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#1 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Chimaera alpha mate desktop audio.. » 2021-04-20 23:58:23

AntoFox wrote:

mybe mate have need a maintainer tongue

I have been using MATE on Chimaera for months, and have never had such problems. BUT, this is Chimaera updated from Beowulf, for what that's worth. But there seems to be nothing intrinsic to MATE that is broken.

#2 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-04-05 00:07:42

kuleszdl wrote:

That's really great news and I highly appreciate the efforts and the collaboration that seems to enable running Debian with (at least) sysvinit again - though I have to admit that I didn't try this yet.

Assuming it becomes feasible to use Debian without systemd, I don't think it makes sense to use Devuan just for the mentioned political or "trust" reasons - at least not for me. Actually, by using Devuan you have to trust Debian as well as Devuan is pulling most binary packages from Debian - doesn't it?

If things really turn out for the better in Debian, wouldn't it become more practical to reduce Devuan to "just" a pure Debian-blend with alternative inits preconfigured and systemd-depdendent packages blacklisted?

Please don't get me wrong. I love Devuan and this community. Yet, I wonder if all the effort spent in running and maintaining an own infrastructure could not be better put into the actual work needed for init diversity? With this being said, I have to admit that the wounds from the community split will certainly not heal overnight. But as an end-user who wants to run Debian without systemd, I hope we are getting back on track.

"Yet, I wonder if all the effort spent in running and maintaining an own infrastructure could not be better put into the actual work needed for init diversity? "

That's more than a bit insulting, "actual work'. Just what do you think the Devuan team has been doing for the last years? Playing around 'running and maintaining its own infrastructure'? Do you think you just pop systemd out and pop sysvinit in? You do not seem to understand the full extent to which systemd insinuates itself, and the magnitude of the task of removing it.

If Debian were ever to offer a sysvinit option on installation (which I happen to believe will be never), it will be because of Devuan's work.

#3 Re: Devuan » Meet Chimaera's deepsea theme » 2021-03-29 15:30:28

fsmithred wrote:

Here's the final version (I think). Tested in xfce (thunar) and mate (caja), both in chimaera. I'll rebuild the package later today.

.rubberband,
.view .rubberband,
view rubberband,
rubberband {
	background-color: alpha (@theme_selected_bg_color, 0.35);
	border-color: @theme_selected_bg_color;
	border-style: solid;
	border-width: 1px;
	border-radius: 2px;
}

This works fine for me using MATE (caja). What I had ended up with, which also works fine w/ caja, was simply this:

.view.rubberband,
.rubberband {
	background-color: alpha (@theme_selected_bg_color, 0.35);
	border-color: @theme_selected_bg_color;
	border-style: solid;
	border-width: 1px;
	border-radius: 2px;
}

Maybe it wouldn't work w/ thunar, though. In any case, your 'final' version seems to work fine with both. I can't claim that I really understand the css lingo...

#4 Re: Devuan » Meet Chimaera's deepsea theme » 2021-03-29 13:08:21

Whoops! I spoke too soon. While replacing gtk-widgets.css with the one from Purpy indeed fixes the selection rectangle issue, it creates other problems. Items on the panel have no spacing, the menus don't operate properly (no highlighting as you mouse over items), and perhaps a couple other things. Lots going on in that file! But I poked around and I think I have it solved, and the solution is quite simple.

In the gtk-widgets.css file in the new Clearlooks-Phenix-Deepsea theme, the 'rubberband' code at line begins thusly:

.rubberband,
view rubberband,
rubberband {

I looked at the corresponding code in the css file from the old Purpy (that allowed the selection rectangle to work properly), and it went like so:

.view.rubberband,
.rubberband {

So I deleted the opening ".rubberband" and put a "." in front of the"view rubberband", and the  "rubberband" just before the {, and voila! A translucent selection rectangle with everything else continuing to be layed out properly. So there's no need to replace files or such - just fix what seems to be a typo in the existing file.

