 17  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Thanks a lot

Now I got a lot of more understanding about the install process of Devuan-Linux, sincerely thanks again.

For me , as linux-newbie, is then  Devuan_DVD-ISO_Graphical-Expert-Install the best solution to reach the target and hope other user can help it too.

Thank you make it possible through your efforts/work.

It would be great if someone could make a "Wiki" about, also because can be applied to all available desktops-environment offered in Devuan.

Parallelized OpenRC is SystemD-Myths-BUSTER !!!

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