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#1 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Test ISO: refracta freia xlibre turnstile pipewire » 2026-09-01 20:29:13

You need to install dbus-x11 instead

For me that is the worst option.
I want as little of dbus on my system as possible.

Why? See here
https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … us_failure

and my post on dbus in the antiX forum
https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic … ost-118320

#2 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Test ISO: refracta freia xlibre turnstile pipewire » 2026-09-01 18:12:04

Thanks for the hint.
Yes, especially since there are no active dbus daemons on my system, dbus-turnstile-user-session probably is of no effect.
But if I remove it, audacious will go with it, unless I install some dbus dummy.
So I rather keep dbus-turnstile-user-session installed.

#3 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Test ISO: refracta freia xlibre turnstile pipewire » 2026-08-31 15:33:28

It seems that I have discovered the source of the mystery.

My system is based on excalibur and the dbus daemons are excludes by a dbus-bin pin. In excalibur there is no turnstile. So installed it from antiX and the related packages and runit service too. Among these there is the optional package 'dbus-turnstile-user-session'. It contains a script '/etc/user_session.d/01_dbus':

#!/bin/sh

DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS="unix:path=$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/bus"
dbus-daemon  --session --nofork --address=$DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS &

if [ "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" = "/run/user/$(id -u)" ]; then
    echo export DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS="$DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS" >> "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/profile"
fi

Somehow this script catches the dependencies to dbus-bin.
If I remove 'dbus-turnstile-user-session' (which depends on turnstile), all programs that need dbus-bin will be removed.

So now I understand, why I had got no dependency complains, when I installed audacious.

#4 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Test ISO: refracta freia xlibre turnstile pipewire » 2026-08-30 22:37:27

Yes, it is very weird. Sound works well and is pure alsa, nothing else installed.
Dbus daemons are excluded – only libdbus is installed.

Fortunately I see is no need to remove turnstile.
My guess: The cause is solver 3.

#5 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Test ISO: refracta freia xlibre turnstile pipewire » 2026-08-30 18:50:26

I had not checked sound. Indeed, removing turnstile deactivates sound, even if I set audacious to alsa output.

'refracta_14_test_xlibre_turnstile-20260507_1411.iso' has the same login packages installed as my system.

But I have turnstile as well. If I would purge it, audacious, mousepad, xfburn and gcr would be removed too.
I could not detect why. Reverse depends of turnstile only show turnstile-dbgsym.

#6 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Test ISO: refracta freia xlibre turnstile pipewire » 2026-08-30 13:31:07

To my delight building my system was very uncomplicated. But then I realized, that Refracta 13.3 has libsystemd0 onboard.
I have replaced libsystemd0 by libelogind-compat and libelogind0. Then I tried to remove libelogind0 or replace it by a dummy, but that did brake the system.

This would be possible by using packages from the antiX nosystemd repo. To do so I would have to rise the priority of the antiX nosystemd repo, but then I shall get conflicts with the runit-services package. Maybe it is possible with sysv-init, but not with runit.

This motivated me to check your 'refracta_14_test_xlibre_turnstile-20260507_1411.iso'
Maybe you have found a better solution.

You have installed elogind/libelogind0 installed and seatd, libseat1 and turnstile as well. Both fulfill the same purpose. So which one is active? To figure that out I have run two tests:

(1) # apt purge seatd turnstile
After reboot the system did not show any differences.
seatd and turnstile seem to have no effect.

(2) # apt purge elogind   (and keep seatd + turnstile)
This removed lxqt-panel. So Lxqt became unusable, but openbox was still working fine. Then I removed turnstile as well. Again this did not make any difference.

So in both cases turnstile seems to be irrelevant.

#7 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Refractasnapshot – Comparison of different Compression Algorithms » 2026-07-13 15:34:30

Now I have integrated these insights in /etc/refractasnaoshot.conf
The compression sections of my refractasnaoshot.conf now looks like this:

-----------------------------
[...]

