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#51 2024-01-29 08:49:32

oui
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 269  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

Devuan claims to be the correspondent from Debian but without systemd.

Ok.

But also with an other level!

Actually, if you want to test and operate with iso images for CD from Debian, you can use Debian images with a size from 45..47 MB! The download require a few seconds, the burning on USB requires a few seconds, and the execution is fast depending of your internet connection of course. Where are such tools to test Devuan?

Devuan will not compare itself with the other giant of Debian world, Ubuntu. But for the target of testing the new version, Ubuntu offers the reduced version Lubuntu and, in it, the a step more reduced installations way «minimal Lubuntu» (definition: only the pure desktop equipment of the already reduced version Lubuntu! It is in my opinion always to much: I would have better seen "desktop equipement base" only, also in the case of LXQT using Openbox, only Openbox without LXQT, but the main distro developers will not encourage the users but better their guy's from development offices like those from LXQT!).  Where are such tools to test Devuan?

It is so, as the testing of the actual (definition from Debian: nightly build!) Devuan testing (I speak from Ceres, but not only: also the stable version from Devuan did get new kernels from type 6.xxxx!) needs so long to download, write on usual USB sticks/cards etc. you can only do one, let the arm fall down and renounce!

Note from 20240129: see here a user friendlich approach to test a distribution, even in i686 !
https://d-i.debian.org/daily-images/i386/daily/netboot/

Last edited by oui (2024-01-29 18:32:22)

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#52 2024-01-29 10:26:33

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 471  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

@oui

dear aluma, your vision is not correct

With all due respect, why do you need that masochism?
After all, it is clear that there were no decent Linux drivers for this model, there are no and there never will be.

  Give it to the suffering in the underdeveloped countries that you are so concerned about, and the children will give you a normal computer, without unnecessary options. With a processor of approximately the same level, it’s about $100 and will work without problems.

Regards.

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#53 2024-01-29 12:39:00

oui
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 269  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

With all due respect, why do you need that masochism?
After all, it is clear that there were no decent Linux drivers for this model, there are no and there never will be.

  Give it to the suffering in the underdeveloped countries that you are so concerned about, and the children will give you a normal computer, without unnecessary options. With a processor of approximately the same level, it’s about $100 and will work without problems.

are you really TOO ... TO UNDERSTAND (you say clear and direct, I would be masochist - I prefer, myself, let the reader find himself a word for you else is it is so evident ;-) ... You did begin with insultations. Why? Is each non conform thematic for you forbidden? Will YOU in this forum mark the begin of an hunt against people thinking differently as you?), that industry PC's have the same hardware and bring or are awaiting the same problem or need Linux no reduced PC with less technical equipment and comfort to work secure?

and the style of you answer in the part concerning underdeveloped countries and their children is typical for the linuxers with the high nose having canceled the millions of existing PC yet in good condition hopping make more money, more money, more money (the rich ones did become more and more rich through the last crisis...

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#54 2024-01-29 13:39:48

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,399  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

We do not fork the debian kernel. If you have issues with it, you should direct your complaints to debian or possibly to kernel.org. Not here.

To answer your question, I don't think you need to do anything special to use refractainstaller in ubuntu, but to use refractasnapshot you need to change the initrd compression to xz. When the next version of refractasnapshot is released, you won't need to use xz compression. The new version will support zstd compression.

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#55 2024-01-29 14:45:18

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 471  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

@oui

... more money, more money, more money...

Do you adequately perceive the surrounding reality?
However, I don't care...

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#56 2024-01-29 18:34:22

oui
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 269  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

We do not fork the debian kernel. If you have issues with it, you should direct your complaints to debian or possibly to kernel.org. Not here.

To answer your question, I don't think you need to do anything special to use refractainstaller in ubuntu, but to use refractasnapshot you need to change the initrd compression to xz. When the next version of refractasnapshot is released, you won't need to use xz compression. The new version will support zstd compression.

thank you very much! I will try immediately!

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#57 2024-01-29 20:39:14

oui
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 269  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

Hi fsmithred,

as announced above I did try on the lubuntu minimal iso 24.04 Noble (experimental) from https://d-i.debian.org/daily-images/i386/daily/netboot/ (mini.iso daily build 45 mb size, only a few seconds to download or burn with dd on usb stick!) to make a refractasnapshot more following your recommendation (*1 from today. it does not go!

after you start the snapshot with option 1, no CD image ISO build from refractasnapshot.

after you make a second start with option 2, you get an ISO in /home/snapshot but the subdire /home/work continue to exist.

if you burn the new gotten ISO on USB stick and mount the PC with it, the usual menu of refractasnapshot appears, but with following errors (very significative for the continuation!)

