The officially official Devuan Forum!

You are not logged in.

#26 Re: Installation » Sources List all Non-Free ? » 2018-12-04 10:31:56

As a "10 years old hardware" user, I can see the problem.  Performance is dire.  I would like to get hold of the last AMD core APU without the PSP, that will do for me.  Thus far I just haven't been able to get hold of all the bits to build a new box cheaply enough (2nd hand preferred).

The only real hope is in other architectures than x86, however ARM also tends to have the proprietary firmware problem in the implementation (e.g. Raspberry Pi) and you will still never get away from proprietary firmware in GPU's and other devices.

If you mean Raptor's "Talos II" POWER9 based systems?  I have to admit, they look good, however there is no powerpc64 arch port for my OS of choice (OpenBSD) and they are very expensive and targeted mainly at servers.  As I understand it, a desktop user wanting to run the X server, would be restricted to the vesa driver?

#27 Re: Off-topic » The only thing I don't love about Devuan » 2018-11-30 16:19:01

Ogis1975 wrote:

Men and women. Girls and boys. Do not be to sensitive.

+1 (and the fanclub is growing steadily)

To me it speaks volumes that someone will return to a thread over a year later and still having a problem with that thread and those posters, then go to another forum and post a tailor made screenshot, soliciting comments about how nasty the FDN forum is...  well you should have seen it 7 + years ago.

To his credit, headstick has helped people out at that site, but it's a thankless task, burnout is inevitable...  once burnout occurs, the FDN celebrity assholes gallery beckons...  it's then up to the burnt out remains to resist the lure.

#28 Re: Off-topic » The only thing I don't love about Devuan » 2018-11-30 15:45:23

siva wrote:

It depends on how you've encountered him tbh.  You guys have history in a way that a lot of users just don't.  Doesn't make either of you horrible people imo.

Why thank you, but I have absolutely nothing against headstick...  big_smile

Just highlighting his real persona - (also by his own recent admission on DUF).

I posted worse things than that at FDN back in the day.  If you look specifically at the comment headstick responds to, his response is IMHO somewhat warranted.

#29 Re: Devuan » Can Devuan have kFreeBSD? » 2018-11-07 10:46:41

There is this well known quote:

"If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened."

~ Linus Torvalds

(386BSD was a predecessor to FreeBSD and NetBSD.)

FreeBSD or something BSD derived would have probably been the current "Linux" had things been a little different.

I suggest that though a Devuan with a FreeBSD kernel would be interesting, it would not really offer much over a standard FreeBSD installation or that of a FreeBSD desktop oriented derivative such as TrueOS or GhostBSD.  It won't really be of interest to current FreeBSD users.  FreeBSD's package management has come on leaps and bounds, so it's now possible to install all binary packages using an apt like tool called "pkg".

It would however be far more worthwhile than a GNU/Hurd iteration.

This is quite appealing: https://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/kFreeBSD_why

Standardized kernel interfaces:
Single /dev implementation via devfs, instead of the 3 discordant ways of handling /dev that Linux provides.
OSS as the default sound system (i.e. the standard interface supported by almost every Unix-like system around).
OpenBSD Packet Filter (pf).
Security features, like jails.

Support for NDIS drivers in the mainline kernel. On Linux, NdisWrapper is unlikely to make it into the mainline kernel.
Support for ZFS in the mainline kernel. Due to license and patent issues, ZFS is unlikely to appear on Linux.
kFreeBSD is less vulnerable to legal issues. Licenses are managed in a centralized manner compared to Linux kernel's bazaar-like development model.
kFreeBSD developers often have more interest in merging new features rather than spawning forks all along (the port to Xbox is a very good example. See the responses from Linus Torvalds and kFreeBSD developers).
kFreeBSD may have better performance and/or stability especially in disk/filesystem areas with ZFS; but see EXT3 benchmark).
The FreeBSD kernel might support some hardware which Linux does not support and/or the FreeBSD kernel support might be better (fewer bugs)

Yes, devfs (instead of udev!), OSS (preferable to the ALSA/Pulseaudio mess), pf and jails...

