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#1 2023-07-08 13:04:51

soren
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Registered: 2023-04-30
Posts: 94  

Debian: Anatomy of An Open Source Project

This video should be required viewing for all users of debian and devuan.

https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=nyL2Fx0iNZ0

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#2 2023-07-08 14:01:23

boughtonp
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From: UK
Registered: 2023-01-19
Posts: 212  
Website

Re: Debian: Anatomy of An Open Source Project

And the following basic information should be required posting when anyone shares a video link:

Duration: 1h 24m
Channel: Microsoft Research
Shared: September 7, 2016
Description: The Debian Project is widely considered one of the most successful and influential open source projects in the world: over 1,000 volunteer programmers are currently involved in Debian development, and the formative document of the Open Source movement itself, the Open Source Definition, was originally a Debian position statement.  In this talk, Ian will discuss the origins of Debian, paying particular attention to the importance of community and our use of an open development model.  Ian will also provide an eyewitness account of the rise of Linux and open source beyond the Debian project, discuss its impact on the economic landscape, and explain why it doesn't have to be a threat to Microsoft and its business model.

It's a talk by Ian Murdock (founder of Debian), recorded between 2006 and 2007.

Appears suitable for audio consumption (no slides/etc), but because I don't have a spare 84 minutes right now, I haven't confirmed that.

Last edited by boughtonp (2023-07-08 14:01:43)


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#3 2023-07-08 16:52:48

tylerdurden
Member
From: /home
Registered: 2018-07-16
Posts: 39  

Re: Debian: Anatomy of An Open Source Project

Thanks for the link, Soren.

boughtonp wrote:

Appears suitable for audio consumption (no slides/etc), but because I don't have a spare 84 minutes right now, I haven't confirmed that.

I downloaded the video and there appear to be no slides at all.

Looking forward to watching/listening to this.

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#4 2023-07-09 08:00:20

soren
Member
Registered: 2023-04-30
Posts: 94  

Re: Debian: Anatomy of An Open Source Project

My apologies boughtonp, you are correct i should have given a better description.

tylerdurden, he was a very smart man Ian, it is a shame he is no longer with us. I found the video fascinating to listen to and he goes into the history of debian/unix/linux in such an informative way.

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#5 2023-07-14 01:05:40

tylerdurden
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From: /home
Registered: 2018-07-16
Posts: 39  

Re: Debian: Anatomy of An Open Source Project

soren wrote:

tylerdurden, he was a very smart man Ian, it is a shame he is no longer with us. I found the video fascinating to listen to and he goes into the history of debian/unix/linux in such an informative way.

I watched the whole thing a couple of days ago. While I agreed with Ian (RIP) on most issues, the part where I found myself shaking my head in utter disbelief was when he was talking about phones, specifically that he didn't care much about the OS running on his phone.

In the age of IoT ("Internet of Things"), I think we can all agree that you most definitely should be caring about the OS and services powering your phone or even your toaster (unless it's running NetBSD). The great irony is that some of the greatest spying tools ever devised by mankind are based on free and open source software.

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#6 2023-07-14 13:00:44

jaromil
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Registered: 2016-11-28
Posts: 32  
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Re: Debian: Anatomy of An Open Source Project

Thanks for this soren! (and hi!) - I'll be resharing this


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#7 2023-07-15 11:41:32

soren
Member
Registered: 2023-04-30
Posts: 94  

Re: Debian: Anatomy of An Open Source Project

tylerdurden wrote:
soren wrote:

tylerdurden, he was a very smart man Ian, it is a shame he is no longer with us. I found the video fascinating to listen to and he goes into the history of debian/unix/linux in such an informative way.

I watched the whole thing a couple of days ago. While I agreed with Ian (RIP) on most issues, the part where I found myself shaking my head in utter disbelief was when he was talking about phones, specifically that he didn't care much about the OS running on his phone.

In the age of IoT ("Internet of Things"), I think we can all agree that you most definitely should be caring about the OS and services powering your phone or even your toaster (unless it's running NetBSD). The great irony is that some of the greatest spying tools ever devised by mankind are based on free and open source software.

Im not sure what to make of his statements on phone operating systems, but 2006-7 was a different time regarding phones and phone operating systems, the only reason i could see him making those remarks as he didn't foresee apple's complete dominance and creation of the smart phone to begin with and then androids entry into the market. Like me he probably saw a phone as something to make calls and send sms and do rudimentary tasks at the time. It would be interesting if there was a follow up in later years from Ian regarding phone operating systems before his demise.

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#8 2023-07-15 11:43:42

soren
Member
Registered: 2023-04-30
Posts: 94  

Re: Debian: Anatomy of An Open Source Project

jaromil wrote:

Thanks for this soren! (and hi!) - I'll be resharing this

You are most welcome.