-----------Live Media-------------
${DISTRO} (default)
Other language (TAB to edit)
${DISTRO} (load to RAM)
${DISTRO} ...

etc.

If you start, the ISO start well until the graphic system, the graphic cursor appears, but the new system does never find the, in this case, LXQT system and does accept no entry. You can only reboot properly with CTRL+ALT+F5 and CTRL+ALT+DEL.

(*1 but you have to change in /etc/refractasnapshot.conf the lines

kernel_image="/boot/vmlinuz"
initrd_image="/boot/initrd.img" !

Last edited by oui (2024-01-29 20:42:01)

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#58 2024-01-29 23:07:24

GlennW
Member
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 552  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

Hi, this is from the far-outside... but,

Have you considered installing a kernel that works and then getting the source and rebuilding a kernel just for your computer?

like make oldconfig...new kernel with old kernel settings.

There are quite a few different ways, but make old can be made to work, also make ...

here is a snippet of some notes I have... but I haven't had to compile my own kernel for a long time now. So your mileage may vary.

* Restart config...

"localmodconfig" make target. It does pretty much what you ask—it determines what modules you have running, and generates a .config making sure those modules are built. The 

"localyesconfig" target will compile those modules statically into the kernel rather than creating modules.

make
make modules
make install

You may look this up on the web. kernel.org comes to mind.


pic from 1993, new guitar day.

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#59 2024-01-30 11:10:53

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 471  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

This is a convertible laptop with a touch screen.
Judging by the Ubuntu forum, one of the most problematic devices. Mainly because of the keyboard and touch screen. This is despite the fact that Ubuntu 10.04 is recommended by Dell.

That's why I talked about drivers; rebuilding the kernel is unlikely to help; usually the standard kernel includes support for all possible hardware.

P.S. A similar situation happened in the past with integrated Intel graphics and there is only one version of LinuxMint that works with it due to the lack of a driver and firmware.

P.P.S. Dell tried to fix the errors, but there was a question about the BIOS version computer of our critic Devuan’s.

Last edited by aluma (2024-01-30 12:18:52)

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#60 2024-01-30 13:50:18

oui
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 269  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

here is a snippet of some notes I have... but I haven't had to compile my own kernel for a long time now. So your mileage may vary.

Thank you really for your interest Glenn. My situation is the same: I did build 3 times in my live (I am very old and did immediately adopt the use of PC's as it came. My first "pc" was not a PC but the pocket calculator from Sinclair to build from Sinclair kit (ab. 1979..1980). But my second PC was the real great PC ZX81 also build myself from Sinclair kit (to appreciate: 1973 did my employer buy, after a desk computer for our activity in air conditioning technology, the first pocket calculator for the ONE under all in a staff of engineers and it did cost about the price from IBM PC ten years later (it was more than a car)! We, the other, did continue to use manually our logarythm rulers and discs and 7 short years later, I did have a «dwarf computer», but, yes, at home, assembled myself and with a clear keyboard for texts, not only for hexadecimal...) as I did try and have success (it was automatised! by Thierry Nuttens, the creator of the distro Nutyx) to build Linux from Scratch (the problem from Nutyx at this time was, that it was the pure base, what was automatised, so LFS, but not BLFS...

but why build my own kernel?

I can select a user friendly distro like Extix (probably the GREATEST fan and supporter from the Refracta tools!). Exton supply his derivatives from Debian, Ubuntu, Deepin, Devuan, Arch, and other distributors with

his own exton kernels, never with the original kernel form distributor,

and the exton kernels work all perfectly

so the motivation to build myself the kernel is not great. As I did compile my  kernel, I did yet have a old Pentium and not an i7 like today and it was long, long, very long... But at this time the kernel was small! Today, the kernel did become bigger and bigger and bigger: So it stay probably the same: long, long, very long! Why?

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#61 2024-01-31 01:30:27

stultumanto
Member
Registered: 2023-12-12
Posts: 45  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

Today 03:10:53

This is a convertible laptop with a touch screen.
Judging by the Ubuntu forum, one of the most problematic devices. Mainly because of the keyboard and touch screen. This is despite the fact that Ubuntu 10.04 is recommended by Dell.

That's why I talked about drivers; rebuilding the kernel is unlikely to help; usually the standard kernel includes support for all possible hardware.

This is potentially an important point, especially with regard to tablet/touch PCs. For instance, the kernel still supports the Wacom serial tablet interface used in many older tablet PC displays. However, kernel support won't do you much good without X11 support, and the X11 devs removed support for these devices back in January of 2022. Many tablets sold in 2012 and earlier simply will not work with the versions of this driver bundled with the last few Debian/Devuan releases.

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#62 2024-01-31 21:09:43

GlennW
Member
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 552  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

I have an ASUS RJ552 touch-screen laptop. It came with win8 installed... I have no problems with everything working. fyi.

