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#1 2018-02-04 14:26:32

fungus
Member
From: Any witch way
Registered: 2017-07-12
Posts: 497  
Website

pkgmaster is repository hell (continued)

It was brought to my attention that my prohibition to post here has ended.  This is my first try to post ever since the "Post Reply" button reappeared.
I would very much like to engage and participate in the above and other discussions but this would have been a trap to undermine the reasons for which I was put in isolation, even though we all are still prisoners of the administrators.

The question remains.  Is and has the onion address of the repository been forwarded to pkgmaster as announced by golinux and katolaz or is it (and has been in the recent past and ever since the announcement of pkgmaster) another repository with supposedly the same content?  This is a question that is not personal in anyway but relevant to anyone wishing to try devuan.

As a non-personal issue it should have been anyone's issue to forward to the "appropriate channels".  I chose to use the "officially official" devuan forum.
As far as I know this question has not been answered by devuan "officially".  If and when this question is answered then I would be willing to discuss "other" matters.  Till then, it all appears to me as an escape from answering the question above.  Has Devuan been deceiving its users or not?  I think it is important.

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#2 2018-02-04 16:11:58

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,101  

Re: pkgmaster is repository hell (continued)

2018-01-30 00:04:43 fsmithred: KatolaZ, I think I said pretty much the same thing on that thread.
2018-01-30 00:05:19 fsmithred: Only advantage I can see for https is if you don't want ISP or government to know what you're installing.
2018-01-30 00:06:06 fsmithred: which might be a legitimate concern for a few people
2018-01-30 00:13:40 FoxMuldV6: also think public wifi at starbucks or in a hotel.
2018-01-30 00:30:54 KatolaZ: fsmithred: didn't have much time to go through the whole thread tbh
2018-01-30 00:30:58 KatolaZ: got tired pretty early
2018-01-30 00:31:07 KatolaZ: read it diagonally
2018-01-30 00:31:24 KatolaZ: and spotted those inaccuracies in the reasoning . . .
2018-01-30 00:33:55 KatolaZ: FoxMuldV6: so what? your fello coffee-addicts can get to know that you installed nano?
2018-01-30 00:33:58 KatolaZ: o_O
2018-01-30 00:35:22 FoxMuldV6: I'm sure with the right distro there is bound to be a package 'pornhub-collection', and it's really noone's business when I install that! :-p
2018-01-30 00:35:45 KatolaZ: FoxMuldV6: big_smile
2018-01-30 00:36:07 KatolaZ: they should first break wifi auth
2018-01-30 00:36:40 KatolaZ: then manage to do an arp-spoofing with the gateway....
2018-01-30 00:37:00 KatolaZ: and/or
2018-01-30 00:37:04 KatolaZ: depending on the ap config
2018-01-30 00:37:21 KatolaZ: (normally LAN communication is not enabled by default)
2018-01-30 00:42:02 fsmithred: my main concern is that he said the onion address only works intermittently. So I'm testing it.
2018-01-30 00:42:47 fsmithred: oh, and that he gets different results whether he uses tor or not
2018-01-30 00:43:28 KatolaZ: fsmithred: that's quite unlikely
2018-01-30 00:43:36 KatolaZ: I have tested both http and https
2018-01-30 00:43:39 KatolaZ: and they are the same
2018-01-30 00:43:44 fsmithred: same here
2018-01-30 00:43:50 KatolaZ: just asked parazyd who has confirmed that http, https, and onion are the same
2018-01-30 00:43:53 KatolaZ: SO
2018-01-30 00:44:27 KatolaZ: the problem is probably elsewhere
2018-01-30 00:44:50 fsmithred: I was taught to check whether anyone else has the problem or if someone knows what I did wrong before I file a bug report
2018-01-30 00:46:35 KatolaZ: I would rather invest the time to fix anna/net-retriever for d-i smile
2018-01-30 00:46:51 KatolaZ: it's more useful to a much larger number of devuan users wink
2018-01-30 00:50:44 parazyd: it's literally impossible to get different results with https/http/tor if you're using pkgmaster in all 3
2018-01-30 00:52:42 KatolaZ: well, the only possibility is that there is a glitch on the debian side
2018-01-30 00:52:45 KatolaZ: with tor
2018-01-30 00:52:55 KatolaZ: which happened a couple of times, months ago
2018-01-30 00:57:18 parazyd: still no reason to get updates with tor and no updates through http(s)

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#3 2018-02-04 16:51:19

fungus
Member
From: Any witch way
Registered: 2017-07-12
Posts: 497  
Website

Re: pkgmaster is repository hell (continued)

Totally OFF-TOPIC
I have not questioned the transport protocol but the address itself.  Obviously the onion address can only be reached through tor by either tor://.....onion or tor+http://,,,,,onion

I am clearly questioning whether the onion address and the pkgmaster is the same as all evidence was pointing to not being the same.  For example see the thread with OpenRC on ascii.  Just switching the address from pkgmaster to onion OpenRC had insufficient pkg available.  Dependencies were missing all over the place and I had reported them.  Fsmithred said he had no clue why that would be.  I told him then that the only possible explanations was that using the same exact repositories with the onion address and with pkgmaster gave different results.  Which I tried later with another installation and it was pretty obvious.  My first try was with ceres and ceres covered the dependencies for the missing ones from ascii.

