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#426 Re: Installation » Devuan: Existential issues. » 2022-11-25 04:38:05

devuanuser wrote:

I have been booting Unix since the eighties

Proof positive that age does not always beget wisdom then.

devuanuser wrote:

I see a problem with a usergroup

The problem is you insulting people who volunteered their free time to try to answer your questions.
If you want guaranteed professional responses, you go to a paid support channel. This is not that, this is best-effort when-we-feel-like-it by a community of volunteers. Answers are not guaranteed, correct answers even less so.

#427 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » cant extract ccd and nrg images » 2022-11-25 04:09:28

deepforest wrote:

what technically wrong with music images?

Nothing at all, I just ripped them to ogg/vorbis no problems. CDemu + K3B on gentoo, no Windows (7 or otherwise) required.

If you don't explain how you're trying to extract the audio (and with what software), then I have no idea why it doesn't work for you.

deepforest wrote:

This is 19tracks all OSTs not only from original Q2 but rouge and xatrix addons music here?

The expansions only come with 5 new tracks each IIRC, so the number sounds right. Dunno about track order though, I expect that'll come down to how the files are named.

golinux wrote:

It's about principle.

Personally I don't have any moral dilemmas when it comes to screwing Bethesda out of a couple of bucks for a 25 year old game they had nothing to do with making in the first place. Still charging for repacks of something that old is really scraping the money-grubber barrel IMO.
That said, I've bought Quake and Quake 2 at least 3 times each over the years. Once when it was young, once to have disks that actually work, and again because GOG is awesome and it was dirt cheap.

Did I mention you can get a legit copy of Quake 2 with both expansions and the netpack for $2, DRM-free on GOG already? Why are we even discussing pirating it?

@deepforest If you PM me your email address, I'm quite happy to gift it to you on GOG. Or pirate it if that's what floats your boat, I'm not one to judge. Just don't expect people to help you pirate it, at least not here.

deepforest wrote:

if you so rich why you using amator linux and do not buy licenced Windows?

I use GNU/Linux because it's free, not because it's free. Also Windows is a horrible OS, and has been getting more obnoxious with each release since XP.

#428 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » cant extract ccd and nrg images » 2022-11-24 18:43:04

deepforest wrote:

gog and steam versions have only windows setup versions how i get resources?

Innoextract works on the GOG windows installer, as I mentioned in the other thread.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Hmm, looks like the music is missing from the Steam & GOG versions. Shame.

I just extracted the GOG "Quake II Quad Damage" installer, and there are 19 tracks included as .ogg.
A cursory listen says that's the original soundtrack, though I'd have to dig out my CDs to see what's missing (MP1 & MP2 music?)

Also, it appears to come with the original AQ2 as part of "Netpack 1" big_smile

Should be as easy as 'innoextract setup_quake2_quad_damage_2.0.0.3.exe', grab the extracted "app" directory, drop in yamagi binaries and play.

#429 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » What games do you play on Devuan?? » 2022-11-23 10:25:59

deepforest wrote:

Cant extract music from that images.

Presumably you're talking about the Quake 2 nero / clonecd images hosted there? The music will be in redbook (CD audio) format. How are you trying to extract it? What about the MP3 files in the "ready to play" .rar?
Please, provide at least a little detail when asking for help.

Aside, I don't know how legit or otherwise that site is, but AFAIK the Quake 2 game files are, at least technically, still commercial software... And $2 on GOG right now with both expansions. Innoextract should work on the GOG package IIRC.

#430 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » What games do you play on Devuan?? » 2022-11-22 11:22:56

deepforest wrote:

how do similar on Linux?

Pretty much exactly the same way. '+set game<mod directory>' works for 95%, if a mod needs something else it'll be in the instructions.

deepforest wrote:

Native linux or Wine or standalone Q2 engine?

Why on earth would you run Quake 2 (or any open-sourced id-tech engine for that matter) in wine?

HoaS suggested yamagi earlier, and I concur. It's very close to the original experience and highly compatible, with a little bit of modernisation and graphical updates where it matters.
Yamagi is what the quake2 debian/devuan package will install.