I bought it second-hand from a tech friend...

the only probs is battery life and the speakers sound off balance, and the headphone socket...

but works perfectly with my usb sound box.. Edirole UA-25EX.

This is just info... I'm running Daedalus on it as well as my desktop.


pic from 1993, new guitar day.

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#63 2024-01-31 22:30:43

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 471  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

Judging by the Ubuntu forum, unlike Dell, Linux on the Asus Q552 works out of the box.

So Dell Latitude XT3 doesn't have any linux drivers. That's it....

https://www.dell.com/community/en/conve … a8de471d3a

P.S.  Google and DDG do not know ASUS RJ552 touch-screen laptop. I indicated the model at my own risk.

Last edited by aluma (2024-01-31 22:59:04)

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#64 2024-02-01 08:12:15

oui
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 269  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

This is potentially an important point, especially with regard to tablet/touch PCs.

this is an important detail for ALL INDUSTRY PC's (I don't know some machine PC not having some touch screen...)!

I have and use the

Wacom

tablet, mouse and pen 2d generation (after the one 1. generation I had connected with the Pentium) and it is a lot of years ago no problem at all!

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#65 2024-02-02 03:34:19

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 471  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

A simple example when the interface complies with standards at the hardware (physical) level, but is not supported by software.

I have two desktop motherboards with almost the same hardware - Asus and Gigabyte.
The BIOS of the Asus board allows loading from a USB card reader with an SD card, the BIOS of the Gigabyte does not see it, although it loads a regular USB flash drive.

At the same time, in any OS installed on the Gigabyte board, the card reader is mounted and works normally.

It's a matter of firmware and drivers.

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#66 2024-02-02 12:17:57

oui
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 269  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

you speak about the difference between a man and an eunuch... at a certain point of time did happen somewhat and the skills are not the same any more after that ...

transferred to the PC Welt It was the new kernel because so far it has been well (read the theme of the thread: «the new kernels disturb»! Until november 2023 I did NEVER have such problems!). A good man can. A eunuch can't any more. Do you want a eunuchist distribution?

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#67 2024-02-02 12:56:50

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 471  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

Until november 2023 I did NEVER have such problems  A good man can. A eunuch can't any more.

Yes, you won't be envied.
Get used to it, the years take their toll.

Last edited by aluma (2024-02-02 13:02:08)

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#68 2024-02-03 04:59:11

GlennW
Member
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 552  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

aluma
"P.S.  Google and DDG do not know ASUS RJ552 touch-screen laptop."

sorry, My mistake, it's an r552jv from ~2013

Still working quite well.

glenn@devuan:~$ inxi
CPU: quad core Intel Core i7-4700HQ (-MT MCP-)
speed/min/max: 1012/800/3400 MHz Kernel: 6.1.0-13-amd64 x86_64 Up: 4m
Mem: 1108.1/7383.4 MiB (15.0%) Storage: 238.47 GiB (9.1% used) Procs: 215
Shell: Bash inxi: 3.3.26
glenn@devuan:~$ 

Last edited by GlennW (2024-02-03 05:03:51)


pic from 1993, new guitar day.

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#69 2024-02-03 08:28:29

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 471  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

@GlennW
Thanks I got it.
I have a laptop of approximately the same class, Lenovo Y500, and I don’t know which of us is luckier. smile

He has two identical NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 650M video cards, driver support has ended, the old ones work, but I couldn’t get the keyboard buttons that control brightness to work.
And Debian seems to have stopped supporting older Nvidia drivers.

P.S. Pure curiosity of a former audiophile (homemade tube Hi-End, etc.), if it’s not a secret, do your speakers r552jv really reproduce what the manufacturer promised?

Regards.

Last edited by aluma (2024-02-03 09:49:50)

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#70 2024-02-03 22:24:41

GlennW
Member
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 552  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

I bought it off a IT tech friend when he upgraded his life. ;-)

I am not satisfied with the sound, headphone socket broken.

But if I use my USB sound device the sound is good.

Mine also has a nVidia 750m graphics, but haven't got it working as far as I can remember it defaults to the intel ....

Congrats with the tube amp, I have an el84 18w marshal clone on the shelf waiting for me to get organised. I really love this stuff! :-)

I only use the laptop when travelling and when I have broken my main desktop system.

But the keyboard lights work as expected, dimming, full on and off. and it's quite fast, even for 10yo.

I have no secrets, just privacy issues from advertisers. (mostly to save on bandwidth)


pic from 1993, new guitar day.

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#71 2024-02-04 01:27:52

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 471  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

The sadness of tube sound is that one day you come up against the need for acoustic design of the room, but our interiors require other criteria. As a result, there is a dead end in development and this hobby turns into a meaningless “listening” to various radio components. I abandoned it.