I will continue to test and see if anything else crops up. But it seems like all is well now...


Incidentally, MATE was forked from Gnome2 years ago, and is now (allegedly) fully transitioned over to GTK+ 3. Or so they announced a while back.

#5 Re: Devuan » Meet Chimaera's deepsea theme » 2021-03-29 01:46:47

golinux wrote:

@sgage . . . does the ascii darkpurpy theme work OK on Mate?  If yes, try replacing the gtk-widgets.css, applications.css and gtk-widgets-img.css in deepsea with those from darkpurpy.  There is one color change towards the end of gtk-widgets.css that you'll want to keep from deepsea but the rest can probably fall back to the earlier gtk version.

[edit] Actually you probably need to use those files from Clearlooks-Phenix-purpy not darkpurpy.  You can find them here

Yes! That did it. I used the above-mentioned css files from purpy, from the link you provided. I will try to analyze it tomorrow, but it's bedtime. Thanks for your efforts!!!

#6 Re: Devuan » Meet Chimaera's deepsea theme » 2021-03-29 00:14:35

golinux wrote:

The fix is in compliments of ToZ on the Xfce forum. The hilighting is now semi-transparent as it used to be.  Either resort to self-help with the patch below or wait for the deepsea theme to get repackaged:

Starting line 158 of gtk-widgets,css, add a ".thunar .rubberband" statement:

.rubberband,
.thunar .rubberband,
view rubberband,
rubberband {
	background-color: alpha (@theme_selected_bg_color, 0.35);
	border-color: @theme_selected_bg_color;
	border-style: solid;
	border-width: 1px;
	border-radius: 2px;
}

Alas, this does not work for MATE. I added the stanza as is, and also substituting 'caja' for 'thunar', but no joy. I'm sure the fix is hiding in plain sight...

#7 Re: Devuan » Meet Chimaera's deepsea theme » 2021-03-27 11:50:39

Hi golinux,

I've been using the Chimaera theme for about a week now, and I really like it. But I just noticed a small glitch - on the MATE Desktop, the selection rectangle is an opaque solid white instead of translucent blue, covering up whatever it is one is trying to select. I guess I don't make group selections of things on the desktop very often, because I just noticed this yesterday :-)  Anyway, thought you ought to know.

#8 Re: Other Issues » No updates for days (Chimaera), last time it was an issue for weeks... » 2021-03-25 15:48:26

fsmithred wrote:

There were no new packages in chimaera for a couple of days, and now there are. I think it's possible that there really were no new packages. Buster is in freeze, so the changes should be slowing down.

I think you're right - I got 10 updates this morning.

#9 Re: Other Issues » No updates for days (Chimaera), last time it was an issue for weeks... » 2021-03-24 16:50:24

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Do you get updates if you switch to a specific mirror instead of the deb.devuan.org FQDN?

http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt

Even using pkgmaster.devuan.org I get "All packages are up to date".

#10 Re: Other Issues » No updates for days (Chimaera), last time it was an issue for weeks... » 2021-03-24 16:14:02

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

http://deb.devuan.org/devuan/zzz-dists/ shows the last repository update as this morning so you should probably both share your sources — which mirrors are you using?

I'm using the same sources that I have been using since I've been on Chimaera, which is months now:

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera main non-free contrib
#deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera main non-free contrib

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera-updates main contrib non-free
#deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera-updates main contrib non-free

#11 Re: Other Issues » No updates for days (Chimaera), last time it was an issue for weeks... » 2021-03-24 15:32:28

SolarPoweredMoonMan wrote:

With the amount of packages I have installed it's very unusual to not have at least one update in multiple days... Last time it was an issue where an attempt was made to optimize the download servers. Can anyone confirm that the updates are working? (This is happening on 3x separate systems). Thanks in advance. smile

Hmmm... the last update on my Chimaera system was 3/20. That is a pretty long time for testing... looking at my apt history, I've been getting something every day, sometimes more packages and sometimes less. This goes back for weeks. So yes, it seems like something might be awry...

