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#1 2022-03-16 11:34:56

migf
Member
Registered: 2017-11-11
Posts: 18  

Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

I upgraded from Bewolf to Chimaera yesterday and I have two issues:

1. I found out that in xfce4 the only option for leaving is logout, all the others (restart, shutdown, suspend, hibernate, ...) are greyed out and I could not find how to enable them

2. the slim window manager that I used before is now not available but when upgrading I was not given the chance to choose another one. How can I find info
on the alternatives?

Thanks in advance for any help!

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#2 2022-03-16 12:15:35

fsmithred
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,068  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

Sounds like something went wrong in the install. Make sure policykit-1-gnome elogind and libpam-elogind are installed.

The default display manager with xfce is still slim.

How are you looking for it that you can't find it?

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#3 2022-03-16 12:46:51

migf
Member
Registered: 2017-11-11
Posts: 18  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

Thanks for your answer.

Make sure policykit-1-gnome elogind and libpam-elogind are installed

Yes, they are.

The default display manager with xfce is still slim.
How are you looking for it that you can't find it?

The following is in the Release Notes that I duly read before installing:

Note that slim (the default Display Manager for xfce) is not accessible. Be sure to install lightdm or gdm3 if you require an accessible Display Manager.

I assumed this was true,,, but I see now that the slim package is installed and slim is running, Maybe someone should correct the Release Notes.

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#4 2022-03-16 13:00:07

migf
Member
Registered: 2017-11-11
Posts: 18  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

Maybe I have wrongly taken

accessible

as meaning unavailable, instead of supporting I/O means for impaired people, If that is the case my apologies.

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#5 2022-03-16 13:18:59

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,068  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

Yes, that's the section for Accessibility features. And the way it's written does sound weird to me. I haven't looked to see if similar wording is used upstream. Thanks for pointing it out.

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#6 2022-03-16 13:30:10

migf
Member
Registered: 2017-11-11
Posts: 18  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

You are welcome!

Any idea on how to make available the greyed logout options?

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#7 2022-03-16 16:40:02

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,068  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

Post the output of the following command to check what's installed:

dpkg -l | egrep "logind|consolekit|libpam|policykit|polkit|upower"

What commands did you use to upgrade?
Do you have chimaera, chimaera-security and chimaera-updates all enabled in sources.list (or in synaptic)?

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#8 2022-03-16 17:08:29

migf
Member
Registered: 2017-11-11
Posts: 18  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

Here is the output of the command:

ii  consolekit                             1.2.1-8                            amd64        framework for defining and tracking users, sessions and seats
ii  gir1.2-polkit-1.0                      0.105-31+devuan2                   amd64        GObject introspection data for PolicyKit
ii  libpam-cap:amd64                       1:2.44-1                           amd64        POSIX 1003.1e capabilities (PAM module)
ii  libpam-ck-connector:amd64              1.2.1-8                            amd64        ConsoleKit PAM module
ii  libpam-gnome-keyring:amd64             3.36.0-1                           amd64        PAM module to unlock the GNOME keyring upon login
ii  libpam-modules:amd64                   1.4.0-9+deb11u1                    amd64        Pluggable Authentication Modules for PAM
ii  libpam-modules-bin                     1.4.0-9+deb11u1                    amd64        Pluggable Authentication Modules for PAM - helper binaries
ii  libpam-runtime                         1.4.0-9+deb11u1                    all          Runtime support for the PAM library
ii  libpam0g:amd64                         1.4.0-9+deb11u1                    amd64        Pluggable Authentication Modules library
ii  libpolkit-agent-1-0:amd64              0.105-31+devuan2                   amd64        PolicyKit Authentication Agent API
ii  libpolkit-gobject-1-0                  0.105-31+devuan2                   all          PolicyKit Authorization API
ii  libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0:amd64 0.105-25+devuan9                   amd64        PolicyKit Authorization API
ii  libpolkit-qt5-1-1:amd64                0.112.0-5                          amd64        PolicyKit-qt5-1 library
ii  libupower-glib1:amd64                  1:0.9.23-2+devuan1.3               amd64        abstraction for power management - shared library
ii  libupower-glib3:amd64                  0.99.11-2                          amd64        abstraction for power management - shared library
rc  policykit-1                            0.105-25+devuan9                   amd64        framework for managing administrative policies and privileges
rc  policykit-1-gnome                      0.105-7                            amd64        authentication agent for PolicyKit
ii  upower                                 1:0.9.23-2+devuan1.3               amd64        abstraction for power management

I strictly followed the instructions in the Devuan site https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation … o-chimaera:

 apt-get update
 apt-get upgrade
 apt-get dist-upgrade

after changing sources.list to

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera main
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera-updates main
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera-security main
#deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera-backports main

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#9 2022-03-16 18:16:57

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,068  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

I assume you're already rebooted at least once since the upgrade. If not, try that first.

