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#2251 Re: Devuan » A philosophical diatribe: How to avoid having users - and how not to » 2018-12-22 02:10:19

As a result of this thread some changes are being made to the Devuan website.  A description of the available isos has been added to both https://beta.devuan.org/ and https://beta.devuan.org/get-devuan (the mirror/download page).  And now there are visual guides (with screenshots) for both a classic install and a graphical install.  These changes are now available on the beta site for review and comments.

https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentatio … evuan.html
https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentatio … ption.html
https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentatio … stall.html
https://beta.devuan.org/os/documentatio … ption.html

So why do they they look different than the rest of the site?   Well, an earlier version of these pages was prepared last spring for inclusion in the ASCII isos that use the debian-installer and it was easier to keep them in that format.

There is still more to come with the addition of similar walk-throughs for the refractainstaller GUI and cli.

#2252 Re: Devuan » RFC: Boobian » 2018-12-22 01:34:30

@cynwulf . . . I know 'tis the season to be grumpy but can you please take it down a notch?  None of us here are happy about the direction Debian is going.  But let's just move on and do something constructive.  Maybe you would if you even used Debian or Devuan these days . . .

@Will W. . . . As I indicated in my previous post . . . if packages that you use are removed in Debian, feel free to build and maintain them for Devuan.  If no one steps up to do that, you're on your own to get them however you want.   Just don't bitch about it here expecting someone else to do it for you.

#2253 Re: Other Issues » Problems to install and run Unetbootin » 2018-12-21 19:22:04

Here you go again.  Devuan is not compatible with Ubuntu/Mint packages.

#2254 Re: Other Issues » mintstick_1.3.9_all.deb, problem to formate usb. » 2018-12-21 19:19:17

keos wrote:

i was trying many options and not one works ... means i was not even able to install one of those ... this was the only one that i was able to install ... but ... now, i don't remember -- for your question i think that it was probably installed from some place at linuxmint.

That's a sure way to a Frankendevuan!  Please read:  https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian

How can i get mintstick for Devuan?.

A better question is why you think you need "mintstick".  Can't you just use the dd command?  If you want more features take a look at fsmithred's refracta2usb.

#2255 Re: Other Issues » mintstick_1.3.9_all.deb, problem to formate usb. » 2018-12-21 18:18:11

Result from a search at pkginfo.devuan.org:

0 results for "mintstick.py" in any (in 15.372464ms)

So where exactly did you get this deb?

#2256 Re: Devuan » RFC: Boobian » 2018-12-21 04:20:37

Will W. wrote:

And also, the most important question (from which I should probably start): if WebOOB package be still shipped by Devuan?

Sure, if someone steps up to maintain it long-term after it gets removed from Debian.

#2257 Re: Devuan » RFC: Boobian » 2018-12-21 03:17:40

Will W. wrote:

Sorry, I wasn't aware of  a discussion going on IRC, are there any outcomes of this discussion or is it still going on some channel?

It was just a link dropped on #debianfork.  Almost no discussion.

Did you join this forum just to try to stir things up?  Seems a little odd for a first entrance.

#2258 Re: Devuan » RFC: Boobian » 2018-12-21 02:47:05

A link about that was posted on IRC.  I actually saw the "boobian" thing at that link.  You can't fix stupid.

#2259 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » MATE 1.20 on devuan ascii » 2018-12-20 17:56:14

Have you read the Release Notes?  Especially the section on session management.  You also mentioned a "mintmenu".  Where did you get that?  Mint/Ubuntu pkgs should not be used in Devuan. Try a dialog native to Devuan.

#2260 Re: DIY » [SOLVED] Creating a bootable iso file » 2018-12-17 19:38:56

Ron wrote:

I just tried to make a backup, but the file is not where the app said it would be. It said the file would be in /home/snapshot, but after saying it was finished, there is no snapshot folder in home.

Maybe you're looking in /home/<user> instead of /home (which is a root directory)?  Or maybe it failed.  Check /var/log/refractasnapshot_errors.log.

#2261 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » [Solved] Moving application towards panel ends in full screen window » 2018-12-17 18:08:57

settings > window manager > advanced

Note it is even worse in beowulf.

#2262 Re: DIY » [SOLVED] Creating a bootable iso file » 2018-12-17 17:04:43

Ron wrote:

When you say different method, do you mean an app other than refractsnapshot? Or do you mean another method with refractsnapshot?

I use rsync for data backup.

#2263 Re: Devuan » A philosophical diatribe: How to avoid having users - and how not to » 2018-12-17 00:39:57

I'm dropping this link here because I think some of you might not be on the DNG mail list.   Discussion of "What should be the tasks of the Devuan Installer" which is relevant to this thread.  If you subscribe to that list you'll get a better idea of who Devuan users are.   Same goes for Devuan IRC channels.

#2264 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » [SOLVED] Firefox 60 (ESR) poor print quality » 2018-12-16 14:53:04

guuml.dev1 wrote:

The problem can be ignored on i386, but is fatal on amd_64.

Ah . . . I am running a 32 bit system.

#2265 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » [SOLVED] Firefox 60 (ESR) poor print quality » 2018-12-16 14:50:45

pcalvert wrote:
golinux wrote:

It looks fine to me too. BTW, I am using "Document Viewer", which I believe is Evince.