And by backlight I meant the brightness of the screen itself. The Fn+arrow keys do not work with nvidia drivers.

P.S. As far as I understand the description, your laptop has 4 speakers. That's why I asked.
But yes, in mine, too, only one remained alive. smile

Regards.

Last edited by aluma (2024-02-04 10:40:44)

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#72 2024-02-04 13:07:24

stultumanto
Member
Registered: 2023-12-12
Posts: 45  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

I have and use the Wacom tablet, mouse and pen 2d generation (after the one 1. generation I had connected with the Pentium) and it is a lot of years ago no problem at all!

USB tablets should still work, even if very old. Only tablets with a serial interface were deprecated, and only in post-2022 version of X11.

He has two identical NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 650M video cards, driver support has ended, the old ones work, but I couldn’t get the keyboard buttons that control brightness to work.

I've had similar problems on several different laptops. The keyboard backlight keys dodn't work, and evtest doesn't even show them emitting scancodes in the console. I suspect it might have something to do with the brightness_switch_enabled kernel setting, but I've never been able to figure it out. I always end up just binding my own custom hotkeys to scripts that set the backlight via brightnessctl. I find my own key bindings more convenient anyway!

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#73 2024-02-04 14:26:38

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 471  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

@stultumanto

I've had similar problems ...

In my case, perhaps this is a communication error between the Nvidia driver and DE (Trinity).

The DE buttons are visible, level icons appear, but the brightness does not change. At the same time, the xbacklight command works and I use it.

Regards.

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#74 2024-02-04 23:44:50

GlennW
Member
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 552  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

aluma:
P.S. As far as I understand the description, your laptop has 4 speakers. That's why I asked.
But yes, in mine, too, only one remained alive.

Since my last post here, I have taken the back off again to replace the battery and had a quick look,

yes I have 4 rectangle speakers, but some of them must not be working like new.

Parts are hard to come by... The wifi and bt work well. as with the dvd/cd player, flawless.

And great for ripping my new audio cd's to my music collection via usb flash-drives.

After all this time I still prefer to setup this way instead of using local networking. (mainly because I break my system so often hacking to customise the OS)

Just last night I removed some stubborn pulseaudio *.so for KDE/Plasma files and borked it again, but used my ubuntu studio install to copy the files back, lol)

A couple of reboots and it's back up and running without a complete reinstall of the OS. ;-) (I'm glad I took notes)

I haven't tried to use the screen brightness or most of the 'Fn' keys. But I will when the new battery arrives later this week.

I was fortunate enough to study and work at an Audio Engineering school and learned about acoustics and speaker design, x-overs before I got married and had children and then started to build a rehearsal/listening studio come 'home theatre' and got divorced. My maths skills were not up to it, but I did learn a lot along the way.  How to make do on a low budget.

Back on topic... I found studying the IBM tuorials for sed, grep, vi and awk really helped me when I was living on the bleeding edge, using Mandriva, Magiea and pclinux... for about 10 years. It was a great adventure, but I have found using 2nd or 3rd gen hardware the kernel is sufficent to not have to use 'make' to customise my setup. (for graphics cards, wifi cards, and usb sound modules, and speed)

This link may help...
https://www.ubuntupit.com/simple-and-us … d-in-unix/

All the best


pic from 1993, new guitar day.

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#75 2024-02-06 12:30:35

stultumanto
Member
Registered: 2023-12-12
Posts: 45  

Re: all the new kernel disturb some old PC's!

yes I have 4 rectangle speakers, but some of them must not be working like new.

Is it possible it has a setup like MacBooks, where the extra speakers are "bass speakers" on LFE channels? You could try running a surround speaker test, something like this works on my MacBooks to sound all speakers separately:

speaker-test -Dsurround21:PCH -c 4

If you get an error about the device name being wrong, check the output of `aplay -L`:

$ aplay -L | grep -i surround21
surround21:CARD=PCH,DEV=0

If you actually do have subwoofers, there may be a way to turn them on with regular output. The MacBook has a control called 'Bass Speaker Playback Switch' that, when turned on, routes regular output to all 4 speakers. You could try `amixer controls` and look for something similar. Here's how I would find the control on a MacBook, and then turn it on.

$ amixer controls | grep -i bass
numid=4,iface=MIXER,name='Bass Speaker Playback Switch'
numid=3,iface=MIXER,name='Bass Speaker Playback Volume'
$ amixer cset numid=4 on
numid=4,iface=MIXER,name='Bass Speaker Playback Switch'
  ; type=BOOLEAN,access=rw------,values=2
  : values=on,on

Maybe there's something similar on your laptop.

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