Hitting tor://pkgmaster yes, you go into the tor network and back out to clearnet to pkgmaster.  Pkgmaster server sees the exit node ip, and the transfer is through socks5.  That is not what the problem is.  Obviously dns provides the same ip for pkgmaster whether you go through tor or http or https.

Again is devuanfwojg73k6r.onion the same server as pkgmaster.devuan.org and if so since when?

"This site can be mentioned as “dev dash 1 dot org” as it is reached via dev-one.org and dev-1.org.

To avoid censorship and blocks to the Internet, this website is also accessible using Tor at the address http://devuanzuwu3xoqwp.onion"

We provide access to our package repository also via Tor: install apt-transport-tor and then use the following hidden services

deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged jessie          main
deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged jessie-updates  main
deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged jessie-security main


from: https://devuan.org/

Last edited by fungus (2018-02-04 17:00:28)

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#4 2018-02-04 18:59:08

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,101  

Re: pkgmaster is repository hell (continued)

Please post your sources.list . . . all of it.

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#5 2018-02-05 02:17:40

fungus
Member
From: Any witch way
Registered: 2017-07-12
Posts: 497  
Website

Re: pkgmaster is repository hell (continued)

deb tor://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii main contrib non-free
deb tor://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii-updates  main contrib non-free
deb tor://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii-security main contrib non-free
# deb tor://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii main contrib non-free
# deb tor://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-updates  main contrib non-free
# deb tor://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-security main contrib non-free

This is what I was alternating back and forth and getting different results with about 4 installations.
The last two I tried on the same day with pkgmaster they were all up to date and there was nothing to upgrade.
Switching the comment from bottom three to top three, the release files had to reload as new, and a whole bunch of things had to be changed like it was shifting from one distro to another.  When the process was done the installation was all broken and couldn't boot or chroot to, due to essential pkgs being removed.

But what is the point of asking.  Are you trying to get an answer or an excuse that it is my fault.  I did the same thing in debian, and the release files do not reload as they have the same gpg key, because their onion address points to the same repository, not a different one!

Is devuanfwojg73k6r.onion = pkgmaster.devuan.org ?

That is all you need to answer.  I have stated the same problem about 10 times already, why is it so damn hard for you or katolaz to comprehend?
And you do not need to answer to me, but the body of devuan users, because if there is no technically rational explanation none should trust devuan anymore!

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#6 2018-02-05 02:45:34

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,101  

Re: pkgmaster is repository hell (continued)

fungus wrote:

Is devuanfwojg73k6r.onion = pkgmaster.devuan.org ?

<golinux>  Is and has the onion address of the repository been forwarded to pkgmaster
<KatolaZ> yes

KatolaZ requested that you post your sources.list.  Have any other repositories EVER been used on the ascii installations tested? 

Don't shoot the messenger.  I have never expressed a technical assessment on your issue because I have never used tor in conjunction with a repository.  Heck, I've barely used tor at all!  Without that experience I am unqualified to have an opinion or comprehend because I have no point of reference.  Instead, I have attempted to point you in the direction of those who could better help you sort things out.

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#7 2018-02-05 02:47:24

ralph.ronnquist
Administrator
From: Clifton Hill, Victoria, AUS
Registered: 2016-11-30
Posts: 221  

Re: pkgmaster is repository hell (continued)

What's the output from:

$ tor-resolve devuanfwojg73k6r.onion

I believe that should tell you what the onion address resolves to. Then compare with output from:

$ host pkgmaster.devuan.org

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#8 2018-02-05 04:04:16

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 759  

Re: pkgmaster is repository hell (continued)

fungus wrote:

The question remains.  Is and has the onion address of the repository been forwarded to pkgmaster as announced by golinux and katolaz or is it (and has been in the recent past and ever since the announcement of pkgmaster) another repository with supposedly the same content?  This is a question that is not personal in anyway but relevant to anyone wishing to try devuan.

I don't know how you could have asked that more clearly than you did, so I don't understand the response. I don't have an official answer, but I'll tell you what I know.

On October 20, I posted an announcement saying that amprolla3 was up and running at pkgmaster.devuan.org.
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=5669#p5669

I don't know when the onion address became active. If it was around months before pkgmaster, then it would have pointed to packages.devuan.org, same as auto.mirror.devuan.org does. And I seem to recall that there were some differences between the two at first. That got fixed. I only know that last week when I asked, the onion address was pointing to pkgmaster.

I doubt that anyone remembers exactly when they this or that, and it's even less likely that 'they will take the time to look it up. They're too busy fixing things.

