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#53 Re: Other Issues » [SOLVED] Apt-get show one package per line? » 2019-12-20 04:16:59

I think aptitude UI will be suitable solution for different cases.

#54 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-10 06:12:23

I am here not to begin a new flame war. I just explain why escaping from GNU/Linux instead of fighting to reclaim it back is a bad idea, and why escaping to BSD is really terrible idea in particular.

#55 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-10 05:34:37

freemedia2018 wrote:
ToxicExMachina wrote:

The better option is to fork Linux and reorganize it into community maintainable project. Now it's optimized for corporate invasion.

we are on the same page there, not only do i think a fork of linux is the better option, its the more likely one (better hardware support) but i still question how the original bsd was "proprietary software."

because of the license? as the software was not copyrightable, the only ways to make the software "proprietary" was to deny public access to source code (this wasnt done, afaik) and to try to use ndas or trade agreements (this wasnt done, afaik) since once someone had access they could already do what they wanted with it.

there was no reason to put the code under a license that said you could do what you could already do without one. bsd didnt exist until 74, and in 1972 gottschalk v. benson had made it extremely difficult to patent software, so there wasnt really that issue to contend with.

1. Initial parts of GNU GPL with copyleft principle were introduced at 1985 as GNU projects licenses. First version of GNU GPL was made at 24 feb. 1988. First version of BSD license was made later.

2. Software was copyrightable when BSD existed, and it was developed many years before the initial version of BSD license.

The main idea is: BSD is developed not for freedom. If someone want libre OS and considering BSD as an option - it's better to go to M$ Windows without intermediate steps.

#56 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-10 04:45:27

Camtaf wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, 'unix' started out at AT&T as part of their phone system, but was made available to others, for a price, which then became Unix in its various forms.

BSD was a free version of unix, maintained by Berkley University, who had improved it no end, & was giving it away freely, until law makers/upholders got involved, as the kernel & a few other files were still in copyright.

This is where the GNU software came from, all but the kernel & a couple of files, which had to be replaced over time, to make BSD totally free, to distribute, alter, & use, as long as the Berkley copyright files were distributed with each copy.

I believe you will also find that the internet is run on BSD.

1. BSD was extended version of UNIX maintained by University of California.

2. GNU GPL was made before BSD license. Ancestors of GPL were also made long before as licenses for specific projects.

3. GNU software is irrelevant to BSD even from historical position. It was developed as libre software and UNIX architecture was chosen not because of BSD. They say UNIX way and nobody says BSD way.

4. BSD is the OS of PlayStation 4 and Nintendo Switch. BSD is also sharing important part of source code with Windows and Mac OS X. At the same time BSD fans screams when someone trying use BSD licensed code to improve libre software like GNU/Linux. That's a nice contribution to freedom, right? wink As for BSD as an internet server - it has insignificant share and most of it is the OS for small webservers located in CIS countries. So no, internet isn't running on BSD.

#57 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-09 10:37:53

freemedia2018 wrote:

until 1980, software wasnt copyrightable in the usa (where both bsd and the gpl are from) and thus the notion of "software freedom" had little reason to exist before the 80s.
bsd started in the 1970s, with work on 1bsd beginning in 74 and 2bsd being released in 79.  so im not sure its fair to say it "was created not for freedom" or possible to say "it was initially created to help proprietary software development" although the first full bsd system did come out in 1983.

Original BSD was proprietary software. Later it was licensed under the terms today known as 4-clause BSD License. This license was necessary only for academic research grants. It has nothing to do with freedom. Later BSD licenses were also made not for freedom - some clauses were removed because they caused some serious disadvantages.

freemedia2018 wrote:

its true that gnu is most likely the first operating system created specifically to advance software freedom though. and i think its unlikely that there will be a better option in the near future, though im still in favour of people exploring options.

BSD is still not an alternative. If BSD will have dominant share in the field of libre software it will be greatest catastrophe for community because every proprietary software developer will take it to make technically better but proprietary solution. This is the end of progress. The better option is to fork Linux and reorganize it into community maintainable project. Now it's optimized for corporate invasion. Community made most of Linux. There is no reason for rejecting this code.

#58 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-09 05:25:31

yeti wrote:
ToxicExMachina wrote:

It's not a good time for switching to non-linux OS. The greatest libre software environment need concentrated support of every user - not escape to weak freedom. It's better to prepare to fork Linux. I sure a lot of significant developers will support the fork.

There is no "one size fits all"!
And diversity is a good thing!
And the BSDs sure are an alternative and the BSD license is even more freedom than the dimension GPL gives.

Please tell what you do and why but don't tell others what to do or not to do.

Thanks!

Linux is not about "one size fits all". Linux is about "make your won solution".

