Install from Ventoy

Boina · 2023-10-21 17:27:06

Hello all

Is it possible install a netinstall iso from Ventoy?, I'm trying with daedalus, image boot finish because a CD ISO was not found.
Some time ago tried with chimaera with success

Regards and thanks in advanced

ralph.ronnquist · 2023-10-21 23:29:27

I don't know whether ventoy keeps the ISO as a partition, and if not, you have more thorny path ahead of you. Basically you'll need to ensure the ISO partition is appropriately labelled DEVUAN501.

Technically it would be possible to patch a ventoy ISO copy (as file image) to be legacy bios bootable without the preamble stage, but UEFI boot requires the preamble and the ISO as a duly labelled partition.

Camtaf · 2023-10-22 08:31:53

I don't know if a net install will work, but Devuan Live will install OK from a Ventoy pendrive, as will Crowz (JWM) - & lots of other distros.

joril · 2023-11-02 11:04:04

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

I don't know whether ventoy keeps the ISO as a partition, and if not, you have more thorny path ahead of you. Basically you'll need to ensure the ISO partition is appropriately labelled DEVUAN501.

I'm facing the same problem, I'll try asking on the Ventoy forum

Camtaf · 2023-11-02 14:18:58

Just in case we are not clear, you create a Ventoy pendrive from the files downloaded, then you copy your distros onto the pendrive, each distro is added to the Ventoy start menu, from which you start the desired distro, when you shut down the distro, Ventoy asks you to press return/enter key to finish using the distro, so that you can remove the pendrive.

Because Ventoy loads the chosen distro, it will run as it would if it were the only distro on the pendrive - so, I expect a net install .iso will allow you to install to your chosen disk.

rolfie · 2023-11-02 15:05:56

Well, currently ~~neither Bookworm nor~~ Daedalus (5.0.0 and 5.0.1) will run from a Ventoj stick ok. There have been changes in the graphics that are incompatible with Ventoj.

I have seen a claim that using the grub-mode might be a workaround, haven't tried it yet.

Older versions are fine.

Edith: My mistake, confused Bookworm behaviour on Ventoj with boot issue in Virtual Box and efi mode. Bookworm works fine from Ventoj.

Last edited by rolfie (2023-11-03 18:59:05)

snork · 2023-11-02 20:43:28

I'd like to see this work properly as well. I can confirm that Chimaera netinstall disks work fine via Ventoy, and Daedalus netinstall disks (or at least the x64 5.0.0 disk) do/does not. Ventoy provides the user with a partition on the USB drive that can be filled with ISO images, when booted it will present the user with the list of ISOs on the USB drive and allow the user to select which one to boot. When I select the Daedalus netinstall I get the Devuan installer boot menu, the "Devuan preamble" part, and then:

mount: mounting LABEL=DEVUAN500 on /cdrom failed: No such file or directory
mount: mounting UUID= on /cdrom failed: No such file or directory

Those two lines are repeated five times, followed by:

*** failed to mount the cdrom
*** Starting emergency shell ...

and then I am dropped to a busybox shell. Right after selecting an ISO image the user is presented with a choice of "normal mode", "grub2 mode", "memdisk mode", and file checksum. None of these options seems to help get the installer to start [for me]. Normal mode gives the above error, grub2 mode just returns to the list of ISO images, memdisk mode says it is copying the ISO to memory and then gives the same error as above. File checksum mode just gives a submenu allowing the user to generate various checksums on the selected ISO.

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

I don't know whether ventoy keeps the ISO as a partition, and if not, you have more thorny path ahead of you. Basically you'll need to ensure the ISO partition is appropriately labelled DEVUAN501.

Aye, this does seem to be the rub. It would appear as though the installer [since we are past the Ventoy part at this stage] is trying to mount the parition labeled DEVUAN500 at /cdrom but there *IS NO* partition with that name since it is still just an ISO image. I personally do not know what is going on behind the scenes in the installer here but that would make sense to me.

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

Technically it would be possible to patch a ventoy ISO copy (as file image) to be legacy bios bootable without the preamble stage, but UEFI boot requires the preamble and the ISO as a duly labelled partition.

If I knew how to perform such a patch I would be happy to try it and report my findings. :-)

I'd also be interested in knowing if anyone has any known-UEFI-only images they can point me to that I can try. So far Devuan Daedalus is the only image I have tried that has had this problem.

s.

rolfie · 2023-11-02 21:55:30

May I add a few lines (on Ventoj 1.0.94 from July this year):

What snork describes is what happens with legacy boot of Ventoj/Devuan.

All in efi mode, netinstalls:
5.0.0 normal mode I just get an _ and have to use the Reset button.
5.0.0 grub mode: no bootfile found for efi

5.0.1 normal mode: the first menu comes up ok, can select expert install, end in the mount cdrom scenario described before.
5.0.1 grub mode: ~~have to repeat the test, can't decipher my scribbling~~ no bootfile found for efi

Strangely enough grub mode produces an efi error.

