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#26 Re: Freedom Hacks » UDisks2: Security Considerations » 2026-02-14 14:48:13

Lay off with the ChatGPT Igor, it's obvious and it's tiresome. If we want AI security "advice" we can ask one ourselves without you reposting it.

#27 Re: Freedom Hacks » UDisks2: Security Considerations » 2026-02-14 14:33:50

software that
initiates whatever you regard a system thrashing operation after
receiving nothing but a return value of zero, it might better be thrashed.

Oh dear, I guess we had better chuck dpkg in the bin then.
Here's a nice "replace $hated_thing with a stub that does nothing" package which breaks bootloader updates. I see that bug has still not been looked at, and the maintainer is still nowhere to be found. *Filed 2 years and 255 days ago*

While not directly comparable, it's exactly the kind of unexpected borkage that will ensue if we start intentionally breaking things, pretending services are available when they aren't, and lying to applications.

#28 Re: Freedom Hacks » UDisks2: Security Considerations » 2026-02-14 11:47:33

There is a configuration option to disable dbus, it's off by default and you need to write a Xorg.conf.

Source? AFAIK there's nothing related to logind or dbus in xorg.conf, and there never has been.
Enabling or disabling logind integration is done at compile-time, by passing:

-Dsystemd_logind=false

to meson.

I forgot how to write a Xorg.conf manually

The xorg.conf(5) manual is in the same place it has always been.

I understand that this is the gentoo-aproach

Compiling software is not specific to "the gentoo-approach", and can be done on any distro that includes a compiler toolchain and development libraries... Which Devuan does.

But I did choose to use devuan.

So either use the Devuan packages with the options Devuan chose, or recompile them if you want something different. All the tools to do the latter are in the official repositories where they've always been.

I didn't ask this in the first place.  Brocashelm did, and I made a suggestion.

Brocashelm pointed out that a lot of things depend on libdbus (because they were compiled against it), and you suggested an exceptionally ugly workaround that doesn't actually exist.
The correct approach is to recompile or patch the affected packages to not link against libdbus, on a case-by-case basis. Anything else is bound to end in disaster.

LD_PRELOAD hacks or stub-libraries and the like will cause problems, because sooner or later (probably sooner) upstream will use a function you haven't implemented or depend on a reply to a message you sent to /dev/null, and everything will blow up.

Better yet, somebody will use something that asks over dbus a question like "is this a container" or "what init system are we using" before starting a potentially system-trashing operation... And you propose just answering "true" every time? What could possibly go wrong? roll

Why go to all that effort with fragile half-arsed solutions, just to avoid rebuilding packages?

Wasn't the title of this subforum "freedom hacks?"

"Hacks" doesn't preclude recompiling to get the behaviour you want, and you have the "freedom" to do so.

I am sick of software I have to recompile everytime a new version is out, because someone decided...

If you write the software, you get to decide what options and dependencies it has.
If you package the software, you get to decide which of those are enabled.
If you just use the software, you get to complain ineffectually, and I get to give you shit for it. tongue

I don't want one.  I want it switched off.

You want a binary distro that caters to your specific whims and provides packages built just the way you want, with no effort on your part.
Spoiler alert: It doesn't exist, and it won't unless you make it. Some things need to be decided at compile-time.

#29 Re: Freedom Hacks » UDisks2: Security Considerations » 2026-02-14 10:16:09

how to shut up Xorg about no dbus

Xorg doesn't use dbus, it uses unix sockets for IPC. You only need dbus if you enable [e]logind support, which is only needed for "rootless" (i.e. brokered permissions) operation and is a compile-time option.

must recompile

Uhh, so why not just do that then, rather than "quarrelling"? It's not rocket science, and no binary distro can please everyone with their choice of configuration.
Debian builds Xorg with logind support, and that pulls in dbus. Deal with it, or recompile to suit your taste.

if someone creates a kind of fake-dbus that the libraries can connect to

FFS, just compile the things without dbus, then they won't try to use it to begin with and "somebody" won't need to do anything.

