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#101 Re: DIY » X11 Programming Development Forum? » 2017-06-05 06:16:16
I'm not understanding this. Is it a question (about an existing forum somewhere) or a request (for a space on this forum)? If you want to discuss that here, the DIY forum would be a good place. Moving since it is not a support question regarding Devuan Jessie.
I want to make my own XBINDKEYS for a simple launcher of XTERM.
I have learned how TinyWm works, but now, I would like to interact with keyboard. Of course, a platform such as a forum is the best, because the man X11 is not easy.
#102 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Software Alternative to "xbindkeys" with Alt+Tab Support? (Wayland) » 2017-06-05 06:08:51
what about BBKEYS ?
However BBKEYS is NOT into the repositories any more. apt-cache search pkgnames bb gives something though.
#103 Re: Installation » Devuan for Raspberry PI 3 ? » 2017-06-05 05:54:32
Raspberry PI 3 Model B is rather an ARMHF. I am not sure which one for the PI3B
devuan_jessie_1.0.0_arm64_raspi3.img.xz 23-May-2017 11:20 175M
devuan_jessie_1.0.0_armel_raspi1.img.xz 23-May-2017 11:13 172M
devuan_jessie_1.0.0_armhf_chromeacer.img.xz 23-May-2017 11:14 231M
devuan_jessie_1.0.0_armhf_chromeveyron.img.xz 23-May-2017 11:15 235M
devuan_jessie_1.0.0_armhf_n900.img.xz 23-May-2017 11:15 155M
devuan_jessie_1.0.0_armhf_odroidxu.img.xz 23-May-2017 11:16 154M
devuan_jessie_1.0.0_armhf_raspi2.img.xz 23-May-2017 11:14 172M
devuan_jessie_1.0.0_armhf_sunxi.img.xz 23-May-2017 11:17 152M
#104 Installation » Devuan for Raspberry PI 3 ? » 2017-06-04 16:01:26
- spartrekus
- Replies: 15
Hello
There is today Debian for the raspberry pi.
herewith the installation procedure:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati … s/linux.md
( armhf )
Would you know if there would be Devuan for the PI?
Thank you
deb http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/ jessie main contrib non-free rpi
# Uncomment line below then 'apt-get update' to enable 'apt-get source'
#deb-src http://archive.raspbian.org/raspbian/ jessie main contrib non-free rpi
~ #105 Re: Installation » How to install DEVUAN Stable using DEBOOTSTRAP method to /target? » 2017-06-04 14:41:43
What error message did you get?
If you used the second method to add the key, make sure to include the final "-" after "add".
solved with this bash script. I installed DEVUAN !!
#/bin/bash
PKG="make,wpasupplicant,netbase,login,passwd,less"
debootstrap --no-check-gpg --include="$PKG" --arch i386 jessie /target http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/
mkdir -p /target/lib/modules
mv /target/boot /target/boot-origin
mv /target/etc/network /target/etc/network-origin#106 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Software Alternative to "xbindkeys" with Alt+Tab Support? (Wayland) » 2017-06-04 14:14:55
spartrekus wrote:
X11 is great really, could be better, but it works.
Why to always want to change something that works?With you all the way on X11, old saying "don't fix what isn't broken"!
cheers
zephyr
so far I try to get mostly using libx11-dev to be readily cross-platform and to avoid using developing on SDL if possible.
X11 lib dev is everywhere. SDL is likely not working all the time. 1.2 sdl is ok, but if you want to use fonts, that'll be fun and likely not always working !
xbindkeys could be make lighter and more portable .
#107 DIY » X11 Programming Development Forum? » 2017-06-04 11:28:53
- spartrekus
- Replies: 6
Hello,
Would you eventually know a possible X11 Programming Development Forum?