It does seem like Mr and Mrs Devuan meeting for the first time, but before you get too excited...  the arguments presented above in this thread, i.e. that the Linux kernel will somehow get a "hard dependency" on systemd do not have any real substance.  One of the biggest "markets" for Linux is in embedded and particularly Android, which is massive and no systemd there.

The only people tying anyone in to systemd are the distributors (e.g. Debian/Canonical, Arch Linux and of course IBM/Red Hat), the big desktop environments (such as the gnome project) and various projects falling under the freedesktop.org banner.

If you avoid most of that shit, everything just works as before.

However, the FreeBSD kernel is arguably superior and I wouldn't be averse to seeing GNU/kFreeBSD moving over from Debian to Devuan - as it clearly no longer has any kind of place at the former...

#30 Re: Off-topic » IBM is acquiring Red Hat! » 2018-10-29 14:21:29

I think it goes without saying that IBM did not pay billions of dollars for some enterprise Linux distribution they could easily fork and maintain for themselves...  hence why comparisons with Debian are not really relevant (plus Debian is not a company).

ChuangTzu wrote:

Just corp.'s taking over opensource (which they have been slowly creeping into the last 15 years or so).  Once a company is traded on the stock market anyone can purchase it, same will happen the day (or after) Canonical goes public.  Look how many times SUSE has been kicked around like a can.

+1

I just posted at LQ on this same subject.

This move does make IBM/Red Hat one of the biggest donors by far to the Linux kernel. IBM are already "platinum" donors (alongside MS, Intel, google, et al), Red Hat is a "silver" donor. What else does it mean? I honestly have no idea...

But IBM/Red Hat has very little presence in the TAB or board of directors. But of course "money talks" and the project is really not in a position to just ignore those who pay for everything.

Linux has become vital to business, it's as simple as that. The fickle needs of "community" project distributions have become a secondary concern to the real business needs of the likes of google, who put out the most common Linux product by far.

These kind of acquisitions only tell us that the competitive race to get a slice of the Linux pie is heating up. Microsoft have been making their moves, who can say what will follow. But usually these things set off a "domino effect" as competitors rush to keep up. Resting on laurels and simply doing nothing is never enough in today's cut and thrust global market.

There is no telling where this is all going, no way to tell what the impact on "code" will be or the direction of the Linux kernel project going forward. It's likely that your Linux based OS will continue to "just work" going forward.

The MS Windows I am using right now also just works.

We have to consider that SUSE was also "acquired" about 4 times thus far. It went to Micro Focus International a few years ago (the same company who bought Autonomy from HP Enterprise) who sold it on - and it's currently in the hands of a private equity firm (to be sold on yet again of course).

We can't really say for sure what will happen to Red Hat in the future as a result of this. So there is no real guarantee that Red Hat won't be passed around and asset stripped, etc.

#31 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Microcode to fight Spectre and Meltdown cpu flaws » 2018-08-17 14:04:54

As I recall, "Spectre" variant 1 is not mitigated via microcode updates.  Only "Meltdown" and "Spectre" variant 2 are fixable this way.

You also have "TLBleed" and "Foreshadow" to worry about...

If you have doubts, get and build a new kernel from kernel.org.

#33 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Microcode to fight Spectre and Meltdown cpu flaws » 2018-08-16 08:47:16

Proprietary blobs will usually live in the "non-free" repository.  Assuming you have that and "contrib" enabled then you should be able to install Intel microcode (and reboot).

But more Intel flaws just in: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/1 … ault_bugs/

And you can probably expect more...

#34 Re: Other Issues » [solved] Back to Debian 7 » 2018-08-15 13:19:15

If it's just the older version of that programme you want, then maybe try adding the Debian wheezy src repository, get the source and just build it for your current release.

#35 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » In search of a privacy oriented browser » 2018-07-26 08:17:25

Unfortunately, with the exception of tor browser, most browsers are not configured for privacy by default.  The onus is really on you to do that.  Firefox for example is relatively easy to configure to be more secure.  You can even just install tor browser look at what they have done to secure the browser and mimic that in Firefox.

Iridium is pretty much configured as is, to disable chromium's google tracking, but there are still some other privacy settings for you to configure, plus script and/or ad blocking if you want that.