I don't game on devuan specifically (gentoo desktop and all that), but from what I gather getting Q2 up and running should be as simple as 'apt install quake2', then following instructions WRT game-data-packager.

If you want to play with shiny new stuff (and don't mind compiling the engine yourself), there's VKQuake2 and Q2RTX too, for vulkan support and raytracing respectively.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

LAN party ftw!

It's not a real LAN party unless it involves Doom and a bunch of null-modem serial cables. tongue

Aside, and on the topic of old id-tech games, I think I may have a small doom wad hoarding problem...

du -sh Doom/Mods
6.8G    Doom/Mods

Not bad for a game that shipped at ~30MB wink

#431 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » What games do you play on Devuan?? » 2022-11-20 12:46:59

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Being on Steam opens up the audience

I'm sure it does... It's irrelevant to me though, since I'll never use that garbageware for anything but leeching the occasional mod.

AQ2 is great and all, but what grinds my gears is the hype and flashy advertising for what is, in essence, a repack of a nearly 25 year old mod... As if it didn't properly exist before being listed on steam or something.

#432 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » What games do you play on Devuan?? » 2022-11-20 12:25:45

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Action Quake is back!

AFAIK it never went away, and is still on sourceforge same as it ever was.
Steam blah blah hype steam... yawn.

Gotta love all the noise about it being "FREE on Steam!"... "For FREE!". When it was a free mod to begin with and the Q2 engine open-sourced decades ago. roll

#433 Re: Installation » Devuan: Existential issues. » 2022-11-20 12:13:42

Camtaf wrote:

I wonder how the poster will fair on the Slackware forums.

Poorly, if they expect there to be a preinstalled GUI tool for every administrative task and throw a "but mah desktop-iso" wobbly when people point them to CLI utilities and manual pages.

#434 Re: Installation » Devuan: Existential issues. » 2022-11-20 01:27:36

devuanuser wrote:

remember to make an effort to man up and actually answer the OP questions

Sure, I'll get right on that. As soon as somebody starts paying me to man the helpdesk. roll

In case you have somehow missed the memo, nobody here is obliged to be nice to you, answer your posts exactly the way you like, or try to help you at all for that matter.
Devuan is not obliged to provide you with anything either, let alone pander to your pedantic expectations, and the included software comes with no warranty of any kind. If you don't like it the way it is, either do something constructive about it or don't use it.

Throwing a tantrum over such trivial matters as covered in this thread is entirely on you. If you're going to behave that way, then I expect this community is better of without you anyway.

Sheesh, the entitlement of some people. All over an "alarming" lack of gnome-user-manager preinstalled FFS.

#435 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Can you suggest some tips and tricks for speed up Devuan? » 2022-11-19 22:06:40

aluma wrote:

my dial-up internet did not allow it

I was on 33kbps dialup at the time, IIRC... And I had to fight for the phone line with a bunch of weirdos who wanted to use it to talk to people, of all things.
Waste of perfectly good bandwidth that, I mean I even set up an old 486 as a router so they could IRC at the same time. roll

aluma wrote:

in my opinion there are two views on the computer. Either he is a tool for work, or it is in itself the subject of this very work.

I don't really make that distinction TBH, at least not any more. You can effectively break any system if you try, binary or otherwise, and the same goes for, well, not breaking it so you can get work done.
Personally I prefer to spend the time up-front getting my machines how I want them, so I can get work done later without being distracted by all the annoyances I would otherwise encounter.

These days gentoo doesn't really require more maintenance than any other rolling-release... updates just take a bit longer and use more power.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

This is v43.1 though, it's lighter & seems more responsive

preview
I don't usually go for horror flicks myself, but if you're saying the sequel is even better...
tongue

#436 Re: Installation » Devuan: Existential issues. » 2022-11-19 21:50:08

devuanuser wrote:

I am out of here.

So long, and thanks for being todays entertainment.

