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#26 2022-11-28 14:51:08

zapper
Member
Registered: 2017-05-29
Posts: 472  

Re: Lennart Poettering (Systemd) Lands at Microsoft After Leaving Red Hat

blackhole wrote:

"You are actually stating what I have been saying for at least the last 10 years - that GPL is not some anti corporate or anti capitalist safeguard, which prevents corporate involvement/takeover.  As you have noted, corporations have infiltrated free software and simply pay the people / fund the projects and in doing so achieve control and can steer those projects as they see fit.  This also means that"unfunded" projects lack/lose developers and die.  One could argue that, if the code were under,e.g. BSD 2 clause, they would just throw some donations at the project, walk away and do their own thing.  Who can say for sure.  I think that horse has bolted.

All GPL really does in a nutshell is seek to prevent a company (or an individual in fact) from taking code and "turning it proprietary".  That's really it."

That is my point, more or less. To  be clear, I was speaking of software for the core of the operating system,  however, a balance is also needed. Aka, the code needs to be completely permissive  for this to be more effective.


"I'm almost certain OpenBSD contains no "non-free" stuff - in fact there are strict policies with regards to that."

Well, you are 90% right, technically, I was speaking  of what GNU people call binary blobs and also what they call non-free. But as for the point below:

FreeBSD, I'm not so sure about.  I do know they have signed NDAs in the past and I know their focus is on providing something that works rather than something primarily provided to meet some ideological objective.  But yes, despite this - one could argue that FreeBSD is "more free" than Linux as it is not funded and controlled by a consortium of "Big Tech".  That is ironic, considering all the criticism leveled at FreeBSD over the years by GNU evangelists (while corporations crept in and stole almost everything from under their noses).."

Ironic is putting it mildly given the dbus, systemd and other over-engineered garbage that they have allowed to infect GNU.
They fail to understand that freedom restricting software can appear in other ways besides non-free licenses on said software.
Aka, they care about free licensing, so much they have overlooked that without security there cannot be privacy and withour privacy, freedom is meaningless.
Catch 22...


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#27 2022-11-28 16:16:32

blackhole
Member
Registered: 2020-03-16
Posts: 75  

Re: Lennart Poettering (Systemd) Lands at Microsoft After Leaving Red Hat

zapper wrote:

Well, you are 90% right, technically, I was speaking  of what GNU people call binary blobs and also what they call non-free.

There are no "blobs" or firmware distributed with OpenBSD to my knowledge.  Firmware is downloaded independently via a tool called "fw_update(8)", this only fetches the missing firmware required by the hardware platform.

Most Linux distributions do something similar.

zapper wrote:

Ironic is putting it mildly given the dbus, systemd and other over-engineered garbage that they have allowed to infect GNU.
They fail to understand that freedom restricting software can appear in other ways besides non-free licenses on said software.
Aka, they care about free licensing, so much they have overlooked that without security there cannot be privacy and withour privacy, freedom is meaningless.
Catch 22...

You're talking about "free in license" vs "free in spirit" (as I call it anyway)?  Yes, the point you're making is that the "ethics" of some particular software, is an entirely separate issue to the licence.

Last edited by blackhole (2022-11-28 16:18:17)

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#28 2022-11-29 14:32:22

Kelsoo
Member
Registered: 2016-12-09
Posts: 35  

Re: Lennart Poettering (Systemd) Lands at Microsoft After Leaving Red Hat

https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html

"BSD systems

FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD all include instructions for obtaining nonfree programs in their ports system. In addition, their kernels include nonfree firmware blobs.

Nonfree firmware programs used with Linux, the kernel, are called “blobs,” and that's how we use the term. In BSD parlance, the term “blob” means something else: a nonfree driver. OpenBSD and perhaps other BSD distributions (called “projects” by BSD developers) have the policy of not including those. That is the right policy, as regards drivers; but when the developers say these distributions “contain no blobs,” it causes a misunderstanding. They are not talking about firmware blobs.

None of those BSD distributions has policies against proprietary binary-only firmware that might be loaded even by free drivers."

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#29 2022-11-29 14:48:56

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 2,730  

Re: Lennart Poettering (Systemd) Lands at Microsoft After Leaving Red Hat

Kelsoo wrote:

https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html

In addition, their kernels include nonfree firmware blobs

That is categorically not true for OpenBSD. As blackhole has already mentioned the only non-free component of any OpenBSD system is the firmware, which is downloaded from http://firmware.openbsd.org/firmware/ by fw_update(8). The firmware is *not* part of the kernel and can only be downloaded after installation.


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