An old preview dated 220523 in normal mode boots to the Choose Language screen, same as older releases. Same for Debian 12.1. Others like gparted life 1.5.0-1, mint 21.1 ... work fine.

Edith: added the 5.0.1 grub mode test

Last edited by rolfie (2023-11-03 19:00:41)

ralph.ronnquist · 2023-11-02 23:13:46

Camtaf wrote:

.. each distro is added to the Ventoy start menu, from which you start the desired distro..

The daedalus ISO offers a menu of alternative boot methods; does "start the desired distro" start with presenting that menu?

The ISO is further a hybrid ISO with 3 separate boot equipments that cater for different use cases: whether the media is presented as a harddisk or a cdrom and whether the boot loading is by legacy or UEFI bios. Which use case does Ventoy present?

Evidently Ventoy is able to start a kernel (which kernel?) and unpack the preamble.gz of the daedalus ISO. Then the init script of that fails to find the partition.

For sure, that init script could be improved to scan for image files and loop-back mount that for loading the actual installer (initrd.gz) and also for again, later presenting the ISO as block device for that installer. Is anyone up for assisting with making such script improvement?

E.g. at the emergency shell, install the loopback module with max_part=16, then mount the partition containing ISOs, then loopback mount daedalus as isofs (might need to load the module first), then unpack its /boot/isolinux/initrd.gz onto /target. After that it's just a matter of switching to /target as root filesystem (though with certain environment passed on)... You can inspect the current /init script of preamble.gz or at the emergency shell prompt to get an idea.

pcalvert · 2023-11-03 01:12:34

The problem with Ventoy is, that because of the way that it works, it must be constantly updated. And what that means is that when a new distro is released, there is a chance that Ventoy won't work (until it is updated to fix the problem).

Here is a similar solution that does not have that problem: Easy2Boot.

Easy2Boot has its own problems, but it is much less likely to fail when used to boot a newly released distro.

I like and use Ventoy, but I think it is a good idea to keep Ventoy and Easy2Boot USB drives on hand for better flexibility. On the other hand, since Easy2Boot now includes Ventoy, that may be the better solution, particularly if you want to minimize the number of USB drives dedicated to this purpose.

ralph.ronnquist · 2023-11-03 01:19:27

Having had a sniff at Ventoy I see that it uses an exfat filsystem, which is not included in preamble.gz. Perhaps it's sufficient to add that ...

EDIT: no it's not sufficient.

Camtaf · 2023-11-03 09:41:55

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

Camtaf wrote:
.. each distro is added to the Ventoy start menu, from which you start the desired distro..
The daedalus ISO offers a menu of alternative boot methods; does "start the desired distro" start with presenting that menu?
The ISO is further a hybrid ISO with 3 separate boot equipments that cater for different use cases: whether the media is presented as a harddisk or a cdrom and whether the boot loading is by legacy or UEFI bios. Which use case does Ventoy present?

Ventoy will start up in either MBR or UEFI, depending on your computer, & it starts the distro as it would start if it was the only one on a pendrive, all boot options of the distro remain available.

Camtaf · 2023-11-03 09:43:44

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

Having had a sniff at Ventoy I see that it uses an exfat filsystem, which is not included in preamble.gz. Perhaps it's sufficient to add that ...
EDIT: no it's not sufficient.

I download the Linux version - https://www.ventoy.net/en/download.html

Edit: https://www.ventoy.net/en/faq.html

Last edited by Camtaf (2023-11-03 09:48:40)

snork · 2023-11-05 02:08:45

pcalvert wrote:

Here is a similar solution that does not have that problem: Easy2Boot.
Easy2Boot has its own problems, but it is much less likely to fail when used to boot a newly released distro.

I decided to try Easy2Boot, and while it is able to boot the Daedalus netinstall, it is pretty crazy. The Easy2Boot web site has modal ads for for-pay ebooks on how to actually use the product, Amazon affiliate links, and a layout that may cause seizures. The install procedure is documented, but is a mess to follow, and once you have it running it has multiple layers of menus and even a classic 1997 animated image in the boot menu. I think you need to create .XML files for each Windows ISO you want to use, but it is hard to tell without having paid for the PDFs describing how to use it. Ultimately, East2Boot is hard to take seriously and I just wish Ventoy could boot the Daedalus netinstall ISO.

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

E.g. at the emergency shell, install the loopback module with max_part=16, then mount the partition containing ISOs, then loopback mount daedalus as isofs (might need to load the module first), then unpack its /boot/isolinux/initrd.gz onto /target. After that it's just a matter of switching to /target as root filesystem (though with certain environment passed on)... You can inspect the current /init script of preamble.gz or at the emergency shell prompt to get an idea.

I wish I could help figure it out, but this looks like it might be above my pay grade. :-(

boughtonp · 2023-11-05 12:45:27

joril wrote:

I'll try asking on the Ventoy forum

It's both polite and helpful to provide links when cross-posting:

https://forums.ventoy.net/showthread.php?tid=2722

If you also added a link to this thread there, it would allow Ventoy people to see the things posters here have suggested/tried, which can both save them repeating what has already said, and may help diagnosing the issue.

