That is what I meant by necessary and unnecessary.  It adds packages and throws packages away, as dependency structure has changed.  I In my experience though it will not throw kernels away, it will keep them unless you purge and autoremove. 
After seing this debate go on elsewhere, on the differences of apt and apt-get, there seems to have been a shift in debian on the roles and use of them.  In synaptic if you check the preferences there are three options, default upgrade, smart, and "ask me everytime".  The default seems to be plain upgrade, the smart is dist-upgrade.  It is good to be conscious of what you choose, because if you switch around repositories then getting smart may get you in real trouble.

The weird and unexpected result in Debian was under the above assumptions going from wheezy to debian jessie and not doing dist-upgrade, just upgrade, should result in a wheezy with many updated packages, no new installations.  But wheezy's apt is not the same apt, picks up jessie's desease and wants to bring it onboard.
Switching wheezy to ascii or even ceres, updating, upgrading apt first, then run a dist-upgrade and you are on devuan 100%.  It was even quicker and easier than from Debian 8.

Intel i9xx trouble

Here I am trying 2222 all over again.  Accidentally as I was called to attend something I left the iso while trying to boot in the safemode and after a while it managed to get to openbox.

On my second installation attempt (the 1st couldn't even get wifi networking on the console to work properly) where at least I got wifi to work before installation, I struggled to get X up and all attempts were fruitless.

This is what Xorg log showed:

[   173.177] (II) Module fb: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[   173.177] 	compiled for 1.19.2, module version = 1.0.0
[   173.177] 	ABI class: X.Org ANSI C Emulation, version 0.4
[   173.177] (II) UnloadModule: "fbdev"
[   173.177] (II) Unloading fbdev
[   173.177] (II) UnloadSubModule: "fbdevhw"
[   173.177] (II) Unloading fbdevhw
[   173.177] (II) UnloadModule: "vesa"
[   173.177] (II) Unloading vesa
[   173.177] (==) Depth 24 pixmap format is 32 bpp
[   173.177] (WW) glamor requires at least 128 instructions (64 reported)
[   173.177] (EE) modeset(0): Failed to initialize glamor at ScreenInit() time.
[   173.177] (EE) 
Fatal server error:
[   173.177] (EE) AddScreen/ScreenInit failed for driver 0
[   173.177] (EE) 
[   173.177] (EE) 

The puzzle is more with the live image, how would it take 10' to finally boot (open X and openbox) and suddenly, after this "accident" of being allowed the 10' not it boots uo faster?  Is the live image capable of storing a working setting for the next time?

Since booting the new installation was problematic I allowed it some time to see if it could recover.
Then I played on console for a while trying different DM, I even added LXDE, just in case some missing part of the puzzle was missing.  I even got X removed and reinstalled.

After the update of the system where kernel 4.9.04 was installed on the next boot 4.9.04 would totally freeze, while 4.9.03 would just labor while its other ttys were functional.  I added some intel firmware and refreshed initramfs and got to at least so the new kernel had the same begavior with the older one.

I don't know what it is that is missing in this sick puppy but I've never encountered another devuan or debian to be so resisting of producing a graphical screen.  I have been trying this thing ever since that iso was a couple of weeks old and I can't get it to work no matter what.

What is even more puzzling was that it eventually worked on live but the installation couldn't have the same behavior.
I noticed while on live there was missing graphic firmware something.  Also when the new kernel was built it had "potential missing modules" for i915 gfx.  I tried to feed any i915 crap I found available.  The live couldn't discover any higher resolution than 1280x....  all other isos I have ever tried go to 1920x...  so I think this is related.
By the way the 1280 resolution looks almost as bad or worse than 640x

--------------------
https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=39889
> I tried booting with modesetting driver, but it is failing

These two I understand they call for the reverse
https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comm … ideointel/
https://www.dinohensen.nl/linux/modeset … benchmark/

Good morning mommy

I tried to add ecosia plugin/search engine and it says 56 is too outdated, it now requires "at least 57" to run.
On PaleMoon ecosia runs fine.

QT5 has already developed close dependent puppet strings with the init system in debian.

You never know when a mushroom may pop-out, maybe in the fall, maybe in the spring, after a flood, or after a fire, you just don't know.

1  In terms of a system upgrade I think it is irrelevant, for a distro that is rolling and running.  Have I told you of my experiment of using an old wheezy image to install then converted to ceres?  It worked!  But since your custom work is not in the system it would be missed.  Have you (pl) thought of creating patches that would compliment an existing installation?  Sometimes "your fans" after installing and doing their own modifications they don't want to reinstall, and not everyone goes luting and scavenging on live systems and distros to transfer stuff back to the cabin (like some people we know .
2  I am with miyo on that one, GJ is a bit too extreme in that respect on my taste.  There are certain things that I want running before I get to console or wake up old tired X for his breakfast.  So based on your systems the best I have gotten getting to the DM and logged in is 178MB  But I don't see why there can't be variations and compromises or cohabitation.
3  I am with GJ this time.  I appreciate your artistic icon work and space age surroundings, I believe you have been watching too many refracta scary sci-fi movies, but I am a back to the roots with wood and stone kind of person.  Putting bullet holes on NatBo cans is all the artistic expression I desire, and a bit of guitar sliding. 
4  If I ever get the courage to start hacking source-code it would be the openbox source, but I don't see the two approaches in conflict with each other, it is more of a compliment to each other in this respect.  Your menu work (miyo) is an art in itself.  My own evolution of the dynamic menu has been to be long and skinny, an icon and three-four letters is all it takes.  For example rtlf (is gksudo leafpad), rslv (is a script feeding the quickest of openic dns servers into resolv.conf).
5  I always thought that qt was a little too flaky for me, then I tried redcore, a little birdy told me to.  MAAAAANNN...  get me out of there.  Mate, nowhere as bad as other desktops, gives me the feeling of being in a white room, like an interrogation room or a surgery room.  Creepy cold and painful.  Nothing like the good old fluffy couch called lxde.  But when it is time for work nothing beats openbox.  I've tried i3 for 43', awesome for 3hrs, jwm ...  been there seen that, ...  I forget the rest.