#12 Re: Devuan » Meet Chimaera's deepsea theme » 2021-03-21 00:13:05

golinux wrote:
GlennW wrote:

I use this to update/upgrade grub backgrounds...

Editing the /etc/default/grub file to reflect the name of the pic...

(I just use the largest pic I can find.)

#restore grub modifier files
rsync -avh /home/glenn/local/other/backup/backup-etc-sys/etc/default/grub /etc/default/
chown root:root /etc/default/grub
chmod a+rx /etc/default/grub

rsync -avh /home/glenn/local/other/backup/backup-etc-sys/boot/grub/*.png /boot/grub/
update-grub

I hope this gives someone an idea of the locations used.

Devuan's grub theme is much more than a background.  That is only one small part.

All the necessary changes to manually use parts of the chimaera theme happen in /usr/share/ as described in the post above this one.  I should have posted in reverse order.  Sorry about that.

I've got it all squared away now - grub, lightdm, and all. Good stuff!

#13 Re: Devuan » Meet Chimaera's deepsea theme » 2021-03-20 21:30:50

golinux wrote:
sgage wrote:
golinux wrote:

Thanks for noticing.  berni51's timely interest in the theme was sufficient motivation for me to finally get my act together.   Also, I like to live with a theme for a while to make sure the colors are just right.  I can obsess about one increment in a hex for days!  I think that there have been 3 iterations presented in the first post.  The first 2 obviously didn't pass the long-term test. Maybe that's why you like this version better.

Hi golinux - When will the deepsea packages be in the repo? Or are they tucked away somewhere where I can get at 'em? I've been making do with a 'your-way-deepsea' png pressed into service for grub and lightdm :-)  I'd love to have the genuine articles. Such a soothing deepsea vibe... and I know it's not just by accident - I really appreciate your time and effort and caring, and your subtle perception of colors. Many thanks!

It's really nice to know that not everyone changes the default desktop first thing after installing.  big_smile   I'll try to get the files posted soon and share the links here.  Packaging will come later so the files will have to be copied to the appropriate places in /usr/share/themes/ and pointed to manually in settings etc. .

I think I can figure it out - I've been looking into how the theming for grub and lightdm work. Lots of indirection vial symlinks and such - very interesting!

Looking forward to some links...

#14 Re: Devuan » Meet Chimaera's deepsea theme » 2021-03-20 17:16:10

golinux wrote:
zapper wrote:

I am surprised, but your theme for some reason is growing on me a little bit.  tongue

I dunno why, but it looks better than I thought before.

Thanks for noticing.  berni51's timely interest in the theme was sufficient motivation for me to finally get my act together.   Also, I like to live with a theme for a while to make sure the colors are just right.  I can obsess about one increment in a hex for days!  I think that there have been 3 iterations presented in the first post.  The first 2 obviously didn't pass the long-term test. Maybe that's why you like this version better.

Hi golinux - When will the deepsea packages be in the repo? Or are they tucked away somewhere where I can get at 'em? I've been making do with a 'your-way-deepsea' png pressed into service for grub and lightdm :-)  I'd love to have the genuine articles. Such a soothing deepsea vibe... and I know it's not just by accident - I really appreciate your time and effort and caring, and your subtle perception of colors. Many thanks!

#15 Re: Off-topic » Digital minimalism. How many applications do you use daily » 2021-03-06 17:07:31

I seem to fall somewhere in between minimalist and 'normal', if there is such a thing.

Besides a terminal and file manager, GUI programs I use every day:

Thunderbird
Firefox
LibreOffice Writer and Calc
Audacious for music (mostly streaming internet radio)
Stellarium (I've been an amateur astronomer since the 60's)
VLC occasionally - don't do much video
Aisleriot - solitaire every day!
Image viewer - whatever comes up when I double-click an image file
Pluma or Kwrite for text files (nano or vim at command line)

I mostly use apt, but sometimes synaptic.
When I'm messing around trying things out, I use gparted to prepare and delete partitions.
I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

Pretty much everything else I do is from the command line. Mostly I use MATE, occasionally KDE, so all the associated stuff is installed.