Last edited by boughtonp (2023-11-05 12:45:42)

rolfie · 2023-11-05 17:49:55

Updated my Ventoj to 1.0.96 and also tried the server and the desktop iso, all the same.

ralph.ronnquist · 2023-11-05 20:33:43

Yeah, the core problem is that the ISO is not available as a mountable partition to the installer, but instead the installer would need to search for it as an image file among the available drives and partitions. It's a whole new use case collective that the installer is (was) not prepared for.

Otoh it's not terribly complicated to add such a search to it; possibly something coming out sooninsh.

boughtonp · 2023-11-06 14:42:18

rolfie wrote:

Updated my Ventoj ...

Your "y" key is clearly working... so, why?

rolfie · 2023-11-06 16:19:54

To make sure the latest version is on the stick finally? And that does not change the issue with the Daedalus media?

brocashelm · 2023-11-07 20:59:30

In my experience, Ventoy has been a smooth experience. All I had to do was format the USB thumb drive with the program, and then copy and paste individual ISOs onto its path. Once that's done, I just do a safe removal prompt and wait a short while until Thunar says it's OK to physically unplug the device (yes, it does seem to take longer for EXT4 partitions, but it's not that big of a deal if you do this ahead of time). I then test it by rebooting and seeing the menu with the ISOs available. I have had minor troubles on UEFI-only systems, but I just have to select the UEFI option on the system boot menu (just before the Ventoy USB thumb drive boots).

It's strange to me that despite its rising popularity, no GNU/Linux distro has ever packaged it for their official repositories. The official binaries from the maintainer work, and I'm not too worried about making sure I have the latest version, provided that what I use already works. It has definitely eliminated any further need for other live USB programs. If and when I ever produce my own Devuan derivative, it WILL include a Ventoy launcher of some sort. Amazing piece of software!

rolfie · 2024-05-20 08:45:03

Update with an interesting observation on a Daedalus 5.0.1 netinstall: had to use the resuce mode, a legacy install. The Devuan preamble is displayed and then the same error message that appears in Ventoj:

mount: mounting LABEL=DEVUAN501 on /cdrom failed: No such file or directory
506635 blocks

shows up.
After some thinking then the language selection menu pops up. This is repeatable.

@ralph ronnquist: maybe this observation is a handle to fix this issue?

ralph.ronnquist · 2024-05-20 10:43:35

Which issue?

Clearly mount doesn't find any partition with label DEVUAN501 so the preamble moves on to the Ventoy patch in order to loopback the ISO image if it finds that, which it does. The loopback device is next presented to the installer which then is quite happy using that.

pcalvert · 2024-05-20 10:48:07

As I pointed out in the past, the problem is with Ventoy and not Devuan. Ventoy uses a "hacky" method to perform its "magic", and the result of this is a solution that is not very robust.

Here's what the developer of the Limine bootloader had to say about Ventoy:

“Limine is not Ventoy, nor does it try to be. I am not a fan of Ventoy as I think it is a terrible hack (because it needs to support each and every single OS (Linux, FreeBSD...) individually. For example, it needs to load its own kernel modules for various OSes in order to add "virtual drives" since ISO files aren't really made to show up to the OS kernel as separate drives).”

Source:
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. … 699#p88699

rolfie · 2024-05-20 21:05:10

I am sorry, I just reported my recent observation which took me as surprise. I am a user with no real insight how things really work together.

SlowDancer · 2024-08-08 21:46:29

So, which tool to create bootable USBs is recommended for Devuan?

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#1 2023-10-21 17:27:06

Install from Ventoy

#2 2023-10-21 23:29:27

Re: Install from Ventoy

#3 2023-10-22 08:31:53

Re: Install from Ventoy

#4 2023-11-02 11:04:04

Re: Install from Ventoy

#5 2023-11-02 14:18:58

Re: Install from Ventoy

#6 2023-11-02 15:05:56

Re: Install from Ventoy

#7 2023-11-02 20:43:28

Re: Install from Ventoy

#8 2023-11-02 21:55:30

Re: Install from Ventoy

#9 2023-11-02 23:13:46

Re: Install from Ventoy

#10 2023-11-03 01:12:34

Re: Install from Ventoy

#11 2023-11-03 01:19:27

Re: Install from Ventoy

#12 2023-11-03 09:41:55

Re: Install from Ventoy

#13 2023-11-03 09:43:44

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#14 2023-11-05 02:08:45

Re: Install from Ventoy

#15 2023-11-05 12:45:27

Re: Install from Ventoy

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#18 2023-11-06 14:42:18

Re: Install from Ventoy

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Re: Install from Ventoy

#20 2023-11-07 20:59:30

Re: Install from Ventoy

#21 2024-05-20 08:45:03

Re: Install from Ventoy

#22 2024-05-20 10:43:35

Re: Install from Ventoy

#23 2024-05-20 10:48:07

Re: Install from Ventoy

#24 2024-05-20 21:05:10

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#25 2024-08-08 21:46:29

Re: Install from Ventoy

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