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#9 2018-02-05 17:08:49

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,101  

Re: pkgmaster is repository hell (continued)

fungus wrote:
deb tor://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii main contrib non-free
deb tor://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii-updates  main contrib non-free
deb tor://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii-security main contrib non-free
# deb tor://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii main contrib non-free
# deb tor://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-updates  main contrib non-free
# deb tor://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-security main contrib non-free

That helped to clarify the issue.  This is the tor address on devuan.org.  Please notice the deb tor+http://

deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged jessie          main
deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged jessie-updates  main
deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged jessie-security main

If you just replace jessie with ascii without altering it in any other way, I was advised that tor will work perfectly.

Also please  remove tor:// when using pkgmaster and use http in that case.

HND

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#10 2018-02-05 18:32:27

fungus
Member
From: Any witch way
Registered: 2017-07-12
Posts: 497  
Website

Re: pkgmaster is repository hell (continued)

I have used tor:// instead of tor+http:// for years because I have proved to my self that there is not a bit of difference.  I actually threw it in there as bate so the innocent can get caught on the hook.

Try again because there has been 0 answer still.
Ralph's response appears as an answer of how things are working "now", not how they have been working.  It was within hours/days Katolaz responded on DNZ that ....onion is equal to pkgmaster, and GoLinux copied this response here about the same day.  Look up amprolla3 announcement and you will find the statement as I say shortly after, if you care.  It was since then that 3 or 4 ascii installation broke because of the difference between the "two" different things.  I would care more about why this is the case than about responding to me and shutting me up.  I am glad if after months of complaining somebody was lead to go fix it even though it may not be admittable that it was a mistake and it is now fixed.
</p><p>
Try tor and tor+http and let me know how is it different or supposed to be different.
</p><p>
Unfortunately I have lost interest in trying anymore.  It is not worth my time, despite of how much I will miss three people in here and I have not altered my signature and stand behind their efforts.

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#11 2018-02-06 10:38:07

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 759  

Re: pkgmaster is repository hell (continued)

I don't understand what this is supposed to do.

tor-resolve devuanfwojg73k6r.onion
Feb 06 10:16:17.483 [warn] Got SOCKS5 status response '4': host is unreachable
Feb 06 10:16:17.483 [warn] devuanfwojg73k6r.onion is a hidden service; those don't have IP addresses. You can use the AutomapHostsOnResolve option to have Tor return a fake address for hidden services.  Or you can have your application send the address to Tor directly; we recommend an application that uses SOCKS 5 with hostnames.

I can confirm that tor and tor+http give the same results.

root@ascii:/home/user# apt-get update
Get:1 tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii InRelease [22.2 kB]
Get:2 tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii-updates InRelease [22.2 kB]                                          
Get:3 tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii-security InRelease [21.6 kB]                                         
Get:4 tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages [7,232 kB]                                       
Get:5 tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii-security/main amd64 Packages [246 kB]                                
Fetched 7,545 kB in 3min 37s (34.7 kB/s)                                                                                  
Reading package lists... Done
root@ascii:/home/user# aptitude -s full-upgrade
The following packages will be upgraded: 
  chromium p7zip p7zip-full 
The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
  fonts-liberation 
3 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 47.0 MB of archives. After unpacking 657 kB will be used.

Note: Using 'Simulate' mode.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?] n
Abort.


root@ascii:/home/user# apt-get update
Hit:1 tor://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii InRelease  
Hit:2 tor://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii-updates InRelease
Hit:3 tor://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii-security InRelease
Reading package lists... Done
root@ascii:/home/user# aptitude -s full-upgrade
The following packages will be upgraded: 
  chromium p7zip p7zip-full 
The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
  fonts-liberation 
3 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 47.0 MB of archives. After unpacking 657 kB will be used.

Note: Using 'Simulate' mode.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?] n
Abort.

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#12 2018-02-06 13:01:08

fungus
Member
From: Any witch way
Registered: 2017-07-12
Posts: 497  
Website

Re: pkgmaster is repository hell (continued)

This is what I was saying, up to about 10 days ago and intemittendly for a couple of months they were giving different results, meaning that there were things missing from one and that they couldn't have been the same.  Take a look at what it was doing when OpenRC moved to ascii.  Then when miyo-extra came out 2-3 installations were destroyed by this.  The installation on two boxes was fine and fully updated, then switch just the names of the repositories pkgmaster.devuan.org to ...onion and it was like going from jessie to ceres, before I knew it half the system was gone and wouldn't even respond to chroot, never mind booting.

I'm just glad that out of this "someone" went and fixed something even though *he will not admit to it.
I'm just done here due to trust, of people telling me that I am nuts instead of looking at the problem.
Thos who use tor, for whatever reason, are not usually talkative or subscribe to forums and lists.  So just because nobody else is reporting anything doesn't say much about the state of things.

Anyway, thank you for your time.

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