What does this thing even do?

IPC, strangely enough. roll
Any modern DE will need some kind of IPC, the dbus spec is kind of a mess and everyone is doing their own random things with it, but it's what we have so it's what most projects use. Whether that's better than everyone having completely different solutions (e.g. dcop in kde3, corba in gnome) is a matter for debate.
There are dbus alternatives in the wild, but none of them have any real adoption.

#30 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » virt-manager qemu/kvm install excalibur » 2026-02-14 09:40:35

There are only 3

Depends on whether you include both type-1 and type-2 hypervisors, and whether your universe is limited to only those that run on GNU/Linux.

give an advise based on h.. own experience.

That's not what you did, you took a comment out of context to imply that the proprietary virtualbox hypervisor must be "bad" because they're adding KVM as an additional option, then used that as as an excuse to sling mud at "big evil corporation" for taking too long to include your favourite alternative.

My response is "supporting both is good, because they serve different needs. The more options we have the merrier." I have no loyalty to either technology.

If you want to insist Qemu/KVM is universally "better", I invite you to try running Visopsys or PC-DOS with full emm386, or moving your VMs between different host operating systems (which is  much easier with a type-2 hypervisor like VB).
Like I said, use-cases... One solution does not fit all of them.

#31 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [SOLVED] ext4 write slow on small 120gb sata SSD » 2026-02-14 09:27:09

You can do it on your own.
I got the effect.

"Just take my word for it, it feels faster (totally not confirmation bias, trust me bro)".
FTFY.

Thanks, but no thanks. In my testing on low-latency RAID NVME the best i/o scheduler is consistently [none]. I run Gentoo not Arch, so my ricing is data-driven.

#32 Re: Freedom Hacks » UDisks2: Security Considerations » 2026-02-14 08:59:02

only applies to a multi-user system

Yes, believe it or not those do exist and they do have more stringent security requirements than your personal machine. The "nothing but single-user desktop exists" blinkers everyone on this board seems to like wearing are extremely silly.
Then again, if you're administering a multi-user system and allowing people to plug in random storage devices then that's the real problem, not the software enumerating them.

If someone were to somehow break in to my machine, you would not find...

What they will find is your web browser storage, which will likely contain cached pages and login cookies even if you use 2FA and never "save" any passwords.
"I have nothing to hide" is a ridiculous non-argument, regardless of whether it's applied to security or privacy.

I don't use mail-clients

So webmail then? Guess what's in your browser storage...

it's on my mail providers server

Ahh, good old "somebody else is dealing with it" security-as-a-service.

Tempest in a teapot.

The above aside, I agree. Udisks itself is pretty irrelevant as an attack vector, noexec & co is a nothing-burger in most situations because nobody uses auto-run any more, and everything else requires physical control of the device and the ability to connect random storage, at which point you're cooked anyway.
Smells like AI CVE-slop to me.

#33 Re: Freedom Hacks » About installers » 2026-02-14 07:34:00

greenjeans wrote:

like trying to install win xp back in the day.

D-I is fine, it's always been fine. Preferrably the TUI "expert" mode.
The XP installer is also fine, provided period-appropriate hardware. 99% of problems installing XP, "back in the day" or otherwise, are really driver issues.

greenjeans wrote:

Has anybody tried the Calamares installer? Is it any better?

Than D-I? Not really, maybe for the easily-intimidated noob who just wants to click "next" a bunch of times. I's shinier and uses more mouse, but has fewer options.
Than refracta? Hell yes. Anything is better than that incoherent janky collection of hobby-project scripts and yad "UIs".

greenjeans wrote:

147 mb on my machine... Yikes.

Oh, the huge manatee. 150MB is 3/5 of sod all and completely irrelevant on any system capable of running the installed OS to begin with.

greenjeans wrote:

The installer script itself is only 67 kb

Cool. Now include the interpreter, all the external binaries it calls, and their respective GUI toolkits and libraries.
"script is ony [x]kb" is meaningless once you start pulling in most of GTK for a half-arsed UI, then call rsync and gparted to do all the real work.

