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The way things are going right now, I'm afraid the day is soon coming when we will either have to give up X11 or maintain it ourselves. The majority of developers will likely move on to Wayland, or whatever the Next Big Thing is that comes after Wayland, and X11 will likely just be in bare minimal maintenance mode by the scant few who care enough to keep it going. The workload will be massive; I'm not sure how long we could keep it up for.
The more likely possibility is that Devuan will eventually have to adopt Wayland as well, as a matter of default once Debian switches wholesale to Wayland. We'd probably still keep the Xorg packages around, but they will hardly be maintained anymore.
Unless enough devs wake up and realize where all this is headed, and enough of them rise up to unite across whatever distro is left that still hasn't adopted Wayland by then, then maybe there might be enough manpower to breathe new life into X11.
Or perhaps it's time for X12... designed on the same principles as X11, and not going in the direction of Wayland.
P.S., If I had my way at all, any IoT devices that end up in my home contrary to my wishes would be confined to a local network physically disconnected from the internet.
Alas, these days they probably come with a built-in WiFi chip configured to ride on whatever nearest clueless newbie-run open WiFi network it can find. 🤦 Y'know, just so they can phone home and provide "crucial" data to improve user experience. Oy.
I am extremely skeptical of IoT devices. Like, why does my fridge of all things need an internet connection?! Or my baby cam. These things can be made to work for your convenience without connecting to the *entire internet*. That's just totally ridiculous. Whatever happened to one device doing one thing well, instead of a Frankenstein monster disguised as a toaster running a never-updated OS full of security flaws that for whatever reason needs the *internet* in order to apply heat to a piece of bread?! 🤦
But yeah, most people are like ooooh so cool! My baby cam can download my latest FB post and insert my baby's photo automatically! Drool, lolz! And sadly it's not just common users who don't know better. Programmers and techie types who *ought* to know better are also drooling over the latest greatest bleeding edge, and jumping on the next great systemd bandwagon just cuz it's new, and as we all know new = k00l and old = bad. So we end up with ridiculous things like web apps that require 2GB of memory on a 4GHz 8-core processor running at the same crawling speed as a 16-bit native app used to run 20 years ago with 64K memory on a 4Hz single core processor. This, we call "progress". 🤷
Under Long Term Goals:
Integration with other computers and mobile devices.
That's just... wow. Just imagine the day when, for the sake of "convenience" and "integration", this nasty piece of work starts connecting to your IoT devices and collecting data from them -- from your refridgerator to your internet-enabled toaster oven, your security cameras, (y'know, so that your computer can "help you remember what you had for breakfast" and offer to make the same thing tomorrow by sending a command to your toaster) and sending them to some anonymous server somewhere out in the anonymous internet. And suddenly, some dude in a basement halfway across the world knows what you ate for breakfast and what color pyjamas you wore last night. As well as your list of contacts and who you last texted.
How does anyone in their right mind not scream bloody murder at this piece of nastiness??!
Came across this thread on the XScreenSaver website:
https://www.jwz.org/blog/2021/05/xscree … enanigans/
Favorite quote:
In case anyone is under any misconceptions here, XScreenSaver will never be rewritten as a Wayland program, so that's not what I'm asking. The day that Linux systems foot-gun themselves to the extent that they stop supporting screen-saving using the X11 protocol is the day that XScreenSaver stops supporting Linux. It will then run "only" on macOS, iOS and Android.
"Truly this is the year of the Linux desktop."
So good luck with that.
Essentially, the only way you're going to get a screensaver on Wayland is if your compositor implements it. Because the core Wayland protocol is so crippled that it does not support even basic functionality such as this, so every compositor has to implement their own, incompatible version of it. Gone will be the days when people get to choose which screensaver they'd like to use, you'll be tied down to whatever your compositor provides. And I'm betting even your compositor will be decided for you because no sane person is going to implement a desktop for umpteen compositors at the same time; eventually they will just choose one that gives them the most functionality missing from the core Wayland protocol, and that will be the only choice left. If you want another compositor you'll have to junk the entire desktop altogether, along with all its apps that are gratuitously incompatible with other compositors (unless they are so basic that they can get away only with the core Wayland protocol).
So the desktop-integration folk are moving towards the situation where nothing is customizable anymore, and the only way to use anything at all is to use it the way they have benevolently chosen for you beforehand. IOW, might as well go back to Windows. At least on Windows the integration experience will actually be better, if that's the kind of thing you're after.
Me, I'm staying right here on Devuan with X11, XScreenSaver, and ratpoison (which will never become the majority choice, and I'm happy with that). The entire reason I abandoned Windows back in the 90's and never looked back is because I'm sick and tired of vendors making decisions for me that I cannot change. The computer is supposed to be a tool to help me work effectively in the workflow I've chosen; it's not supposed to become my master, or a tool for others to force their choices upon me.
I for one am not looking forward to switching to Wayland. From what I've been reading online, it's a crapshoot. Well I could be wrong since I've never actually tried it yet, but I'm certainly not a fan of people shoving it down my throat when they haven't yet convinced me why it's superior (I don't think it is).
There is no gravity. The earth sucks.
🤣
Set the environment variable LESS=X to force 'less' to stop clearing the screen upon exit.
What's insecure about the current login page?