Thank you
#108 Re: Installation » How to install DEVUAN Stable using DEBOOTSTRAP method to /target? » 2017-06-04 10:57:47
spartrekus wrote:PKG="make,gcc,wireless-tools,login,passwd,less,vim,wpasupplicant,netbase,wget,cpio,binutils,dpkg,cron,dosfstools,e2fsprogs,dpkg,apt,apt-utils" sparrot@deathstar # debootstrap --include="$PKG" --arch i386 stable /target http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ I: Retrieving InRelease I: Checking Release signature E: Release signed by unknown key (key id 94532124541922FB) sparrot@deathstar #I mentioned last time that I needed few days to give you the error msg. Herewith the error message as agreed.
Thank you in advance
I got that same error recently, but I don't recall what I was doing. Maybe it was the debootstrap install, or maybe it was during an upgrade from jessie to ascii. I think I fixed it by adding the key, and I think I tried a couple different things. Sorry I didn't take notes on that.
apt-get install devuan-keyringand answer "yes" to the scary question.
orgpg --recv-keys 541922FB gpg --export -armor 541922FB | apt-key add -
It does not work. Keyring not installed, and gpg is there but it does not allow it.
DEBIAN does install so why cannot it does DEVUAN??
All other deb'-distros work too with deboostrap
#109 Re: Off-topic » Is Blackbox still today a recommended or outdated WM ? » 2017-06-04 10:27:17
Why Blackbox be a WM that will die in some 5-10 years?
I believe that probably since no dev is being given. It is really pitty since it is really doing its job WELL and wihtout 50 mb of ram use.
stario 3212 0.0 0.3 12160 7208 tty2 S Jun03 0:00 blackbox
#110 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Software Alternative to "xbindkeys" with Alt+Tab Support? (Wayland) » 2017-06-03 04:54:42
I'm not too worried. We have a critical mass of smart, freedom-loving folk in the GNU/Linux community who value traditional workflows (e.g., Devuan developers), so we'll figure something out when we get there. I myself will roll up my sleeves and figure it out if need be. Sorry I can't be more helpful at this point--I only looked into this cursorily.
I have never actually used Wayland yet. Truth is I have absolutely no complaints regarding X11, so will put off Wayland for as long as I possibly can (forever if possible).
I see. Good to hear helpful & smart developers will help. Sounds good. X11 is great really, could be better, but it works.
Why to always want to change something that works? - Human nature 
#111 Re: Off-topic » Is Blackbox still today a recommended or outdated WM ? » 2017-06-02 22:05:09
spartrekus wrote:Compiling didn't work much actually.
Image.cc: In member function 'void bt::Image::hgradient(const bt::Color&, const bt::Color&, bool)': Image.cc:1350:42: error: 'memcpy' was not declared in this scope memcpy(p, data, width * sizeof(RGB)); ^For the record, this is because GCC got stricter over time about including C headers. If you download blackbox_0.70.1-34.debian.tar.xz from a mirror and uncompress it, you'll find a list of patches, among which fix-ftbfs-gcc-4.3.diff which adds the missing #include directives. The problems will only start if the package ends up orphaned.
it only depends on the code ! Let's take some codes... I am not so sure that the code couldn't be made more performant, with less include.
== 1. Cool
- dwm : is the cleanest code ever https://github.com/chjj/dwm/blob/master/dwm.c
- evilwm is really clean
- almost, pure beauty: http://download.tuxfamily.org/hatari/1. … .0.tar.bz2 except cmake.
- is this code https://fossies.org/linux/misc/old/uae-0.8.29.tar.gz cool?
== 2. Less Cool
- Less cool now?
- gtk?
- kde?
- make
- the new, modern, Xorg
- Is actually the code source of busybox like it should be?
- xbindkeys: http://hocwp.free.fr/ <- code available , not that great
- ndzen2, not that great either
== 3. Not good
- best, are bibtex, or many X11 applications.
- cmake
- mplayer is not that great
Ok, let's take this example:
Check the code of VIM, do you really like it?
#112 Re: Off-topic » Is Blackbox still today a recommended or outdated WM ? » 2017-06-02 21:43:28
spartrekus wrote:FOSSuser wrote:If I remember, I switched to Fluxbox because it wasn't being maintained, but there are a lot of people who like & use Openbox nowadays, maybe you would like to give it a try.