#34 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [SOLVED] ext4 write slow on small 120gb sata SSD » 2026-02-14 07:20:24

greenjeans wrote:

Wait, you guys are getting 120 mbps write speed?

Eh? I get ~900MiB/s read/write over the network to my NAS (network limited), and that's mostly 10+ year old gear. Local root filesystem is 3.5GiB/s read, 1.6GiB/s write (real workloads as opposed to the silly marketing numbers, and yes, it's ext4), and that's pretty much the cheapest DRAM-less flash (that wasn't complete trash) I could find at the time.

greenjeans wrote:

almost makes me want to try an SSD

"An SSD for the OS is the biggest upgrade you can make for interactive workloads" was a true 15 years ago. These days it's almost impossible to find a system that doesn't do that.
If you think "I still boot from a single bargain-basement mechanical drive from 2009" is some kind of brag (outside the vintage scene, and half of that is using flash these days anyway), you do you. roll

As for the OP, benchmark better. What you are testing is the throughput of encrypted LVM, not ext4. In that context CPU performance, memory bandwidth and choice of encryption algorithm will completely mask any differences in filesystem performance.

Devarch wrote:

The best ssd accelerator for Linux

Benchmark numbers or it didn't happen.
Fiddling with exotic schedulers is very workload dependent, and most modern SSD firmware does well enough for general-desktop use that the best choice is either none or deadline, with anything more complicated just adding overhead for no real benefit.

#35 Re: Off-topic » Favorite Games » 2026-02-10 05:10:47

Rimworld

Is whatever you want it to be, from peaceful village-builder to organ-harvesting cannibal death-cult. IMO mods are needed to get the best from the game though. The modding scene is nuts, easily the biggest and best of any game I have played.
if you like Dwarf Fortress, you'll like Rimworld. If you don't like Dwarf Fortress... You'll probably still like Rimworld.

Starsector, Stellaris

Aren't really comparable. Stellaris is just a 4X, but it's a very good and very deep 4X, and I like SciFi settings. The DLC-gouging gets a bit much though.
Starsector is something else, and there's not really anything else like it. Take old-school Star Control top-down combat, add deep ship customisation and fleet mechanics, throw it in a trading/exploration RPG-lite overworld, and you have... Genius. Or Mount & Blade in space, as you prefer.
If you haven't played it, play it. It's cheap, and it's exceptional value.

Grim Dawn

The Diablo 3 that should have been, what else is there to say. Classic loot-goblin ARPG gameplay, a truly insane amount of content, and zero bullshit.

Eve Online

I don't really do MMOs any more, but Eve is the original (destroyer of all free time). DO NOT start playing Eve if you have a life. tongue
Seriously though, if you like player-driven MMOs, it's the OG and the namesake for the "massive" part of the acronym... Runs on a literal supercomputer, and is pretty much the only place that thousands of players and the equivalent of 6-figures real-world cash can go down in flames in a single battle.

X4, X3

Indie, janky, completely unique. Kind of a 1st-person 4X sandbox I guess.
Decent combat from dogfights to massive fleet engagements (if you excuse the AutoPillock), with a fully simulated economy and the ability to buy (or steal) pretty much every ship in the game, or build an empire to rival entire species.
Story is so-so, but that's not the point.
Mods are many and awesome, the latest iteration of X3 is actually an "official" mod and it's the best the game has ever been.
IMO X3 is still better than X4 in terms of gameplay and polish, but the latter is slowly getting there. Egosoft has a history of supporting their games with updates and patches for decades after release, so I'm still mostly optimistic it'll exceed its predecessor.

Space Engineers

Fun physics sandbox so far, but also appears to be designed to be as annoying as possible. Like I said, undecided.
Good enough to be worth the purchase price IMO, but unfortunately also into the DLC-gouging thing.