There might be a way to get it to work with consolekit, but I don't know what to tell you to do that. What I would do is install elogind and libpam-elogind and let apt remove consolekit and libpam-ck-connector.

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#10 2022-03-16 18:56:04

migf
Member
Registered: 2017-11-11
Posts: 18  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

Yes, I have rebooted many times, in particular in a hard way after an unrecoverable suspend with pm-suspend, and after slim becoming unresponsive, probably due to some problem with firefox.

Trying your suggestion:

The following packages will be REMOVED:
  libpam-ck-connector libsystemd0
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  elogind libelogind0 libpam-elogind policykit-1 policykit-1-gnome

Removing
dpkg: libsystemd0:amd64: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
 xserver-xorg-core depends on libsystemd0.
 xscreensaver depends on libsystemd0 (>= 243).
 vlc-plugin-base:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 smartmontools depends on libsystemd0.
 sane-utils depends on libsystemd0.
 rpcbind depends on libsystemd0.
 pulseaudio depends on libsystemd0.
 ppp depends on libsystemd0.
 openssh-server depends on libsystemd0.
 libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libwbclient0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libvte-2.91-0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0 (>= 220).
 libspa-0.2-modules:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libpulse0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libpipewire-0.3-modules:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libjavascriptcoregtk-4.0-18:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libgnome-desktop-3-19:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libbrlapi0.8:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libapt-pkg5.0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0 (>= 221).
 jackd2 depends on libsystemd0.
 gvfs-daemons depends on libsystemd0.
 fluidsynth depends on libsystemd0.
 emacs-gtk depends on libsystemd0.
 cups-daemon depends on libsystemd0.

well, a lot of installed things will not work...

So, I think the right thing to do is to abort now and ask for your help again...

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#11 2022-03-16 19:18:02

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,068  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

I'm glad you waited. Install libelogind0 first to replace libsystemd0, and that should prevent all those removals from happening. Then install elogind and the others.

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#12 2022-03-16 19:38:39

migf
Member
Registered: 2017-11-11
Posts: 18  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

The list is not really of removals but of dependencies, and installing  libelogind0 gives a similar one if not exactly the same:

dpkg: libsystemd0:amd64: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
 xserver-xorg-core depends on libsystemd0.
 xscreensaver depends on libsystemd0 (>= 243).
 vlc-plugin-base:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 smartmontools depends on libsystemd0.
 sane-utils depends on libsystemd0.
 rpcbind depends on libsystemd0.
 pulseaudio depends on libsystemd0.
 ppp depends on libsystemd0.
 openssh-server depends on libsystemd0.
 libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libwbclient0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libvte-2.91-0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0 (>= 220).
 libspa-0.2-modules:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libpulse0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libpipewire-0.3-modules:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libjavascriptcoregtk-4.0-18:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libgnome-desktop-3-19:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libbrlapi0.8:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libapt-pkg5.0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0 (>= 221).
 jackd2 depends on libsystemd0.
 gvfs-daemons depends on libsystemd0.
 fluidsynth depends on libsystemd0.
 emacs-gtk depends on libsystemd0.
 cups-daemon depends on libsystemd0.

So I went back, removing  libelogind0 and  installing libsystemd0.

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#13 2022-03-16 20:23:33

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,068  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

If that's the output of apt-get install libelogind0 then I have no idea what's going on. That should not happen. Try installing all at once and see if that works better.

apt install elogind libpam-elogind libelogind0

or maybe

aptitude install elogind libpam-elogind libelogind0

and see if aptitude gives you some other solutions.