Noxious attitude aside, surely I'm not the only one who finds amusement in this prima-donna wailing, gnashing of teeth, and claims of "existential issues" over a minor discrepancy in the installer and some random GNOME management tool not being installed by default. 
Especially when none of this is really a problem if one were to, shock and horror, just use the CLI tools. lol

#437 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Can you suggest some tips and tricks for speed up Devuan? » 2022-11-19 18:15:20

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

So you've never tried apt-build(8) then?

I wasn't being particularly serious, which I thought was obvious.

Of course one can build debian packages with custom flags, same as any other distro. It's just a lot easier to build the whole system that way when that's how it's intended to be installed in the first place.
FWIW, I once rolled my very own distro, with LFS and RPM. It was entertaining to be sure, and infinitely customisable... but once you try it the gentoo way with the gentoo tools, you realise just how powerful portage is.

I was converted in 2004 and I'm still running gentoo today, for a variety of excellent reasons... Ricing compiler flags isn't actually one of them though. tongue

#438 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Can you suggest some tips and tricks for speed up Devuan? » 2022-11-19 17:24:12

deepforest wrote:

such WMs only way is unusual and uncomfortable. Or i am wrong?

The only way to find out if you will like dwm is to try dwm... With an open mind and a willingness to fiddle with it a bit.

#439 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Can you suggest some tips and tricks for speed up Devuan? » 2022-11-19 17:07:01

geki wrote:

I disabled the APT option to always install the recommended packages.

I've been doing that forever, but it's not something I'd suggest to new users since it tends to result in mysteriously missing/broken functionality in most "normal" desktop configurations.
That's not a problem if you're wiling to spend time playing which-package-provides-libfoo from time to time of course, but does require some familiarity with apt and the software in question.

As for metapackages... Most metapackages in Debian/Devuan pull in a ridiculous quantity of cruft IMO, and it's been that way for a long while.

geki wrote:

it feels just like Gentoo smile

Heresy! Sacrilege! No binary distro compares to Gentoo, they can't even build world with -fomg-speed and -fbroken-math tongue

#440 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [SOLVED] System check/audit/rootkit tools » 2022-11-19 16:07:28

I don't have a beowulf install to play with right now... But lynis appears to have very few dependencies, so it should be amenable to a simple local backport. That's far less likely to make a mess than trying to install the chimarea binary package anyway.

The real question is why... Is there actually some change that you need, or is it just "newer must be better"?

OTOH, you could just dist-upgrade to stable. You're going to sooner or later, and this might be a suitable excuse to get on with it.

#442 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Can you suggest some tips and tricks for speed up Devuan? » 2022-11-19 11:54:55

aluma wrote:

Designing a User Interface is not an easy task. Seriously, they were taken care of by Microsoft back in the days of MS3xx.

To be fair, MS swiped most of their core GUI designs from Apple and Xerox to begin with.

I have no problem with copying UI designs, so long as they're good UI designs. Changing just to keep up with the latest cosmetic trend, or worse still just to be different... Yeah, that doesn't improve anything.

GlennW wrote:

kde settings won't allow Capitals in usernames either

Egads, what's with all the fuss over this trivia? User management is an infrequent administrative task, just use the CLI.

TBH I don't get why one would want capitalisation in a username anyway, all it achieves is making it more difficult to type and easier to confuse... Which is probably why, since the early days of *NIX, 99% of usernames have been lower-case and nobody really cared.
If you want to add your real name with correct capitalisation and whatnot, there are dedicated fields in the user record for that stuff.

#443 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Can you suggest some tips and tricks for speed up Devuan? » 2022-11-18 19:29:53

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I know you don't like GNOME but you are in fact completely wrong. It's great.

My dislike for GNOME dates back to 1999 or thereabouts, when they replaced the lightning-fast (g)mc file manager with that abortion commonly known as "nautilus". I'm probably a bit biased. tongue

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

it's nice to have a polished, professional desktop in which there is actually a design principle.

If the holy HIG is going to give us such wonders as CSDs and removal of global theming support, you can have it. All of it, i don't even want a lick.

I'm pretty sure there's a secret design principle behind KDE too, it's "make it optional and let the user decide".