With Linux, it is always the same. When a software is good, stable, efficiently ugly and having low memory footprint, the project will be abandoned.
Always same storyIsn't that the dang truth? Ya know people were telling me like 6 years ago or so to stop using gpicview and use something else because gpicview was no longer being developed.
6 years later and it STILL WORKS JUST FINE.
It is no longer developed because THERE WAS NOTHING LEFT TO DO because IT WORKS JUST FREAKIN FINE WITHOUT ANY MORE CODE NEEDED!!
Not sure why this is so hard to understand for some folks. If it ain't broke, it don't need fixin', and if it don't need fixin', that means IT'S STABLE AND WORKS JUST FINE!!
In truth i'd be happy if almost EVERY package on my system was like this, I don't care how old they are or if they are being developed. Some end-users just mindlessly "upgrade" everything they can at every opportunity and spend waaaaaaay more time than I have to spare, trying to repair the resulting carnage.
For that MS Windows is more stable. You can mostly run an exe from win95 to win 7 without troubles.
Due to high complexity to compile outdated libraries with modern ones, under Linux, it is likely that a sofware without dev will die, since no one will compile it.
look for instance, siag is not longer on any linux repositories. Since it has old libraries, no want will make it available. The problem is that libraries are changing all the time under Linux. Since there are no standards to keep a graphical libraries or other under certain defined basic function, programmes without dev will simply die due to lack of compatiblity. Linux is moving too fast to be reliable. Furthermore, many applications are not written for efficiency, rather that it works, without considering memory and resource usage, which may slow down significanly a system.
The solution:
- Option 1: like on the cutting edge with bloated software
- Option 2: move to BSD where more concern is given.
If you have a superbe hardware, you won't worry about resource usage of your programme and how it performs.
E.g., If you have to drive 1h to reach a given town, and that you have 2-3 hours in front of you, you have quite a bit chance to take these 2-3 hours to procastinate or to start to drive at the last minute. On projects, 60-70% of persons will start to work on a given project the day before the deadline. Very few start to work 2-3 weeks before.
#113 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Software Alternative to "xbindkeys" with Alt+Tab Support? (Wayland) » 2017-06-02 20:11:01
My prediction is that first Wayland will see widespread adoption, then people like us will develop an xbindkeys replacement.
So you wait that people compile for you? So, if they simply do not get interests about xbindkeys, and that it can be abandoned. What do you do then? Maybe installing KDE or Gnome on a new Wayland (with some SystemD ) ?
Besides, the code of xbindkeys is not that easy to compile. There should be some smallest possible reduction of its code.
#114 Re: Off-topic » When Wayland will fully replace the old X11? » 2017-06-02 20:08:39
I keep a foot in the OpenBSD camp, I can have a usable system in less than 1GB, whilst most L/W Linux distros are now over 2GB when installed, it's getting really bloated!
It is really a lot.
A normally Installed Linux with X11 or alt should or could run on max of 350 Mb, max.
#115 Re: Other Issues » What is best way to install latest version of Firefox? » 2017-06-02 20:06:45
Not much people do still use Firefox. It is taking vast amount of memory. Many persons are using today Chromium which is a bit less bloated.
Anyhow, the best way to install the last version of Firefox is to be lucky to compile it. Or, you can try backports of Debian or Devuan on Jessie.
Ubuntu has a much higher version of Firefox if you want.
Compilign yourself is always the best way to learn, and to never compile your own such application again so much it is difficult
#116 Re: Off-topic » Is Blackbox still today a recommended or outdated WM ? » 2017-06-02 20:03:47
If I remember, I switched to Fluxbox because it wasn't being maintained, but there are a lot of people who like & use Openbox nowadays, maybe you would like to give it a try.
With Linux, it is always the same. When a software is good, stable, efficiently ugly and having low memory footprint, the project will be abandoned.
Always same story
I will miss blackbox when Wayland will come up !