It would be interesting to know what "missing library" was involved?  Usually in Debian based systems it's enough to install the package then

# apt-get -f install

to try to resolve dependencies.

#36 Re: Installation » Installation without Session management and policykit backends » 2018-07-25 07:33:23

Does

# apt-get --no-install-recommends install xfce4-session

give the same result?

//edit: Never mind - just saw the above post

#37 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » In search of a privacy oriented browser » 2018-07-25 07:22:18

You cannot really be sure anything is "safe" including the software in any given Linux distribution's repositories.

There is always an element of trust - as you, being the end user in most cases, cannot audit the code.

I use Iridium and find it to be 'ok'.  I use it with both the uMatrix and HTTPS everywhere addons installed, but I'm under no illusions that it's 100% private and/or secure.

#38 Re: Installation » Installation without Session management and policykit backends » 2018-07-23 15:08:52

consolekit2 was forked from consolekit by an XFCE developer as a temporary measure.  consolekit is a dead project.  The reason for this was to allow working shutdown/reboot/etc options from the GUI.  If you don't require these, then you almost certainly don't need consolekit2 installed.  thunar may be a source of the udkisks2 and gvfs dependencies if that's still a problem?  This may be because you've installed its recommended dependencies.  But ditch the display manager, as recommended above (or switch to XDM) and you should be able to safely remove most of those.

#39 Re: Installation » non-free available upon fresh install? » 2018-06-28 16:01:16

I believe the Devuan iso images include the proprietary firmware (much like the Debian unofficial iso images).

#40 Re: Other Issues » Firestarter » 2018-06-28 09:24:09

Caluser2000 wrote:

I went to force its removal with

apt-get -f autoremove

and that sorted the dependencies strangely enough.

Not strange at all.  By including the "-f" option, you instructed apt-get to fix broken dependencies.  autoremove is used to remove any  packages which are marked as automatically installed and which are no longer needed (i.e. the packages you installed, which pulled these in as dependencies are no longer installed).  The firestarter package was not marked automatically installed, so autoremove would not have removed it.

To remove the "firestarter" package, you only needed to use the remove argument and specify the package name.

It looks like firestarter is dead upstream, hence why it was removed from Debian.  The last upstream release was in 2005, it was maintained and patched in Debian up until 2012.

#41 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Firefox Oddities » 2018-06-27 16:07:43

You're right that script blocking could be seen as security related.  However just completely turning off javascript is probably the best approach, though not practical for most people.

I can manage to browse the web by selectively disabling those scripts which just aren't needed (advertising, tracking, etc related), but the average person usually can't manage this or just doesn't know about.  This is all assuming that 100% of the issue is javascript and nothing more...  you've also no reliable or practical way of knowing which scripts are dangerous and which are not.

Hence "secure by default" is the best approach and why sandboxing, privsep, etc are preferred and very important.

It's not so much "duct tape", as just correctness - in that the OS should never assume that any installed programme is "safe", never mind the web content it accesses.  It really boils down to that the OS should stick to the principle of least privilege.

#42 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » How to install nvidia CUDA on ASCII? » 2018-06-27 13:56:41

The cuda packages you installed were intended for an Ubuntu release.  You will probably have to purge all of those first and then install it from the repositories.

#43 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Firefox Oddities » 2018-06-27 11:28:07

devuser wrote:

Nothing wrong with chromium (chrome on the other hand...). It's a solid product. I've actually considered switching to it too but i can't get used to the UI and it's lacking when it comes to plugins (the main reason i used to use FF).

chromium, like firefox still comes out of the box with google spyware built in and enabled.  chrome is worse still.  Iridium is a chromium fork which does not.  Iridium doesn't seem to be available in Debian repositories, but they do provide a .deb package.  It's available in OpenBSD ports and for Windows, hence why I use it.

Last time I checked, chrome "phones home" when installed initially.  But I wasn't referring to privacy settings or anonymous browsing, etc.