#36 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » [SOLVED] Devuan Excalibur install and Pipewire. » 2026-02-07 15:06:06

thanks

You are most welcome.
FWIW, the version of daemon in excalibur should be new enough to support --bind, so later comments regards backporting are obsolete.
Also FWIW, you can put some of the repetitive malarkey in those commands (e.g. pidfiles=[whatever]) in /etc/daemon.conf or ~/.daemonrc, which makes later use to list / control managed daemons a bit nicer.
Check out the manual, for such a tiny and obscure tool daemon is pretty swish - chroots, environment control, ptys, the works.

#37 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [SOLVED] Shutdown without being prompted for sudo password » 2026-02-07 14:41:00

Nice, that'd do it... And learn me for focusing on the specific line rather than looking at the whole code block.
Can replicate the OPs problem here if there's another match later in the file (or in /etc/sudoers.d/*, since '@includedir /etc/sudoers.d' appears to be the last entry in a default install).

Aside, if there's a prize for most intimidatingly dense man page, I'm pretty confident 'sudoers' is a strong contender. tongue

#38 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [SOLVED] Shutdown without being prompted for sudo password » 2026-02-07 13:39:57

steve ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/shutdown

Works fine here (excalibur):

$ sudo shutdown -k now

Broadcast message from root@damnation (pts/2) (Sun Feb  8 02:38:31 2026):

The system is going down to maintenance mode NOW!

Broadcast message from root@damnation (pts/2) (Sun Feb  8 02:38:31 2026):

The system is going down to maintenance mode NOW!

Shutdown cancelled.

/usr/sbin/shutdown is the realpath to the shutdown binary on your system, right? No symlink shenanigans or anything?

#39 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [SOLVED] Shutdown without being prompted for sudo password » 2026-02-07 13:31:28

RedGreen925 wrote:
zeus    ALL=(ALL:ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL

Sure, if the goal is to completely negate any security benefit of sudo and make 'zeus' effectively root. The OP is trying to match a specific command, not allow everything under the sun.

gipi wrote:

What am I missing?

Possibly the incomplete host specification... Testing

#40 Re: Off-topic » Favorite Games » 2026-02-07 13:16:00

Currently, modded war crime simulator Rimworld, X3, Starsector, and most recently (still undecided) Space Engineers.
In all-time hours-played (and maybe in order): KSP, X3, Rimworld, Stellaris, Grim Dawn, Quake (1), Doom (1), Morrowind, Eve Online, X4.

You?

#41 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » [SOLVED] Devuan Excalibur install and Pipewire. » 2026-02-07 10:04:49

I just pointed you to how to fix that racy startup script, but since one of the admins is apparently quietly deleting my posts (or this forum is just a buggy mess, which is also possible) I guess we'll have to imagine it. Short version: read that thread more, the first "solution" is highly unreliable.
What a lovely board this is.

#42 Re: Devuan » Kde and Systemd - In the News » 2026-02-07 09:44:55

You are using the wrong distribution if you want something like that

Exactly why I'm running almost entirely on Gentoo these days. The one Devuan install I still have is a server and completely unaffected by any of this.

doing these so easy changes you complain about all the time

I have, on my own systems, quite some time ago. What I can't do from here is get the same into Devuan where it helps everyone, because [see above WRT stonewalling and "upstream Debian package or GTFO" responses].

This issue doesn't affect me at all, but it's still causing problems for other users (usually newcomers, e.g.), and believe it or not I'd quite like to see this distro get better with each release rather than just drop more and more packages and leave more and more broken things for users to "figure it out yourself".

help out or shut up about this

As I said (much, much) earlier:

steve_v wrote:

What I would like to know is: Which way does Devuan intend to handle this, and is there anything that needs doing there? What solutions are being considered? I contributed one possibility way upthread, is it worth persevering with or is Devuan going to do something totally different?