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#14 2022-03-16 21:44:59

ralph.ronnquist
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From: Clifton Hill, Victoria, AUS
Registered: 2016-11-30
Posts: 689  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

Note that libelogind0 provides and replaces libsystemd0, but libsystemd0 is not similarly declared to provide libsystemd0 (it is libsystemd0 and thereby incidentally provides it) so apt gets slightly confused about that "mixed messaging" until libelogind0 gets installed.

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#15 2022-03-17 10:19:48

migf
Member
Registered: 2017-11-11
Posts: 18  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

Thanks for your answers but I am a bit at a loss on what to do: installing all at once with apt-get does not solve the problem, and with aptitude it lists a still larger list of removals that include libsystemd0 (and so creating all those dependency problems as abovd). I think that the problem here is that a lot of packages depend exclusively on libsystemd0 and do not recognize libelogind0 as a replacement to it.

Is there any safe way of letting normal users in a certain group to run shutdown and any other command related to suspending and so on? This would probably solve the issue I have.

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#16 2022-03-17 13:04:32

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,068  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

If you use apt or apt-get to install elogind and the others, it will put a lot of packages on the autoremove list, but it won't actually remove them. I'm pretty sure once you do that and libelogind0 is in the system, those packages will be taken off the autoremove list.

To see the autoremove list without removing anything.

apt -s autoremove

If it doesn't clear after libelogind0 is installed, you can reinstall consolekit, libpam-ck-connector and libelogind0. Then we can talk about setting up sudo for only shutdown/reboot.

If you use aptitude to install, then the packages will be automatically removed during the install. Don't do that here.

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#17 2022-03-17 13:42:03

migf
Member
Registered: 2017-11-11
Posts: 18  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

Yes, you are right: I have elogind, libpam-elogind and libelogind0 installed with no losses (as far as I can see).

I am going to reboot and see if there is some visible change.

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#18 2022-03-17 14:19:33

migf
Member
Registered: 2017-11-11
Posts: 18  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

Well, the suspend and other options can now be used but when I tried to suspend the system it went into a suspended state with the disks still spinning and the only  way to get back from this was a hard reset. This was what happened yesterday when I run pm-suspend.

I tried to find in the syslog something about this but to no avail. Can this be a problem with the new linux kernel (5.10.0-12)?

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#19 2022-03-17 19:06:49

alexkemp
Member
Registered: 2018-05-14
Posts: 43  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

migf wrote:

Can this be a problem with the new linux kernel (5.10.0-12)?

You also state that you are running Chimaera. Hmm. This is from my fully-updated system just now:

$ uname -r
5.16.0-0.bpo.3-amd64

$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera main non-free contrib
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera-security main non-free contrib
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera-updates main non-free contrib
deb http://deb.devuan.org/devuan chimaera-proposed-updates main non-free contrib
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera-backports main non-free contrib

$ dpkg -l | egrep "logind|consolekit|libpam|policykit|polkit|upower"
rc  consolekit                            1.2.1-8                                amd64        framework for defining and tracking users, sessions and seats
ii  elogind                               246.10-2                               amd64        user, seat and session management daemon
ii  gir1.2-polkit-1.0                     0.105-31+devuan2                       amd64        GObject introspection data for PolicyKit
ii  libelogind0:amd64                     246.10-2                               amd64        user, seat and session management library
ii  libpam-cap:amd64                      1:2.44-1                               amd64        POSIX 1003.1e capabilities (PAM module)
ii  libpam-elogind:amd64                  246.10-2                               amd64        elogind PAM module
ii  libpam-gnome-keyring:amd64            3.36.0-1                               amd64        PAM module to unlock the GNOME keyring upon login
ii  libpam-modules:amd64                  1.4.0-9+deb11u1                        amd64        Pluggable Authentication Modules for PAM
ii  libpam-modules-bin                    1.4.0-9+deb11u1                        amd64        Pluggable Authentication Modules for PAM - helper binaries
ii  libpam-runtime                        1.4.0-9+deb11u1                        all          Runtime support for the PAM library
ii  libpam0g:amd64                        1.4.0-9+deb11u1                        amd64        Pluggable Authentication Modules library
ii  libpolkit-agent-1-0:amd64             0.105-31+devuan2                       amd64        PolicyKit Authentication Agent API
ii  libpolkit-gobject-1-0                 0.105-31+devuan2                       all          PolicyKit Authorization API
ii  libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0:amd64   0.105-31+devuan2                       amd64        PolicyKit Authorization API
ii  libpolkit-qt5-1-1:amd64               0.113.0-1                              amd64        PolicyKit-qt5-1 library
ii  libupower-glib1:amd64                 1:0.9.23-2+devuan1.3                   amd64        abstraction for power management - shared library
ii  libupower-glib3:amd64                 0.99.11-2                              amd64        abstraction for power management - shared library
ii  policykit-1                           0.105-31+devuan2                       amd64        framework for managing administrative policies and privileges
ii  policykit-1-gnome                     0.105-7                                amd64        authentication agent for PolicyKit
ii  upower                                1:0.9.23-2+devuan1.3                   amd64        abstraction for power management