#117 Re: Other Issues » Could the great, famous, FVWM95 put back into the DEVUAN repositories? » 2017-06-02 04:42:33
Fvwm1 looks like Motif Window Manager and that was probably because MWM was proprietary when Fvwm1 was made. However these days MWM is free software and you can install it with `apt install mwm`. Feature-wise both are very lightweight, but MWM is slightly better if for no other reason than supporting alt+tab.
If you want Win95-like look, there is also QVWM - http://ahinea.com/en/tech/qvwm/
QVWM is really amazing. The problem is that it is not into the repositories of Devuan, with little interests from users of large community having Ubuntu or Debian, for a non-shining Windows 95 window manager. This mean,... that this project will be know and in some years probably abandoned. Likely, after some time, the libraries will not longer be compatible... Who care about Win95 environment?
- Actually, this a nice standard and simple to use for everyone. Too, it can be considered as free and basic, as motif is.
#118 Desktop and Multimedia » Software Alternative to "xbindkeys" with Alt+Tab Support? (Wayland) » 2017-06-02 04:33:26
- spartrekus
- Replies: 7
Hello,
So or later, X11 will disappear, so anyhow, to keep the key shortcuts whatever fancy, shinning, heavy on memory, coming Wayland Window Manager, we can make use of xbindkeys. Hopefully this one will remain and will still be compatible.
In any case, xbindkeys gets abandoned. It is of course possible. Which alternative can be use ?
Thank you
#119 Re: Off-topic » When Wayland will fully replace the old X11? » 2017-05-31 20:50:52
I have adopted a workflow on this desktop that requires the support of Zaphodheads of X11. Will Wayland have any such support? It seems the cool kids want to have some massive desktop extended across several monitors. That is of little interest to me as I make use of the workspaces in Xfce. With two desktops through Zaphodheads I have a total of eight workspaces on two independent desktops. The best part is that when I switch a workspace on Screen0, the workspace on Screen1 doesn't change. This allows me to have an editor open on Screen1 Workspace 4 while I use Firefox on Screen0 and Workspace 2 or read mail on Screen0 Workspace 3. With an extended desktops all monitors are on the current workspace, which just doesn't fit what I want to do.
Support for odd cases like this is what makes X11 so powerful. I'm not sure the present developers even understand this.
We are maybe too old for Linux. Linux is getting heavy, bloated, ... and it is ready for cool kids. Don't you think that we shall consider using BSD rather than Linux?
#120 Off-topic » Is Blackbox still today a recommended or outdated WM ? » 2017-05-31 19:30:53
- spartrekus
- Replies: 26
Hello,
The Blackbox WM is today still available on the repositories. Blackbox has always been a reliable WM. Since some years, there are less developments, and it may look a bit old, maybe
Small, stable, WM is no longer fashion, compared to modern, high features, heavy, comfortable, WMs and environment/desktop.
herewith the not so much maintained website:
http://blackboxwm.sourceforge.net/AboutBlackbox
Compiling didn't work much actually.
Image.cc: In member function 'void bt::Image::hgradient(const bt::Color&, const bt::Color&, bool)':
Image.cc:1350:42: error: 'memcpy' was not declared in this scope
memcpy(p, data, width * sizeof(RGB));
^
Makefile:374: recipe for target 'Image.lo' failed
make[2]: *** [Image.lo] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory '/tmp/blackbox-0.70.1.orig/lib'
Makefile:285: recipe for target 'all-recursive' failed
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory '/tmp/blackbox-0.70.1.orig'
Makefile:212: recipe for target 'all' failed
make: *** [all] Error 2
linux@acer:/tmp/blackbox-0.70.1.orig$#121 Re: Installation » Minimal bare bone Devuan installation (<50Mb) ? » 2017-05-31 19:08:03
Is this what you are interested in?
mini.isoThe mini.iso is less than 30mb.
Would it be available too for i486, armhf and i386 of less than 50 MB ??
This rocks, please please continue to build tiny barebone DEVUAN of less than 50 MB . it is highly helpful for everyone !!
many thanks for your efforts!