At a large scale BSD gives much less freedom than GPL. GPL gives freedom (GNU/Linux) - BSD mostly harms freedom (Orbis OS from Sony PS4 is FreeBSD, Intel ME spyware is Minix, etc.).

In total: BSD is not an alternative. BSD is the same corporate doghouse as SystemD. Now GNU/Linux is the only OS capable to fight with proprietary systems.

#59 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-09 05:19:51

freemedia2018 wrote:
ToxicExMachina wrote:

It's not a good time for switching to non-linux OS. The greatest libre software environment need concentrated support of every user - not escape to weak freedom. It's better to prepare to fork Linux. I sure a lot of significant developers will support the fork.

im totally fine with people exploring bsd as a form of research. id like to hear what they find.

what i dont think is that its a sound political move. there was never a point in bsd history where they werent working with one corporation or another. the notion of bsd independence seems like pure mythology to me, though it wouldnt take any effort to convince me that there are a few facts, only that they add up to much.

we worry (and probably should worry) about intel or microsoft putting freely-licensed code in our init because we dont like its purpose. but many of us welcome non-free code that runs in kernelspace when we dont even know its purpose.

when it comes to the latter, the bsd ecosystem is already worse than ours. ive noted at least one effort to fix that-- libertybsd, but other than as research i think bsd is a step backwards. which youre very welcome to take but i question the logic of it-- i dont question the motivation, i can understand that perfectly well and i sympathise. if you do switch to bsd, at least come back and tell us what you learn. i tried it right before switching to devuan in 2015 and i think bsd is extremely interesting.

This is the reason why I say that BSD are best friends of proprietary software companies. In fact BSD was created not for freedom - it was initially created to help proprietary software development on the educational and academic basis. The main principle of BSD don't let it to become technically superior than proprietary software. So forking Linux will be much more preferable way than switching to obviously less developed BSD.

#60 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-09 05:10:20

sgage wrote:

What is wrong with LP? Does he really have Linus-envy, and want to have his own Lennax? Why can't he just stop? I have a bad feeling about this...

He is just doing what his masters say him to do. Without corporate support he is just another tech-hipster unable to make anything really useful. There are a hundreds or even thousands of similar persons. Corporations gave him a dog house at yard so he's doing everything to make them happy. Of course, it's also about "Look! I am honored to be a part of something big! You are inferior and worthless maggots! I am greater than all of you!". Corporations give him bones (money for conference, ability to demonstrate his position, etc.) and he thinks it's good.

#61 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-09 04:53:29

Nili wrote:

I do not care anymore. IMO, It's not too late to think of any other non-Linux system. I'm already practicing my hands with BSD. I'm looking at Haiku aswell. Instead of learning another Linux OS I find it more reasonable to use a non Linux OS.

Curiously, I installed Debian 10 a couple of days ago and didn't hold it for more than a few hours. Still no to"C:\SystemD" for me.

It's not a good time for switching to non-linux OS. The greatest libre software environment need concentrated support of every user - not escape to weak freedom. It's better to prepare to fork Linux. I sure a lot of significant developers will support the fork.

#62 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-09 04:49:22

golinux wrote:

We always knew it wanted to be the systemd OS.

An idea on statistics:

1. Make independent vote with both Debian mailing list options and correctly written options as two separated votes.
2. Invite only Debian developers and maintainers (including the ones who were banned without proper reason). Explain that an independent voting place is important because of censorship in Debian communication services.
3. See how much developers want to develop Debian as SJW/GNOME instead of keeping it as GNU/Linux.

#63 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-09 04:36:54

fanderal wrote:
ToxicExMachina wrote:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-a … 00002.html

Options for voting are very interesting: according to description every option (except further discussion) is for SystemD.

Thanks for the link. I agree. Seems every choice allows non-systemd efforts and/or objections to be overruled, nullified or ignored.

It doesn't mean every non-SystemD effort will be ruined. It's just a step forward to Debian collapse. After the collapse most of parasites will flee away and community will be able to rebuild this great distro with new experience. However, I hope there will be another solution without total collapse. This is not the end.

#64 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-07 18:47:40

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-a … 00002.html

Options for voting are very interesting: according to description every option (except further discussion) is for SystemD. There is also sjw-related stuff in description for some of options.

Another interesting fact: systemd-homed will be merged with SystemD code very soon. It looks like someone want to turn Debian into SystemD-exclusive for systemd-homed promotion.

#65 Re: Off-topic » is anybody else interested in the # of free sw projects msft controls? » 2019-12-07 18:15:38

freemedia2018 wrote:
ToxicExMachina wrote:

Let's see where is the real problem:

In fact community made libre software environment based on the GNU project. Community killed proprietary UNIX systems with GNU/Linux and improved software. Now anti-human corporations use weakness of some community participants to steal everything. Corporations bribed them, created corporate-style places for them, and now corporations are trying to destroy any community initiative.

just to give you an idea of how much we are on the same page about that, i recently said:

i have a problem with free software being increasingly taken over by large companies that dont care about us and even try to stop us from having our own solutions. first they lend a hand, then they take whats ours with both hands. then they say theyre the ones who really made it anyway.

why does that matter? they think they have a right to control it.