Any minimalism in my approach is just because of what I need or want to do. Aesthetically, I don't like clutter. I am not in any way resource-constrained - with all my apps loaded up and multiple tabs in my browser, I don't think I've ever pushed my RAM usage over 3 GB. I have actually tried to see how much RAM I could use by opening multiple browsers, etc. I have 12 GB installed, barely ever use 1/4 of that. Ditto, I have acres of free disk space, so I keep lots of backups.

I guess I'm not real minimalist. Mostly, I don't worry about it.

#16 Re: Devuan » Why are systemd files present in Devuan? » 2021-02-28 22:08:20

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, systemd/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, systemd plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd system made useful by the systemd corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by Red Hat.

Many computer users run a modified version of the systemd system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of systemd which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the systemd system, developed by the systemd project.

HoaS, you are a merry old troll indeed :-)

#17 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-02-26 00:26:08

golinux wrote:
Morty wrote:

But from a technical standpoint alone: Is there still any technical advantage over debian 11? What are the reasons to keep Devuan when Debian has the same features?

Morty wrote:

there is also this mysterious package called "orphan-sysvinit-scripts" which seems like a substitute for some sysd packages. Not sure on that one. https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/or … it-scripts

On one hand, Debian presents the appearance of offering additional init options while at the same time, the sysvinit scripts needed to use those alternate inits are being randomly removed from Debian packages by maintainers as the second GR allows.  The "orphan-sysvinit-scripts" collects those discarded scripts so those (now broken) packages will still work with alternate inits.  Debian also does not allow alternate inits to be chosen during installation.  Devuan filters systemd dependent packages that will not work properly with alternate inits.  I can't imagine that Debian has any of those safeguards in place.  IOW, to me, Debian's inclusion of alternate inits appears to be more window dressing than a viable and well-supported solution and one that is designed to fail.

golinux, that is exactly my take on it. When you can make a Debian install and seamlessly select, say, sysvinit, I'll maybe reconsider, as well as being very surprised.

As for that reddit sh*t-show, what a joke! The opening line was basically 'Devuan is defunct. They tried and failed'. What idiocy! I stopped reading after a couple of screenfuls. It was know-nothings spewing about stuff that they, er, know nothing about. Whatever Debian decides to do or not do, LONG LIVE DEVUAN!

#18 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-02-24 17:52:47

Sadly, the alpha 3 iso does not have an option for selecting the init system.

#19 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-02-24 16:32:02

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I know it's an option for live-build but I don't think it will be in the installer.

Try the alpha3 ISO image for bullseye and report back, that should be pretty close to the release version.

I will do that.

#20 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-02-24 16:14:31

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
Morty wrote:

Debian 11 (Bullseye) will be released with runit and SysV, probably even with OpenRC. Together with a few shim-packages to avoid the installation of systemd dependencies.

The runit-init package has been removed from the dependency list for the init metapackage in Debian bullseye so technically only systemd and sysvinit are supported. It is possible to use runit-init or openrc-init as PID1 though.

AFAIK there are no "shim-packages to avoid the installation of systemd dependencies", not sure where you're getting that from. Perhaps provide a citation?

dice wrote:

These other inits that debian may be supporting still rely on systemd shims afaik?

No.

HoaS, do you know if sysv be will be offered as an option in the bullseye installer?

#21 Re: Devuan » Meet Chimaera's deepsea theme » 2021-02-24 12:57:35

PedroReina wrote:
golinux wrote:

Screenshot of an early mockup of the Chimaera desktop.

This is a very personal taste and a lot of people here are going to customize their environment. But we need a default. This one proposed pleased me very (VERY!) much.