Devuan is just like an old VW bug (for west of the Atlantic) or a Peugeot 106 for the East.  Both boring but there is so  much you can do with  it.  Between the 200hp buggy and a stripped out rallycross monster 106 there is definitely some character.

You have empowered people to hack their own in a period where systemd had taken the fun away.  In the past few years with debian everytime you turned your head around systemd had thrown your work away and replaced it with its defaults.

PS  What I liked out of the whole experience with redcore was the music while entering the desktop  (hint hint hint).

I believe that those are the defaults in most init systems to configure and make a connection, if it is not already on from the previous level, and then to logoff the network (however it is continued) before shutdown or reboot.
One of the reasons that "some" distributions are taking too long to boot and get to a login screen (console or DM) is that if it takes too long to login to network it stays in that stage till some time-limit is reached.
At least that was my experience and that is what I think.

You want to disable wicd so you don't have networking until you decide to connect or to stop using wicd and use a different method?  If you were to remove wicd I believe part of the procedure would be to remove it from the init system as well, as if you install something else it is probably preconfigured in some default way within the init system.

Your pkgmaster repositories are not right, not all are merged, some should be devuan instead of merged

Read this:  https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/151/

1  I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but I have set in various locations the wifi with wpa/wpa2 and a passphrase, hidden ssid.  I enter the same parameters on wicd and it will not log in.  I try wep on the client side and it works. without changing anything on the host.  Then I let it run for a while, look back and has switched on its own the parameters to the right ones WPA2.

This is why I hate wicd

2  I let it discover the parameters on its own in terms of IP, dns, gateway etc.  I read the information of the connection and I make sure on the router that this particular ID is reserved for this MAC.  I go to wicd-gtk and enter the fixed ip, gateway, etc.
I reconnect, it is picking up a different IP even though nothing is connected to the previous one and I have explicitly told it to go to this IP.

It is alive I tell you!

Did you check on your connection "always connect automatically" and "never connect" on all others?
Wicd seems to work better when you don't actually get into it (the gui).

No problem, there is nothing here to spoil our day.

I do listen, to solid logical arguments and facts.  I actually pursue better arguments than mine.  Do you see me arguing with cynwulf?  I stand corrected in most counts.

I refuse all theology as nonsense.

I know of one universe, the one that till this day is recognized by mainstream science (the vast community of scientists).  It is not a conscious decision to argue, but I have to accept an argument as superior to mine and incorporate it into my thinking or I would have to contest it and present a counter argument.  If there is one reality there can not be two conflicting theories about it and both be right.  But what is to argue when the opponent says that each one of us has a different reality?  Perception maybe, reality no.  If there was more than one reality the universe would probably collapse out of its own contradiction.  If you want to paint an alternative reality, free of the guilt of the consequences, and you can, who am I to stop you.

I hear that in places with sub-zero temperature there exist swimming pools in open air roof tops that have 30'C by having heater blowers on top separating the cold air from the hot air.    They do have them because they can.

Consumers on the other hand can reach up the shelf grab a different reality, customize it to fit, and be civil with each other having different ones.  Then they can smoke a joint and see yet more realities.
Should I listen and shut up or should I criticize and analyze?  Sorry I can't accept the claim that there are purple elephants in the orange sky floating and that are real and alive.

But then someone in charge could ban me from the forum and there would be no more arguing, or debating, or disagreement.  Things would return to normalcy.  LoL!!!  And I do appreciate not being banned for arguing too much.  Don't think that I don't.

PS  Is there any pizza left?

The user delegates power, thus freedom, to the experts (developers), to judge what is safe and clean.
Everything is OK as everyone else around thinks it is ok.
As you say, if I interpret the two sentences correctly, and I believe it is true, nobody individually could possibly audit line by line, a linux kernel, a compiler, firefox, or wordpress, or even X, and since they work and everyone is using them, the experts have sent their blessings, nobody discovers an intentional security flaw (systemd zero), we assume that we are not dummies on a dummy terminal bigsister has provided for us, consumers.

Auditing takes (wo)manpower and (wo)manhours, which in this world (that can't be changed so we should just move on according to our friend goL) this takes money.  Enormous amount of money flawing and enormous amount of hours working and cleaning code.  This takes organization.  How come we can trust such an organization?  How do we know their faith in our ideals, principles, values, will remain in tact?  We don't, not within the sphere of this economic system we can't.  It has to be done outside this sphere, under different social relations and material conditions.  Paid labor separated those who pay and those who get paid and their interests will never be the same.

And I believe this is a cross point between the two parallel discussions we have developed under the LoL topic.
Nothing good, healthy, or a solution, can come out while still living inside the sphere of death and destruction.
We must enter the sphere of life and construction to find common solutions to our common problems.

Time to order pizza with smoked buffalo strips and sun dried mango, rinsed by beer from mount Olympus, chased by Equadorian rum.
All this talk and writing got me hungry. 

I wouldn't change a thing as long as the pizza keeps coming.