They don't think about rights or ethics - they are just trying to steal everything. Corporations know they can't do anything to harm freedom when community is strong.

#66 Re: Off-topic » is anybody else interested in the # of free sw projects msft controls? » 2019-11-20 06:21:24

freemedia2018 wrote:
ToxicExMachina wrote:

I think Ian Jackson just don't care about libre software - he care about his own ambitions even if it harms community and freedom. Either he don't understand the fact that SystemD, waylanD, GNOME, Pshshshsaudio, anti-human corporations and their organizations, sjw, proprietary software, etc. are parts of a whole disaster or he want to make everything worse.

he might not care about whats libre-- i dont know, what i do know is that among the people who stayed with debian, he has spent a great deal of effort throwing his veteran status into supporting init freedom.

Init is just another battlefield. It's important to fight for init freedom but it's not enough. Without understanding the situation and corresponding actions it's pointless. I have emailed a questions to Ian Jackson about his involvement in anti-RMS statement in GNU and his answer very disappointed me not because he confirmed he agree with the statement (I respect freedom of choice) but because of his argumentation.

freemedia2018 wrote:

if im wrong about that, it resolves the two issues at least. init freedom isnt the only freedom, but its one of the more underrated and underrepresented freedoms. steve litt calls the problem "gratuitous interdependency", i call it redix (anti-posix) and alexandre oliva of the fsf is even entertaining the concept of "punix" (a watered down, corporate monopoly posix to undermine the standard.) the catchiest one so far is "osps" (open source proprietary software) which does a very good job of illustrating the direction they are headed in, though i hate to use a term that lends undue credence to "open source" in the first place.

Let's see where is the real problem:

In fact community made libre software environment based on the GNU project. Community killed proprietary UNIX systems with GNU/Linux and improved software. Now anti-human corporations use weakness of some community participants to steal everything. Corporations bribed them, created corporate-style places for them, and now corporations are trying to destroy any community initiative. Corporations created illusion that they help is the only way of development, and now they're turning this illusion into reality. The marker of corporate place for community (concentration camp for community members) is CoC and a vital share of corporate money. This is how "open source" became a title for "This is software for you, our slaves. You will develop it for us and you will hope we will hire you. You will do anything we say. You will say everyone this slavery is our mercy and it's the only good possible in life. You will serve us and you will give us everything you have for a slim chance of better life.".

Of course, it's simplified description and it consider only one side of the problem.

#67 Re: Off-topic » disable touchpad without disabling trackpoint [SOLVED] » 2019-11-20 05:11:59

I know simple solution: reboot, enter the CMOS Setup, disable touchpad, save changes, boot Devuan.

For coreboot/libreboot the following thing will probably work:

https://wej.k.vu/coreboot/coreboot_on_t … kpad_x220/

One thing that was especially of interest to me is the ability to disable the touchpad, since I don't like using it and very much prefer the Thinkpad's track point. Fortunately it is possible to disable it with Coreboot and nvramcui makes it pretty easy to change.

#68 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » amdgpu-pro + ascii on kernel 4.19 bpo ? » 2019-11-20 04:50:08

kapqa wrote:
ToxicExMachina wrote:
kapqa wrote:

well, i just wanted to use AMD VCE for video encoding in HandBrake and it does require the AMDGPU-PRO driver.
i have seen that the opensource has good benchmark but some features seem only available with the amd drivers, hence my timid try to install them.

thanks rolfie, i tried also with bpo.6, it did not make a difference (for now). maybe i just it wrong.

According to official info it's based on ffmpeg: https://github.com/HandBrake/HandBrake/ … S.markdown

You don't need AMDGPU-PRO driver. You can try vdpau or vaapi with amdgpu driver.

I did use this guide here, and with Ubuntu 18.04 could get it to activate, however, it would also need some vulkan kit

https://handbrake.fr/docs/en/latest/tec … o-vce.html

according to AMD release notes for AMDGPU_Pro Driver (19.30)

To use the Vulkan driver in this stack, Vulkan SDK version v1.1.109.0 needs to be installed. The SDK can be downloaded from: https://vulkan.lunarg.com/sdk/home

Vulkan and VCE are available via libre driver: https://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature/#index1h2

You don't need AMDGPU-PRO for that.

#69 Re: Off-topic » your irc client » 2019-11-19 08:07:33

seeker wrote:
ToxicExMachina wrote:
seeker wrote:

Are either of these available through the available packages? I have looked for "qtox" but it is not found in Synaptic. Just using the "tox" keyword does not bring back any names I recognize.