I still don't have an answer, and shouting "go help" (without specifics like "with what", "where" and "by what process") is not one. Plenty of "help" with this particular issue has already been volunteered (mostly in the pipewire thread), and so far no bites.
When nothing is biting, eventually one stops fishing. All that remains is progressively more snarky variations of "What's the plan, Stan? Have we decided anything yet, or we still hoping this will just go away?".

Ed. But wait, there's more. Lest we forget, here's me offering to "help out" on this very issue, nearly a year ago:

steve_v wrote:

I'll be happy to pitch in with code and/or packaging when devuan decides on a sane and maintainable way to handle user services.

And Ralph shutting it down with the usual completely unproductive "We'll do nothing until Debian does something, unless it uses systemd, in which case we'll do nothing at all.":

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

Wonderful. Let's wait together. When some packages turn up in Debian offering all or some of those good things you talk about, then they automatically turn up in Devuan. Unless they depend on systemd. If they do, they end up on the banned packages list.

#43 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » virt-manager qemu/kvm install excalibur » 2026-02-07 04:10:48

Oracle decided to move towards KVM

You mean "finally release the KVM backend they've been working on for a while". Nobody nowhere stated it will replace their own hypervisor, or even become the default.

They could not do it before because of the lack of resources.

Recall Oracle didn't develop VirtualBox, Sun Microsystems did. What remains of that team is likely quite small, VB is not even remotely a priority for Oracle as a whole and big corporations do love their silos.

Vulnerability

Are you perhaps implying that Linux KVM has no security vulnerabilities? A rather easy CVE search suggests otherwise...

KVM is better.

...Except when it's not. DOS and OS/2 guests spring to mind. Multiple options are good.

#44 Re: Devuan » Kde and Systemd - In the News » 2026-02-07 03:12:16

Devuan follows the packages as they are in Debian except where changes are required to remove the systemd garbage

But not when new packages or more extensive changes are needed to have things actually work properly without systemd. It's always "remove garbage" or "sanitise", never "fix", "improve" or "add alternative".
So long as this attitude persists, every Devuan release will have less stuff that works, less functionality, and less user choice.
That's not progress, it's regression. It's the surgeon whose answer to every problem is "amputate", because that's what worked in 1856 and administering even over-the-counter treatments might require more effort.

OpenRC gets little attention in Debian, because it solves problems Debian doesn't have. They don't need a recent version with user-services, they have systemd. We don't.
There is nothing whatsoever preventing Devuan from backporting a newer openrc release or including one of the many other available solutions to user-services, besides this ridiculous "we just follow Debian" policy... Which for some reason only appears to apply in a subtractive sense - changes are always removing something from upstream Debian, never adding, never improving.

Any time anyone suggests something be added to make Devuan better, the response is the same - "get it accepted into Debian first"... Even when the thing in question has bugger-all chance of being packaged in Debian because it's completely irrelevant to a systemd-based distribution.

This is essentially just stonewalling, and it's no surprise nobody is volunteering for anything when it's the default response to Devuan-specific RFPs and ITPs.

#45 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » [SOLVED] Devuan Excalibur install and Pipewire. » 2026-02-07 01:00:19

devuan_dk_fan wrote:

Works with Waterfox, but not LibreWolf. On the Chrome side, I know that Chrome, Edge and Chromium work

Then your problem is almost certainly the anti-fingerprinting "hardening" Librewolf applies, and you'd be best asking in their support channels. I would not be at all surprised if Librewolf blocks APIs used to probe audio hardware for "privacy" reasons.

devuan_dk_fan wrote:

It is all in the web browser
...
Soundfonts and software synths aren't necessary

tomplay.zendesk.com wrote:

does not support MIDI connection, all the audio backing tracks we offer are real recordings

No synth, no hardware MIDI port or passthrough support == not MIDI, just playing audio clips in the browser.

