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#2126 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Derivatives based upon Beowulf/Testing » 2019-02-05 16:52:40
However, the problem has deeper ramifications than init alone. The problem is that everything else is starting to depend on systemd: from desktop environments to drivers.
Exactly and implied in my point 2. I like to call those dependencies "tentacles". It is because of them that Devuan exists.
#2127 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Derivatives based upon Beowulf/Testing » 2019-02-05 07:15:12
1.- MX empowers the users to decide. It provides options and systemd is opt-in.
That should be qualified as "for now" because it is only a matter of time before other init systems will be dropped and the systemd dependencies will be so pervasive that Debian won't work without it.
2.- Debian also used to provide options and still does to some extent.
That noose is tightening. sysvinit is only still viable because of collaboration between Debian and Devuan devs and upstream. Many apps no longer provide scripts compatible with sysvinit because most of the devs no longer have it installed to test.
3.- It is not at all about "shinny stuff". For different reasons, I need to compile a lot of software for my work like scientific code and machine-learning stuff like Tensorflow. Some of that code you can build in any system, old or new, because the developers use stable OSs such as Debian, or, more often, RHEL or derivatives. However, most of the developers are running more current systems such as Ubuntu, Gentoo or Arch and, very often, their code depends on newer versions of several libraries than the ones you can find in Debian stable. Of course, you can install them locally and link against them anyway or use containers. However, from a practical point of view, it is a lot faster and easier if you can just compile most of the code without having to go down that road (think, for instance, about the dependencies of the dependencies and so on). This essentially forces me to use Ubuntu (Mint Xfce) at work, if I want to be productive.
Linux is not just server administrators and desktop users/distro-hoppers. There is life in between. There is also us scientists, engineers, developers, audio/video creators, designers, architects and other technical professionals. Let's say workstation users, for short. Typically, we need a trade-off between stability and currency.
Traditionally, we have been a minority but, with the advent of so called artificial intelligence our numbers are growing exponentially.
Interesting . . . thanks for that.
#2128 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Derivatives based upon Beowulf/Testing » 2019-02-05 05:23:30
In the meantime, seeing that a few of the Devuan derivatives seem pretty redundant, why don't join efforts and produce a testing-based distro which would really address currently unmet needs?
Devuan (and Debian) are about stability not shiny new stuff. Devuan will always a bit behind because of the cleanup that we have to do. Maybe there will eventually be a Devuan derivative based on testing like Ubuntu is to Debian but that would take a much deeper developer pool than we currently have on deck. In the meantime, backports supplies newer packages without the risk of a testing environment. You might also want to read what MX Linux considers to be systemd free.
#2129 Re: Other Issues » Pinning a single package » 2019-02-05 01:09:12
Thank you very much! This seems to work. :-)
Just one observation, I was struggling with this before, until I figured it out... XD
According to apt policy, in the "Pin" line it should be stated either "a=unstable", or "n=ceres", otherwise it doesn't work as expected.
I am clueless about the intricacies of pinning or apt policy. But I do know there is problem with using the "Suite" name(s) in Devuan because there are times when Debian stable is still our testing etc. Ceres, of course never changes. Hopefully a more useful response will appear for you soon.
#2130 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Software update notifications in XFCE » 2019-02-05 01:03:31
This doesn't seem to work for me, since I am using Beowulf, and gksu, which is a dependency, has been deprecated... :-/
I also beat my head against the disappearance of gksu. I worked it out in this thread on the Xfce forum. I'm not often in beowulf (VM) so will have to revisit this myself soon.
#2131 Re: Installation » [Solved] Beowulf installation image » 2019-02-04 03:40:30
Well, welcome to Devuan! 
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Keep in mind that the mini.iso is not ready for prime time so YMMV.
#2132 Re: Installation » [Solved] Beowulf installation image » 2019-02-04 02:50:15
Wait! There IS an iso image for Beowulf? O_o
And I went through installing ASCII and then upgrading with apt... XD
The mini.iso is for TESTING. There were changes made to the installer including additional questions during the process. There were calls for testing those changes on the ML.
#2133 Re: Installation » [Solved] Beowulf installation image » 2019-02-04 00:52:34
The mini.iso is considered "experimental" - ceres is in the sources.list - so breakage can be expected. The i386 mini.iso installed for me in Decmber in VB but then I had trouble after an upgrade because of policykit stuff which I think is now fixed. The approach that dxrobertson took is the safest way to get to beowulf but if you do it that way, I think you will get a merged usr which might not be desirable in some situations.
#2134 Re: Installation » [Solved] Beowulf installation image » 2019-02-03 21:03:44
@rolfie . . . there are installer-i386 and installer-amd64 mini.isos here:
https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/beowulf/main/
Drill down to "netboot". There is an option NOT to merge usr in the expert install. Uses Debian softwave graphics so be prepared.
#2135 Re: Installation » Installing devuan without pulseaudio. » 2019-02-03 00:10:55
Miyo to the rescue!!! Thanks.