In all honesty though, i have tried the GNOME 3... And I hated every second of it. I don't like the workflow, and I'm stubborn enough to expect my environment to conform to me, not the other way around...
Also the file-picker is a meme. tongue
KDE on the other hand has enough options that i can turn off all the newfangled idiocy and get a traditional desktop with a minimum of fuss... Then probably fullscreen a terminal window and not really look at it for the rest of the day.

GNOME also tends to pull in all the other systemd/wayland/pulseaudio/networkmanager nu-linux crap, and if I didn't hate the design philosophy enough already that too would be a dealbreaker.
But that's probably a rant for a different thread.

#444 Re: Intergalactic Communities » devuan.ru - russian-speaking community of GNU/Linux Devuan » 2022-11-18 17:44:56

golinux wrote:

Free software should be for everyone,  everywhere to use and participate.

Indeed.

aluma wrote:

It's a personal matter, of course.

It's also obnoxious and irrelvevant to the topic at hand, of course.

A well-meaning dude walks into a bar free-software community to share his contribution...
Cue a bunch of meatheads dogpiling and turning the thread into a political flamewar, just because he happens to live in a country whose current politics they disagree with.

Politics be damned, some days i'm ashamed to be a member of this species.

#445 Re: Intergalactic Communities » devuan.ru - russian-speaking community of GNU/Linux Devuan » 2022-11-18 16:43:47

And this garbage is exactly why i don't post here very often. Too many nutters with political and/or ideological axes to grind, and too may conspiracy wackos.

Anton started a Devuan discussion board for Russian speakers, that is all. More power to him for doing something far more constructive than you squabbling children are right now.
Dutch_Master in particular, please take your political bullshit someplace else. This is a technical board, not a soapbox.

#446 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Can you suggest some tips and tricks for speed up Devuan? » 2022-11-18 16:10:39

To pick on just one sliver of the considerable nonsense in here: Why on earth would you want to disable filesystem checks?
They do nothing to general system responsiveness and we haven't had actual boot-time forced fscks for anything but "oh-shit-your-fs-is-fscked" scenarios since journalling became a thing... somewhere around 2001.
Fsck is fine, leave the poor thing alone.
So is cron for that matter. Cron is nice, and cron is useful. Cron uses about 2MB of memory, and unless you have something really dumb in your crontabs it won't do anything at all to performance.

deepforest wrote:

Trinity DE and its much faster than default xfce de.

Color me not at all surprised. Almost anything is faster than the default XFCE desktop. KDE 3.x was awesome of course... but It's also pretty ancient now.
If you want to see a responsive DE though, what you really want is KDE 1.1. That's what my Pentium MMX machine runs, and it runs it swimmingly. tongue

General performance tips: Avoid DEs. Avoid GTK3. If anyone or anything mentions GNOME or GTK4, panic.
Also 99% of things written in python/pygtk seem small on-disk, but run like a gut-shot pig compared to their C/C++ counterparts. It's a trap.

Pro-level performance on almost anything: Don't install a GUI at all. If you really must fondle a rodent, use a standalone window manager.

FWIW, I played a round of the "got a cheap decade-old laptop" game recently, and ya know what? A fully-functional (though akonadi-free) plasma install uses 200-300MB less memory than the refracta XFCE setup, and is noticeably more responsive. Got more knobs and shiny bits too.

I really have no idea why XFCE is Devuan's default desktop TBH, if I had to guess "gnome without systemd is too hard, so this is as close as we can get" is the best i have.
It sure ain't because it's fast.

RIP XFCE, the mouse got fat... Ate too many gnome libraries most likely.

Trivia: You used to get a whole GUI OS (including a web browser) in less bytes than most "modern" distros kernel + modules.
You also used to be able to fit a functional GNU/Linux system on a single 1.44MB floppy disk.

Wirth's law is all too real.

#447 Re: Installation » Install ZFS » 2022-10-20 05:27:28

golinux wrote:

Have you ever actually tried it?

To follow up on that, I just installed chimaera on a thinkpad X230, from the default live image, with refracta...
My opinion remains unchanged - What a clunky, janky, unprofessional POS.