UI wise, I dislike chromium/chrome/iridium, but have gotten used to it.  I preferred the old Netscape/Mozilla/Seamonkey UI, but common sense in UI design seems to be a thing of the past (just look at the gnome project).

devuser wrote:

Regarding security i don't see how process separation (i guess that's what you are hinting at?) is all that important though. While i'll have to agree that it's (at least used to be - i don't follow this all that closely) easier to turn an exploit into a compromise with FF we are talking about last line defenses when there is already major hole in the bucket.

I'm not familiar with "process separation".  I am referring to privilege separation (privsep).  It's important for browsers, due to the attack surface offered by modern browsers.  chromium was designed from day one with sanboxing and privsep in mind, where Mozilla have been retrofitting it to legacy Netscape code.

devuser wrote:

(is there anything even close to Random Agent Spoofer for chromium?).

Spoofing user agents is really a privacy thing, rather than a security concern.  For example, you can browse with tor, script blocking and random UAs, but a vulnerability in e.g. the browser, kernel, SSL (or in the CPU!) is still a security hole and could still compromise your system, irrespective of any extra privacy measures you've taken.

There are several user agent switchers for chrome, some offer random switching, but I'm not aware if they have the same functionality as the one you refer to, as I've not used them.

Regarding extensions, I have umatrix (better than what noscript has become by a square mile) and HTTPS everywhere installed.  The extensions situation seems ok, though again extensions always have to be researched an vetted rather than installed blindly.  The Seamonkey extensions situation is far worse...

#44 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Firefox Oddities » 2018-06-27 09:20:02

While we're into suggesting alternatives in preference to solving the OP's, problem, I suggest iridium or chromium.  Yes an evil google product, but actually better put together, does privilege separation better and as a result is more secure.

#45 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » How to install nvidia CUDA on ASCII? » 2018-06-27 08:07:06

stierlitz wrote:

I was able to install nvidia proprietary driver (using deb provided by nvidia) but I am stuck on installing cuda. I get dependencies error like this:
[...]
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
cuda : Depends: cuda-9-2 (>= 9.2.88) but it is not going to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

The Debian package from the vendor breaks the dependency chain.  I hadn't realised that Nvidia provided a Debian package of the blob.  When I last used it, it was a still a shellscript.  Removing it and installing the blob from the repositories should be the first step to resolving this.

Looking at the  cuda version in Debian unstable, it's currently at version 9.1.85, so still older than the vendor version.  The version in the stable release is 8.0.44 - thus you cannot satisfy the 9.2.88 dependency via the repositories.

#46 Re: Installation » Black Screen on Devuan Ascii - acpi=off solves it (undesirable) » 2018-06-27 07:47:51

Sanssystemd wrote:

I've tried both, on root i got a display (1024x768)
As a regular user i got nothing.

You have X.org log files and the ~/.xsession-errors file to refer to.

Also once you run X as root you can break Xauth.  It's often necessary to clear up any of these dotfiles, before attempting to startx again as a normal user.

#47 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Firefox Oddities » 2018-06-27 07:41:34

Run firefox from a terminal emulator and see what output appears?

#48 Re: Installation » Black Screen on Devuan Ascii - acpi=off solves it (undesirable) » 2018-06-26 15:46:20

I'm not entirely sure as to why you're issuing startx as root?  This is wrong irrespective of whether you're trying to run a rootless or setuid x.org.  You need to stop doing that immediately if you want to troubleshoot this effectively.

The whole point of non setuid x.org is that it does not run the xserver as root (setuid xorg does), it's rootless.

Try issuing startx as a normal user.  Remove stale ~/.Xauthority files if needed.

If you still get the same error, then it's possibly due to some legacy video driver and you might have to settle for running the older x.org with setuid root.

#49 Re: Installation » Black Screen on Devuan Ascii - acpi=off solves it (undesirable) » 2018-06-26 13:45:44

i965 is part of mesa/dri, it's not the kernel module, so that is in fact correct.

What exactly happens when you install elogind and libpam-elogind as it suggests and try to startx normally, rather than running the older xserver as setuid root??

#50 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Problem with package mate-power-manager » 2018-06-26 09:54:53

This may be worth a bug report, as mate-power-manager was originally systemd dependent.  So possibly some functionality is broken.  You will need to state which release you're using.  You could also start mate-power-manager from the console and see if it spits anything useful on lid close.

Board footer

Forum Software