Anyway, 790K LOC is totally insane for pid 1. The only place this kind of nonsense is even remotely reasonable is on Windows. 😜
I'm glad I took the leap and switched to Devuan, and restored some sanity to my system.
A token is a syntactic unit in a programming language, such as a keyword, operator, identifier, or literal. Most importantly, whitespace or comments are not tokens, so the number of tokens is not skewed by empty lines or the presence or absence of whitespace, unlike lines of code. Also an identifier is a single token, so the number of tokens also doesn't get skewed by how long or short your identifiers are.
Of course, token counts are generally not comparable across languages, and depending on what exactly those tokens are the same count may represent different levels of complexity. But it's generally a more accurate measure than lines of code.
I am Ohm of Borg. Resistance is voltage over current.
People tell me I'm indecisive, but I'm not sure about that...
😜
A more accurate measure is the number of tokens in the code, because LOC can be biased by empty lines, comments, different formatting conventions, etc.. But even that isn't completely objective either, since it changes depending on language and what kind of abstractions are used. Though the general order of magnitude of LOC is pretty indicative of the complexity of the code.
But yeah, a million lines of code in systemd is like what on earth is it trying to do 🤨 And do you really want code of this complexity run as pid 1.
On my migrated system (trixie -> daedalus) I have systemd-standalone-sysusers installed, but not systemd (obviously). Maybe try installing this package to see if it helps?
Lines of code isn't a very accurate measure of anything. What matters is the complexity of the algorithms used and how much work the code does to perform a given task. If a task is complex the code obviously needs more work and resources to arrive at the result. But given a particular task, we can compare how many resources are required by two programs in performing the task. The less resources the better, obviously.
There's also of how many features the program has, and how many of them are actually required and how many are redundant or superfluous. Kinda subjective, but if you have a specific usage pattern then a program that offers lots of features unrelated to your usage then obviously it's not minimal relative to what you use it for. If a feature isn't used for the majority of use cases, we can say that it's redundant and the program is bloated and not minimal.
A comparison of what? Sorry, not very clear from context.
Check if your environment has set the $MORE environment variable. That could be one source of implicit options. Also check if your bash profile has aliased 'more' to 'more' plus some additional options.
.bashrc, .bash_profile, would be places to look for this. Remove the options or set your own preferences there.
Whoa... "Gnome" and "minimalist", in the same sentence...
I think I need to sit down.
Ratpoison's code is about 20k lines, and compiles to a 180K binary. So it looks like Stumpwm's code is more compact; the larger binary size is probably because it's written in Lisp and therefore comes with a full Lisp interpreter embedded. It's also much more extensible than ratpoison, since lisp, being lisp, can literally rewrite itself at runtime. But ultimately, the exact binary sizes aren't that important; what matters it the functionality to size ratio.
Wayland's premise is actually not bad. There are a lot of things about the core X protocol that are clearly dated; there are many things that were important to display servers back in the day that today are completely irrelevant. Color palettes being one of many examples. 2D drawing primitives that almost nobody uses because these days most programs render directly to buffer instead, or use the GPU's 3D rendering functions. Font management API that is also mostly useless because these days people use the likes of libfreetype (which renders to bitmaps and completely bypasses the core X font APIs), not to mention that the font management is stuck in the bad ole days of 256 characters per charmap, with many hacks to workaround its limitations so that Unicode could work. In short, many entrenched APIs could use an overhaul to better suit modern devices and usage patterns.
The execution of Wayland, however, leaves some things to be desired. Not caring for rare use cases that X supported is one of them. Pushing the new API down the throats of people who haven't found reason to migrate is another -- this is the same problem that the likes of systemd, etc., suffer from. An overly narrow focus on desktops and neglecting other legitimate use cases like remote clients, while being sold as the be-all and end-all of display protocols -- that just leaves a bad taste in the mouth when you try to use it thinking all the old apps would work as before, and instead hit the brick wall of reality.
They could have done this in a way that did not alienate existing users, but instead, they went and committed the biggest blunder one could when it comes to software engineering.
Here's the snippet. It's really just that one line that runs nft, the if statement is just a safety catch to detect the absence of systemd. I put this in /etc/init.d/networking but in theory it could go in its own script.
if [ ! -d /run/systemd/system ] ; then
/usr/sbin/nft -f /etc/nftables.conf
fi
I wasn't aware of any environment variables that need to be set; I guess my use case was relatively simple so I didn't need them. But YMMV.
Stumpwm is written in Lisp. I'm not sure how lightweight that would be, but my first inclination is to guess that a C app is likely to be more compact. But that's just a guess, can't say for sure without actually measuring it.
I ran into the same problem when I first switched to Devuan, I solved it by inserting a call to nft in one of the scripts in /etc/init.d. I didn't know there was a sample script already available 😅 But it wasn't too hard to figure out the exact command needed; it's listed in the systemd unit file, just gotta copy it somewhere sysvinit will run.
Yeah, IIRC stumpwm is the successor of ratpoison, I think one of the devs may even be ratpoison's dev. Supposedly it's better than ratpoison, but I haven't tried it yet, I'm relatively happy with ratpoison as it is. Besides, I'm developing my own WM in the same minimal vein, mainly for my own learning, and to try out some hacks I've been meaning to try.