Random terminal windows and GTK dialogs spawning all over the screen, uncloseable windows, dialogs with no content... Then I cancelled the debconf for keyboard layout to see what would happen - and the thing just started copying the system anyway, with no further interaction or chance to back out.
Speaking of that, there's no "go back" in any of the questions at all. Seriously, I think I could write a better install process myself in zenity and bash.
Slackware had a better installer in 1999 FFS, it even such shockingly "modern" features as navigable menus and package selection. roll

Remind me how this disaster is an improvement over d-i again?

At least the default desktop configuration is almost sensible, though I could really do without all the networkmanager/pulseaudio/garbage-kit bloat TBH.
Aside, and a minor niggle to be sure, but why exactly do LARGER FONTS and SMALLER FONTS need priority placement on the desktop and their own icons? XFCE had a fine settings app last time I looked, and clearing redundant trash off the desktop really shouldn't be the very first activity after a clean install IMO.

#448 Re: Installation » Install ZFS » 2022-10-15 02:44:57

golinux wrote:

Isn't choice the point of free software?

Actually it's... Freedom. Choice is just a side-effect of the "freedom to modify" bit.

Choice is, on the other hand, the reason I moved away from Debian, and the reason I'm steadily moving away from binary distros in general. Primarily, that's the choice to not install 500lbs of crap I don't want or use.

For example: Want to install ffmpeg just for CLI transcoding? Too bad, guess you'll need a bunch of X libraries, GLX stuff, fonts you'll never use, and vulkan headers (FFS) as well... Because Debian / Devuan compiles against every possible thing, and seems to be more and more aimed at desktop deployments by the day.
For another, have a look at the unholy mess in /etc on a "modern" binary distro, and ask yourself: How much of this do I use, and how much do I even know what it's for?

Frankly I find this all extremely annoying, and If I have to recompile a bunch of stuff just to get a simple, understandable OS without a heap of redundant kitchen-sink functionality and 50 abstraction layers for everything, I might as well just build the whole system from source to begin with.

Anyway, this is horribly off-topic. Maybe if the OP replies someday...

#449 Re: Installation » Install ZFS » 2022-10-15 00:28:03

golinux wrote:

Have you ever actually tried it?

Somewhere around 2010, yeah, sure. I was aghast at the lack of questions and spent more time removing stuff later than it would have taken me to just do a netinstall to begin with.

It felt like a slightly janky desktop-centric toy for one-man remixes TBH, the defaults were not even remotely what I wanted, and a netinst image + rsync already served nicely for backups. So I've ignored it ever since.

Then again, I don't run Devuan on any desktops and I never have. I haven't used anything but netinstall for as long as I can remember, and I currently have exactly one Debian box with a GUI... And that's Etch on a K6-2. tongue

So yeah, "easy" live desktop installers that don't ask enough questions aren't my thing, at all. I want my installers to ask me what I want to install (with verbosity and granularity), otherwise what's the point?

#450 Re: Installation » Install ZFS » 2022-10-11 11:49:45

Wow, this is turning into an ordeal. Really not sure why, it should be as simple as:

apt install linux-headers-amd64 zfs-modules zfsutils

All three are metapackages, and should select linux-headers-{version}-{arch}, zfs-dkms, and zfsutils-linux respectively... Or at least they do on my minimal chimera install, with both recommends and suggests disabled.

Add

apt install zfs-zed

if you want event monitoring (you do),

apt install zfs-auto-snapshot

if you want automatic snapshotting from cron, and

apt install zfs-initramfs

if you want to be able to do root-on-zfs.

Aside, you might also prefer the 2.1.5 packages from chimera-backports, there have been some improvements...

Otherwise, yeah, full output needed to see why the zfs and spl modules are not being installed.

FWIW, I did have a bit of fun getting my filesystems mounted at boot after a beowulf -> chimaera upgrade, it would appear the init scripts for 2.0.3 and 2.1.5 are both kinda broken (WRT LSB depends and ordering), this commit puts things back how (IMO) they should be.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Refracta

On that note... Any particular reason we're moving to that (unmentionable, IME) thing instead of using the venerable debian-installer? I mean, we kinda have a serviceable wheel already, no?

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