Here's mine:
https://transfer.sh/Ui8xn/Firefox-print-to-PDF-test.pdf
Phil

Yeah, that looks pretty bad.  I don't have a clue what the problem is.

#2266 Re: DIY » [SOLVED] Creating a bootable iso file » 2018-12-16 04:53:19

You have to create an iso before you can burn it to DVD or dd to thumb drive.  refractasnapshot from our very own fsmithred works very well but will require some RTFM.  You can download it from the Devuan repos.  Here's a link to the documentation:
https://refracta.org/documents.html

Traditionally there is a 4GB limit to an ISO file but alphalpha recently found a way to make an iso larger than that:
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2416

I tried it on my current system but had to exclude almost all of my home directory to get it down to just over 5 GB.   It boots and runs,

The companion to refractasnapshot is the refractainstaller which is what Devuan uses to install the desktop-live and minimal-live isos.

#2268 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » [SOLVED] Firefox 60 (ESR) poor print quality » 2018-12-16 02:34:18

I'm wondering what pdf viewer he's using.  I dumped evince years ago for atril (mate).

#2269 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » [SOLVED] Firefox 60 (ESR) poor print quality » 2018-12-16 01:41:48

dxrobertson wrote:

I printed the coupon in firefox quantum 64.0 as pdf and it appears ok (usable).   I would post it here, but I dont see any way to attach/include a file in this forum?

Use transfer.sh  It won't stay up for long but long enough for this purpose.

#2271 Re: Devuan » A philosophical diatribe: How to avoid having users - and how not to » 2018-12-15 18:54:11

Ron wrote:

golinux wrote:
And desktop users are NOT our target audience

This statement has me baffled. Do you mean desktop as in Desktop Environment, or as in desktop versus laptop?

Systemd is more of a threat to the stability of servers than the desktop and that is what prompted the VUAs (Veteran Unix Administrators) to fork Debian.  They run clusters of servers that power the internet and businesses. Here's an early description of the fork by one of our VUA developers (which is a bit outdated because Devuan has evolved).  This is the audience that Devuan was intended to target.

Other Devuan users are minimalists who tinker and do amazing things putting together elements in a very unique and creative way often for older hardware.   These Devuan users may never see a Desktop Environment.  So a full blown DE is irrelevant to them.

I do not fall into either category.  I am a desktop user but like it my way which is neither Ubuntu nor Mint because they insult my intelligence and personal aesthetic.

Devuan ships with DEs because users have stepped up to unravel the systemd dependencies for the DE of their choice and do the theming.  I am an Xfce user so theme it to my liking (and hopefully that of others).

#2273 Re: Devuan » A philosophical diatribe: How to avoid having users - and how not to » 2018-12-15 17:38:41

cynicfm wrote:

golinux i was only being sarcastic, that's it wink.

i mean just majority of linux users care about candy desktop environment or out of the box experience as i said. author of the topic mentioned being devuan bigger than ubuntu.
i doubt it that lots of people care about things like init system or non bloated distribution.

Ah, OK.   For most people a computer in any form is a device like a refrigerator or a microwave.  They don't understand or care about the technology.  Sadly, they only care about the appearance.   Their collective ignorance is bringing much harm to our social fabric and governance but they are blind to that.  Unfortunately, there is no cure for stupidity.  And so we slide further down the rabbit hole . . .

#2274 Re: Devuan » A philosophical diatribe: How to avoid having users - and how not to » 2018-12-15 17:22:51

nixer wrote:

I think all that is needed is a short write-up on the different installation medias available, and what will be installed by each.  Most of the content needed for this write up has already been presented within this thread.   This write-up could also be as a single Read Me text file placed with the downloadable files.  A short explanation of each media would be informative and this would help new users.

Revisions to the website to further explain and clarify are in process.

#2275 Re: Devuan » A philosophical diatribe: How to avoid having users - and how not to » 2018-12-15 17:19:19

cynicfm wrote:

There is something about devuan kernel being outdated, the newest is like 419 i think, as far as i remember devuan had 410.

Devuan is about STABILITY not cutting edge.  Newer kernels are available from backports or you can build your own.

I noticed that in general linux users will choose bloated distro with great candy graphics rather than devuan xfce.  If devuan team wants to be better than ubuntu, it should tweak a bit with xfce to make it look sweetier, so majority of ubuntu or gnome users will feel like yeah devuan xfce desktop looks much better than this fedora or ubuntu i have, lets hop to devuan big_smile. Its like im gonna use this distro cuz it has cool desktop environment better than others.

We are not trying to be "better" than Ubuntu or any other distro.  We offer an alternative. And desktop users are NOT our target audience and we are NOT trying to attract users who want shiny, shiny.   As I said before . . . there was a time when we considered shipping Devuan as a core system without ANY desktop.

And also popular distros autodetect gpu drivers so majority of users will use distro that gives them steam and their nvidia gpu configured out of the box...

You just don't get that Devuan is not an OOTB experience (and neither  is Debian).  If you want that feature, use Ubuntu or Mint or better yet lobby to have an Ubuntu or Mint Devuan Edition.  Please stop trying to turn us into something we aren't (and hopefully will never be).

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