If you want an actual MIDI sequencer, with notation editor and support for hardware MIDI connections to real instruments, I recommend rosegarden.
If you're set on $commercial_web_app, then you'll probably have to go through $commercial_support. Tomplay doesn't do anything with MIDI, and as far as I can tell Flowkey uses their own proprietary browser extension.
The chances of anyone else in here being familiar enough with those products (and on an "unsupported" platform at that) to offer support are slim.

To return to your original question:

greenjeans wrote:

what you describe now seems like it may be a timing issue during start-up?

I agree. Either that or something is grabbing the raw ALSA device before pipewire gets it.

devuan_dk_fan wrote:

I will try to take a look.

So, what did you see?
Which one of the many confusing unofficial user-contributed solutions (still all we have roll) are you using to start pipewire?

In general, I suggest the upstream documentation and the Gentoo wiki for pipewire information (since Devuan has effectively none), taking note of things like:

wiki.gentoo.org wrote:

There is no standardized non-systemd way to start PipeWire services - pipewire, pipewire-pulse and wireplumber - when starting a graphical shell, and users need to choose the correct approach based on how their graphical environment is started.

and:

wiki.gentoo.org wrote:

Important
PipeWire must be started before anything that might try to connect to any sound input or output, such as a volume monitoring applet.

#46 Re: Devuan » Kde and Systemd - In the News » 2026-02-07 00:06:02

Here is the difference between Debian and Devuan, why not to improve init?

Indeed, and that's a question that has bamboozled me for years.

As far as I can tell, Devuan 100% reactive, rather than proactive. Upstreams leaning on user-services has been a known problem for years, other distros have been developing solutions and exploring alternatives.
Devuan just waits. Waits to see what Debian does, waits to find out what the next Debian release breaks, waits to see what packages will be "banned" rather than fixed.

We could have openrc user-services, but we don't, "because Debian". Because this isn't really a distribution in it's own right, it's a Debian "respin" and 99.99% of packages are verbatim pulls from the Debian repos.
That's fine when you stick to the Debian way of doing things, but deviating on something as foundational as systemd and then refusing to deviate on potential fixes and replacements... Mark my words: when KDE depends on systemd, Devuan will just "ban" it, loose yet another major package, and slide further into irrelevance.

Pretty much every patch or alternative implementation that has found it's way into Devuan came from another distro (usually Gentoo, e.g. elogind, eudev, opentmpfiles), I'm probably missing some minor tweaks, but the fact I can't name a single significant systemd-free solution invented by this systemd-free distro is concerning to say the least.

Devuan isn't about finding alternatives to systemd, it's about clinging stubbornly to systems long abandoned by everyone else, then shouting at the weather like senile old fools when the rest of the world moves on. Compare the post-count for "here's a cool new feature in Devuan" to "bastards at $outgroup changed something again, the world is going to shit, bah humbug" and the direction is pretty clear - wilful fossilisation.

#47 Re: Devuan » Proposal "Devuan User Repository" » 2026-02-06 23:26:26

Most of that is a recent development too, FDN went downhill pretty steeply after the "official" admin takeover.
To be fair much of the aggravation is due to anti-ai defences, but if the result is that obnoxious for humans you're doing something very wrong.

#48 Re: Installation » [SOLVED] how start ntp? » 2026-02-06 23:16:03

because open source drivers is better

Yes, much. I got tired of the constant jank and driver-kernel incompatibilities. amdgpu just works, and it's included in the kernel.

are play games?

Sure, when I have time. Mostly stuff a few years old though.

RX 6700 XT is good for modern gaming

It's getting old now by "gamer" standards, but it's adequate so long as you don't want raytracing.

#49 Re: Devuan » Proposal "Devuan User Repository" » 2026-02-06 23:07:27

What or who is LQ and FDN?

LinuxQuestions.org, Forums.Debian.Net.

LQ is fine, though I haven't been there in a while. For some distros (most notably Slackware), it's their primary forum.

#50 Re: Devuan » Kde and Systemd - In the News » 2026-02-06 23:03:17

why there is no support for user services in openrc?

There is. The version of openrc in Devuan is, as usual, many versions behind.

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