Something else for you to look at.

Last edited by alexkemp (2022-03-17 19:13:45)

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#20 2022-03-17 20:50:00

rolfie
Member
Registered: 2017-11-25
Posts: 644  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

migf wrote:

I tried to find in the syslog something about this but to no avail. Can this be a problem with the new linux kernel (5.10.0-12)?

Most likely not.

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#21 2022-03-17 21:18:42

migf
Member
Registered: 2017-11-11
Posts: 18  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

alexkemp wrote:
Something else for you to look at.

Thanks! I compared with my list here and there is a difference here: I have consolekit and libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0 instead of libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0. Do you think I should change to your configuration by installing libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0?

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#22 2022-03-17 21:27:46

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,068  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

consolekit and libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0 should get removed when you install elogind and libpam-elogind. And libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0 will be installed automatically.

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#23 2022-03-18 08:59:26

alexkemp
Member
Registered: 2018-05-14
Posts: 43  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

migf wrote:

Do you think I should change to your configuration by installing libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0?

Short answer: yes (but see bottom).

Long Answer: read this thread (also with a Summary of the whole process)

tl;dr: sudo apt install libpam-elogind then restart multiple times until the sun shines again.

Last edited by alexkemp (2022-03-18 09:00:59)

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#24 2022-03-18 11:54:00

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,068  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

If you're still having trouble with suspend after you get the packages all straightened out, you might take a look at this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelSuspend

Someone in IRC gave me the link. I haven't had a chance to read it, and I will be busy with other things today.

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#25 2022-03-18 18:04:21

migf
Member
Registered: 2017-11-11
Posts: 18  

Re: Chimaera: xfce4 and changing to another window manager

Thank you for all your recent posts!

alexkemp wrote:

sudo apt install libpam-elogind 

In fact this package was already installed, so I installed

libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0

and the two console-kit related packages were removed as fsmithred mentioned.

fsmithred wrote:
If you're still having trouble with suspend after you get the packages all straightened out, you might take a look at this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelSuspend

I read it and some stuiff linked from it but I couldn't do anything: they say one should trace what happens at the kernel level assuming the file

/sys/power/pm-trace

exists what is not the case here.

I also found some pages that mentioned changes that could be made on

/proc/acpi/awake

that here has

Device  S-state   Status   Sysfs node
P0P1      S4    *disabled  pci:0000:00:01.0
P0P3      S4    *disabled
P0P4      S4    *disabled
P0P5      S4    *disabled
P0P6      S4    *disabled
BR1E      S4    *disabled  pci:0000:00:1e.0
PS2K      S4    *enabled   pnp:00:02
                *disabled  serio:serio0
PS2M      S4    *disabled  pnp:00:03
BR20      S4    *disabled  pci:0000:00:1c.0
BR21      S4    *disabled
BR22      S4    *disabled  pci:0000:00:1c.2
BR23      S4    *disabled
BR24      S4    *disabled
BR25      S4    *disabled
BR26      S4    *disabled
BR27      S4    *disabled
EUSB      S3    *enabled   pci:0000:00:1d.0
USB0      S3    *disabled
USB1      S3    *disabled
USB2      S3    *disabled
USB3      S3    *disabled
USBE      S3    *enabled   pci:0000:00:1a.0
USB4      S3    *disabled
USB5      S3    *disabled
USB6      S3    *disabled
GBE       S4    *disabled
SLPB      S4    *disabled

It may happen that EUSB stands for the keyboard but I don't know how to check that.

Should I start a new thread on this and mark the current thread as solved?

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