Tox is dead. I wouldn't recommend to waste time on it. It's insecure and half-working solution. Tox also can't replace IRC.

What does everyone recommend as a replacement?

There is no need to replace Tox. It was defective project from the beginning of development.

#70 Re: Off-topic » is anybody else interested in the # of free sw projects msft controls? » 2019-11-19 08:03:09

freemedia2018 wrote:

the petition he signed to remove stallman from the gnu project

I think Ian Jackson just don't care about libre software - he care about his own ambitions even if it harms community and freedom. Either he don't understand the fact that SystemD, waylanD, GNOME, Pshshshsaudio, anti-human corporations and their organizations, sjw, proprietary software, etc. are parts of a whole disaster or he want to make everything worse.

#71 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » amdgpu-pro + ascii on kernel 4.19 bpo ? » 2019-11-19 07:38:11

kapqa wrote:

well, i just wanted to use AMD VCE for video encoding in HandBrake and it does require the AMDGPU-PRO driver.
i have seen that the opensource has good benchmark but some features seem only available with the amd drivers, hence my timid try to install them.

thanks rolfie, i tried also with bpo.6, it did not make a difference (for now). maybe i just it wrong.

According to official info it's based on ffmpeg: https://github.com/HandBrake/HandBrake/ … S.markdown

You don't need AMDGPU-PRO driver. You can try vdpau or vaapi with amdgpu driver.

#72 Re: Off-topic » your irc client » 2019-11-18 12:09:19

seeker wrote:
xunilog wrote:

You're sticking with IRC? Not interested in tox?
Both the qtox and utox clients are multiplatform https://tox.chat/clients.html

I'm intrigued by tox, have tested both the client apps I mentioned above, but I'm not actively using 'em (nor IRC).

Are either of these available through the available packages? I have looked for "qtox" but it is not found in Synaptic. Just using the "tox" keyword does not bring back any names I recognize.

Tox is dead. I wouldn't recommend to waste time on it. It's insecure and half-working solution. Tox also can't replace IRC.

#73 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » amdgpu-pro + ascii on kernel 4.19 bpo ? » 2019-11-18 11:08:59

There is no wonder it doesn't work. AMDGPU-PRO support only Ubuntu 16.04 and RHEL 7.2/6.8

You have to use at least the same kernel as in Ubuntu 16.04. Or you can try to install userspace libraries manually... but I don't see and point to use AMDGPU-Pro. Mesa has great OpenGL support and AMDVLK can be installed separately. May be proprietary OpenCL implementation... But ROCm is already better for Polaris and newer GPUs.

#74 Re: Forum Feedback » Much ado about nothing » 2019-11-12 09:43:07

freemedia2018 wrote:

long term i think such a fork is inevitable, but social problems often require cultural solutions. technical solutions can help, though a lot of people put much more stock in them than is reasonable-- for example, the way that facebook and twitter connect the world "like never before" helps things like the arab spring, but are showing their limitations (censorship) and costs (surveillance) as well. there has to be some cultural shift, people who show apathy wont be rescued by all the technological marvels in the world.

Technology is a part of human culture. There are both right and wrong ways of technology usage. Suitability for here and now doesn't mean right way. Actual social media format (facebook/twitter/etc.) is the example of the wrong way. People just don't know that the world communication is not a merit of such social media.

General mechanism (primitive description):
1. Make an illusion.
2. When some critical mass of people believe the illusion is real allow them to force others to live according the laws of the illusion.
3. Transform the illusion laws into real ones.

In case of facebook:
1. Advertise social media service and let people use it as the only and one way of communication.
2. A lot of people use this service. Others have to use it too to communicate with them.
3. "What? No facebook? Are you sociopath? You MUST create your own facebook account!", "We won't hire you because you have no facebook account. It's our company policy.", "I don't care about other sites - I've got everything in facebook!", etc.

#75 Re: Forum Feedback » Much ado about nothing » 2019-11-11 07:37:21

pdwalker wrote:

If anyone has been watching what has happened to the Linux Kernel development, then it should serve as a warning when you let the SJWs get control things.

Ruthlessly judge people on the quality of their contributions, rather than their "wokeness" credentials.

A lot of people think SJWs are "leftists" but it's not true. They are just a corporate tool made with the only aim to attack and destroy community (corporate/industrial terrorism as is). Linux is extremely big heap of code. It's too hard to maintain this heap only with community efforts. Corporations are happy to keep it so ugly because this is their power. By the way, BSD and derivatives can't be solution because all of them are under corporations much longer than Linux.

So the only way I see is to fork Linux or make brand new compatible kernel suitable for community driven development (GPLv3 is vital condition). Such technical solution will be very helpful for eliminating non-technical problems like parasite infestation.

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