#122 Other Issues » Could the great, famous, FVWM95 put back into the DEVUAN repositories? » 2017-05-31 19:02:30
- spartrekus
- Replies: 5
Hello,
Some about 10 years ago, there was a great, famous, FVWM95. It was installed very often when KDE waas not installed. Slackware had it into the repositories has a major WM.
The code can be easily compiled.
https://github.com/rn10950/FVWM95-Updated
But but the very very plus plus is that FVWM95 takes NO MEMORY. It is almost as light as tinywm, ctwm or evilwm.
There is a difference between installed a vast memory taker such as KDE. Plus if you want to do web, just use Firefox. Likely your system will be already running slow. That's the joy of modern systems compared the fast ones of 10-15 years.
Hence, does it make sense to bring back and to maintain something that was Good, really: FVWM95.
#123 Re: Off-topic » When Wayland will fully replace the old X11? » 2017-05-28 06:18:41
I hope that either a) the X11 protocol and its cornucopia of tools never die (as Bad Sector suggests) or b) if/when Wayland becomes default, it will offer tools that allow us to do at least as much as we can do with X11.
I rely heavily on desktop environment-agnostic and window manager-agnostic (i.e., highly portable) tools such as xdotool (for GUI automation) and xbindkeys (for keyboard shortcuts). I'd be a miserable GNU/Linux user without these tools or something very similar.
Me too, here, I have xbindkeys and I try to rather use wmctrl and no longer xdotool (in any case, xdotool isnt installed at school). The libx11-dev is installed on all my PCs, which allow me to deploy my X11 tiny apps on any Linux (using gcc and libx11-dev). For instance, nxmessage "hello" replaces ndzen brillantly.
Since no one is installing Linux from source code, by rather using instead a so-called "distribution", you will be always be somehow dependent. Why not using Windows then? There should be some sort of programmes that can be compiled over time without be in danger by devel / developers that want to experiment thing. Since most users use a distro and cannot compile, then, they end in strong dependency.
If X11 (or successor) changes its libraries someday, then, that's bad for everyone at some point of the time. Everyone does not agree to drop important programmes just because libraries have changed. The point is probably to have strong reliable libraries. Are they ?? Not much really.
#124 Other Issues » Why excellent, non for business, Motif softwares will die? (Ex.TeD) » 2017-05-14 19:31:30
- spartrekus
- Replies: 4
Hello,
I am very surprised that the best of tiny, minimalist, efficient, reliable softwares aren't maintained and some of them disappear. The best example is TeD. Next to it, we could talk about Pathetic Writer and Siag.
1) Let's talk about TeD. https://www.nllgg.nl/Ted/
I know Debian rejected this Motif software.
Would it be possible that you keep it into your DEVUAN repositories?
2) Why excellent, non for business, Motif softwares will die? (Ex.TeD)
Devuan is still not a business'ed distribution. It would be good to have efficient softwares, which could be into Devuan without caring about Debian that much. Debian does what it wants.
#125 Re: Off-topic » When Wayland will fully replace the old X11? » 2017-05-07 07:00:16
* Because Ubuntu adopted Wayland, there is indeed a high chance that Debian will follow, for the next or next next release of Debian.
Hopefully Wayland will give not manage to conquest all Debian-based distros.
* Concerning support, older hardwares aren't a big deal for most distros since they do not offer support. Debian cannot support, easy let's drop it: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/05/ … older-cpus There is nothing wrong in offering a debian system with 486. It is possible to make Debian for use of everyone. It does not cost so much more energy, and it would avoid community to fork and to make many thousand distros, which live 5-10 years and ... non maintained, then vanish/disappear.
* In my opinion, if X11 dies, hopefully, someone will preserve and will maintain for history, but also for continuing Education and Research Purposes on Unix(-like) systems the old good following:
- W
- (Xvesa, XFree86), X.Org
- SysV way.
- Alsa
and so on...
* Of course, Wayland and new shining desktops are also good for guys that use their machines like a shining MS-Windows desktop. Graphical effects distract me for the essential. I am fine with an ugly TWM and FLTK. Ok, let's return to Space Travel game
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