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#9 2023-07-15 12:18:35

tylerdurden
Member
From: /home
Registered: 2018-07-16
Posts: 39  

Re: Debian: Anatomy of An Open Source Project

soren wrote:
tylerdurden wrote:
soren wrote:

tylerdurden, he was a very smart man Ian, it is a shame he is no longer with us. I found the video fascinating to listen to and he goes into the history of debian/unix/linux in such an informative way.

I watched the whole thing a couple of days ago. While I agreed with Ian (RIP) on most issues, the part where I found myself shaking my head in utter disbelief was when he was talking about phones, specifically that he didn't care much about the OS running on his phone.

In the age of IoT ("Internet of Things"), I think we can all agree that you most definitely should be caring about the OS and services powering your phone or even your toaster (unless it's running NetBSD). The great irony is that some of the greatest spying tools ever devised by mankind are based on free and open source software.

Im not sure what to make of his statements on phone operating systems, but 2006-7 was a different time regarding phones and phone operating systems, the only reason i could see him making those remarks as he didn't foresee apple's complete dominance and creation of the smart phone to begin with and then androids entry into the market. Like me he probably saw a phone as something to make calls and send sms and do rudimentary tasks at the time. It would be interesting if there was a follow up in later years from Ian regarding phone operating systems before his demise.

The thing is Ian mentioned his Blackberry, which did more than just make calls and send texts even back then. I remember feature phones in those days equipped with a browser (Opera Mini, I believe), Internet access (WAP, GSM), etc.

I do understand the sentiment, though, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. I actually agree a phone should do just that: make phone calls, period. The term "smartphone" is a complete misnomer and highly misleading.

Maybe we should call them "computer phones" as in Quebec since those devices are neither "smart" nor mere "phones".

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#10 2023-07-15 12:35:19

soren
Member
Registered: 2023-04-30
Posts: 94  

Re: Debian: Anatomy of An Open Source Project

^ too true, maybe he had enough on his plate at the time and taking on phone OS and PC OS was a daunting task. The two have definitely not melded very well imo. In a round about way maybe he was saying mobile OS is not worth caring about, dont invest your life in them as so many people now do?

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#11 2023-07-15 13:25:40

tylerdurden
Member
From: /home
Registered: 2018-07-16
Posts: 39  

Re: Debian: Anatomy of An Open Source Project

soren wrote:

^ too true, maybe he had enough on his plate at the time and taking on phone OS and PC OS was a daunting task. The two have definitely not melded very well imo. In a round about way maybe he was saying mobile OS is not worth caring about, dont invest your life in them as so many people now do?

I'd have to check the video again but I took it more in the sense you previously explained, i.e. that a phone is a phone just like a microwave is just a microwave, so it doesn't matter much what it runs. And I'd certainly agree with that in principle. It's sort of like "Do one thing and do it well."

Feature phones were bloated to varying degrees but still primarily phones by design. I didn't mind some of the bloat that much back then because it felt somewhat like having a Swiss army knife. I guess from a security, privacy or user freedom point of view, the problem would probably have been more with abuse of the telecommunication protocols themselves rather than with the closed nature of the OS powering said phones. But I could be wrong.

On a side note, do you remember how the trend was to make mobile phones ever more compact? People even bragged about it. Just a few years later "smartphones" emerged and now we're talking specs as though they're gaming rigs yet we still pretend they're phones rather than portable pocket computers...

I mean, if I put a SIM card in my ThinkPad (heaven forbid) does that turn it into a "phone"? Is the OS suddenly irrelevant because it happens to be able to make phone calls? I think over here we know the answers to those questions but then again we have the power of hindsight, which I suppose Ian did not back then.

Last edited by tylerdurden (2023-07-15 13:28:41)

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#12 2023-07-16 17:01:20

boughtonp
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From: UK
Registered: 2023-01-19
Posts: 212  
Website

Re: Debian: Anatomy of An Open Source Project

Finally finished watching it.

39 minute talk, then 45 minutes of questions.

Interesting video. Need time to properly digest / formulate my thoughts.

-

Ian's response on mobile (1:14:02 to 1:15:12) was odd - whilst 2006-7 was before Apple/Google entered the picture, it was certainly after the emergence of mobile phones as pocket computers.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070425155108/http://www.internetnews.com/wireless/article.php/3584431 wrote:

February 10, 2006
...
Symbian held a 51 percent market share at the end of 2005, down from 56 percent in 2004. Linux came in second at 23 percent, which was double its 2004 share of 11.3 percent. Microsoft came in third upping its 2004 market share of 12.6 percent to 17 percent.


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