I agree, Pedro - I really like these colors! Great job, golinux! Sorry this will be your last theme, but I TOTALLY understand...

#22 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-02-24 12:53:44

Morty wrote:
yeti wrote:

You may also need to install orphan-sysvinit-scripts for some compatibility.

YMMD!

I used Debian since its earliest days even before it had toy story names.

My relation with Debian now:

    Breaking trust can be done in a blink.
    Regaining it takes years.

So its "only" for personal reasons now? There is no technical reason left?

I know we have been hurt a lot in the linux communities the last 5-10 years. And it gets personal very fast. But it seems like we have won for now. Building up the trust again will take a while.

" But it seems like we have won for now."

The two operative phrases in this sentence are 'it seems' and 'for now'. TBH, I don't believe there's been any change of heart at Debian, and if an 'official' sysvinit version of Debian is released, I'll bet it turns out to be half-assed - rough edges, need for fiddling and workarounds, some things just not working, etc.

So for me, it's NOT 'only' for personal reasons - though those reasons remain important. I simply do not trust Debian to do as technically good a job as Devuan. It will be a sloppy afterthought, grudgingly offered.

#23 Re: Devuan » devuan and LTS » 2021-01-31 00:20:53

mckaygerhard wrote:
zapper wrote:

For those that does not know, i repeat again.. ExLTS is mostly sponsored.. but not in all, we can use the packages freelty, but companies paid the support TO BUILD packages only as they need, by example we have golang with a several bug, and no one of the companies that are paying need that package. well will not to be included.. in fact kernel is always backported, its more like the D-I backports images of kenshi muto in older days..

Okay, now I am curious of your sources... can you show me evidence of such? I thought ELTS costs money for all people.

you already learned to read ... and I already gave the wiki pages where the info comes out ... I must do your homework? .... well is clear you are missing something

You are becoming quite tedious. Why do you need to be so abrasive and aggressive? Other people seem to be able to make their points without becoming abusive. Please show a bit more respect and restraint.

#24 Re: Off-topic » A peek into the future of distros » 2021-01-28 01:00:26

zapper wrote:
sgage wrote:
zapper wrote:

This is why I believe we need more people working on an alternative operating system such as HyperbolaBSD.

Although,  unless more people work on it, it won't be out till 2024 for the base system alone. tongue

That all being said, I hope devuan will last for another 4-5 years the way it is at least... if not forever.

Dunno if that will happen though.

Only two options may exist in the not so near future, fork the linux kernel and maintain it separately or ditch linux in favor of a new solution.

I am thinking the latter may be better.

The Linux kernel is just a kernel, and not really the problem. There just needs to be distros that buck the trend(s). I don't see how ditching it would really help matters. Until and unless the Linux kernel mandates systemd, which could happen after they kick Linus out.

True enough, linux is just a kernel... but keep in mind, that alot of people (corporations) are targeting linux to screw things up.

I wonder if BSD will become the future someday due to all this abusive corporate manipulation...

Smh...

And then a lot of people (corporations) will train their sights on BSD. I don't think the 'solution' is to run. The fork won't be in the Linux kernel, but it could be in distro-land - those that roll with systemd and the other crap, and those that don't. For a start, we have Devuan :-)

#25 Re: Off-topic » A peek into the future of distros » 2021-01-27 18:31:49

fsmithred wrote:

A universal package manager with a single repository where anyone can push

WTF???

polkit and apparmor — granular...

security uploaded by anyone. Right.


That all being said, I hope devuan will last for another 4-5 years the way it is at least... if not forever.

Buster/Beowulf has another year before it moves into LTS. Then figure another two  before Bullseye/Chimaera moves to LTS. You could easily add another year or two to that, so we are potentially up to 5 years. Chimaera is already working pretty well, and Bullseye has gone into soft freeze, so I feel confident that it can't get screwed up too badly for us to fix and use it.

Chimaera is working perfectly for my (albeit perhaps not overly challenging) use case.  :-)

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