#2136 Re: Installation » Installing devuan without pulseaudio. » 2019-02-02 22:18:54
@Miyo . . . More and more apps like Firefox are depending on pulseaudio with each release. In this forum and elsewhere, there have been discussions on how to substitute apulse/alsa for pulseaudio. I have not tried it (still on Jessie). Alessandro Selli offered to post a howto for apulse on this forum but it hasn't appeared yet. I will not upgrade to Firefox that requires pulseaudio until I know that I can get around it. Stay tuned . . .
#2137 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » trouble with installing new package for epson printers » 2019-02-02 16:38:24
Have you tried devuan backports?
#2138 Re: Devuan Derivatives » questions about miyo and Devuan in general » 2019-02-02 16:07:50
Look on the download page. That's where all the links to installation instructions are provided. 
#2139 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » synaptic icons » 2019-02-02 04:26:33
>This file is sourced by Xsession(5), not executed.
And? what file might this be? Could we have a link to the thread? or a thread name?
Sure. Here is the link. I did the artwork and research about the scrollbar then fsmithred took over and integrated the default theme into the desktop-base package so I suspect that's where the file resides. Maybe he'll stop by to explain. There are other ways to fix the scrollbar explained in the Xfce thread but they weren't suitable for package installation.
#2140 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » synaptic icons » 2019-02-02 01:45:29
Kool.
Didnt use emacs, but my particular icon setting (moka); yes- better.
Now, can you tell me how to change Synaptic scrolling to make it actually usable? I dont care for the gtk scrolling functionality of clicking on the scroll area and having the scroll advance in regards to where you click, instead of a "page". And worse in regards to Synaptic; the right-click into the scroll area doesnt scroll-page as it should, but scrolls at some ridiculously irritating slow pace; useless! I have to click into the package display and use arrow keys to scroll in Synaptic to get work done.
Use the clearlooks-phenix-darkpurpy theme. Old style scrollbar restored. This is the magic needed thanks to fsmithred and the Xfce forum (long thread there on this topic).
# This file is sourced by Xsession(5), not executed.
# This file configures the global behavior of GTK3 "hidden" overlay
# scrollbars and client side decorations. These settings may be overridden
# by individual users by setting the same variables to different values in
# in their ~/.xsessionrc.
BASESTARTUP=${STARTUP%% *}
BASESTARTUP=${BASESTARTUP##*/}
if [ "$BASESTARTUP" = x-session-manager ]; then
BASESTARTUP=$(basename $(readlink /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager))
fi
case "$BASESTARTUP" in
gnome-session*)
# This is GNOME, make sure settings are left at their defaults.
unset GTK_CSD
unset GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING
unset LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR
;;
*)
# Not GNOME, and the user didn't specify settings themselves,
# so set them to 0.
if [ -z "$GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING" ] ; then
GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0
fi
export GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING
if [ -z "$LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR" ] ; then
LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0
fi
export LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR
if [ -z "$GTK_CSD" ] ; then
GTK_CSD=0
fi
export GTK_CSD
;;
esac#2141 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » synaptic icons » 2019-02-01 22:43:18
the one to change is gtk-icon-theme-name ,, emacs is the traditional look, much better
A screenshot would be nice. 
#2142 Re: Other Issues » Beowulf - eudev and group kvm » 2019-01-30 17:19:07
As described here :-
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=13540#p13540
Thanks for reminding me. That's not going to happen for me this lifetime so quickly faded from memory. LOL!
#2143 Re: Other Issues » Beowulf - eudev and group kvm » 2019-01-30 16:17:37
Just curious how you did a fresh install of Beowulf. The only way to get to beowulf is via an upgrade or the mini.iso which is pretty buried in the experimental repos and not with the other releases.
#2144 Re: Devuan Derivatives » [MiyoLinux] New Releases Uploaded » 2019-01-30 16:09:03
Well done, Miyo!!
#2145 Re: Installation » Pale Moon » 2019-01-29 17:09:49
If Pale Moon were in the Debian repos it would also be in Devuan. AFAIK, Steve Pusser provides Pale Moon for Debian users from his repos. You can also get the tar from Pale Moon directly and install wherever you like.
#2146 Re: Devuan Derivatives » questions about miyo and Devuan in general » 2019-01-28 22:46:42
@cretsiah . . . Did you find the Visual Install Guides on the website (navigation is at the bottom)? The one for the refracta cli install hasn't been done yet but the GUI install is there. The procedure is basically the same. It's harder to customize a refracta install but it's very fast. You can be up and running in 15 minutes!
#2147 Re: Devuan Derivatives » questions about miyo and Devuan in general » 2019-01-28 04:22:16
Have you looked at the Devuan.org website? Many of your questions are answered on the index page, download page or os page.
#2148 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » KDE4 on Ascii » 2019-01-25 17:28:39
@golinux, Trinity is based on KDE3, not KDE4.
So much for my reading comprehension. LOLOL!
#2149 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » KDE4 on Ascii » 2019-01-25 16:33:49
#2150 Re: Intergalactic Communities » Very funny discussion about Devuan haters » 2019-01-25 16:27:22
That is unintelligible. Interesting that you would post that from the forum from which you have been banned.
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