# Uncomment one of the lines below to use xz or zstd compression for smaller iso.

# small and slow # relative size of the iso-image
#mksq_opt="-comp xz"              # (-4.1% to zstd -19 | -15,4% to zstd -1)
#mksq_opt="-comp xz -b 262144"       # (-2.0% to xz)
#mksq_opt="-comp xz -b 524288"       # (-3.8% to xz)
#mksq_opt="-comp xz -b 1048576"     # (-5.5% to xz)

# smaller and slower:
#mksq_opt="-comp xz -Xbcj x86"                        # (-1.5% to xz)
#mksq_opt="-comp xz -Xbcj x86 -b 524288"       # (-5.4% to xz)
#mksq_opt="-comp xz -Xbcj x86 -b 1048576"     # (-6.9% to xz)

# not as small but faster
#mksq_opt="-comp zstd -Xcompression-level 22"     # (= zstd -19 | --ultra ?)
#mksq_opt="-comp zstd -Xcompression-level 19"     # (-11.8% to zstd -1)
mksq_opt="-comp zstd -Xcompression-level 15"      # (-11.1% to zstd -1)
#mksq_opt="-comp zstd -Xcompression-level 8"       # (-7.0% to zstd -1)
#mksq_opt="-comp zstd -Xcompression-level 3"       # (-3.1% to zstd -1)
#mksq_opt="-comp zstd -Xcompression-level 1"       # (-17.2% to lz4)

#mksq_opt="-comp lz4"     # (+20,8% to zstd -1)

[...]

#8 Devuan Derivatives » Refractasnapshot – Comparison of different Compression Algorithms » 2026-06-28 17:29:11

Xaver
Replies: 2

When I was creating an iso-image of my new Refracta based system, I have noticed, that zstd -22 and zstd -19 deliver the same results. Obviously the zstd ultra mode does not work properly within Refractasnapshot. This inspired me to do some testing of different compression options.
Here are my results:

Total size of the system on qemu hd:
/ 4,09 GB + /home/ 289 MB = 4,37 GB

xz:        1572 MB    (-4.1% to zstd -19 | -15,4% to zstd -1)
xz -b 262144:    1540 MB       (-2.0% to xz)
xz -b 524288:    1512 MB       (-3.8% to xz)
xz -b 1048576:    1486 MB       (-5.5% to xz)

xz -Xbcj x86    1548 MB    (-1.5% to xz)

zstd -22:    1639 MB    ('zstd --ultra -22' does not work)
zstd -19:    1639 MB    (-11.8% to zstd -1)
zstd -15:    1652 MB    (-11.1% to zstd -1)
zstd -8:    1727 MB    (-7.0%  to zstd -1)
zstd -3:    1800 MB    (-3.1%  to zstd -1)
zstd -1:    1858 MB       (-17.2%  to lz4)

lz4:        2245 MB    (+20,8% to zstd -1)

Relative compression speed according to Allan Jude (2017):
[https://openzfs.org/w/images/b/b3/03-Op … in_ZFS.pdf]
zstd -19 = 1x    | zstd --ultra -22 = 0.58X
zstd -15 = 2.3x  | zstd -8 = 16.1x
zstd -3  = 59.1x | zstd -1 = 101.5x
lz4 = 172.3x

According to Northon Torga (2024) xz and zstd -19 have a similar compression speed:
[https://ntorga.com/gzip-bzip2-xz-zstd-7z-brotli-or-lz4/]
zstd -19 = 1x  |  xz = 0.96x

Decompression speed of xz is about 5 times slower than zstd:
xz = ~0,18x  |  zstd = 1x  |  lz4 = ~ 3.2x

Depending on hardware and kind of files the actual results may differ.

#9 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Test ISO: refracta freia xlibre turnstile pipewire » 2026-06-28 15:36:34

Based on 'refracta_13.3_nox_amd64-20260501_1521.iso' I have created a similar system in qemu.
Already two years ago I had build such a system based on antiX-23 (bookworm). It is running stable on my desktop pc as my work horse.

These have been my steps:

(1) install refracta_13.3_nox with runit and seatd

(2) exclude unwanted packages via pins in /etc/apt/preferences.d:
00dbus-bin 00java-common 00libelogind0 00libsystemd0 00mono-runtime-common 00nodejs 00polkitd

(3) add antiX-26 repos to refracta
Give Devuan a higher priority than antiX in /etc/apt/preferences.d
To stay as close as possible to original Devuan I have turned on the antiX repos only when needed.
(i.e.: Arandr from Devuan cannot be installed – the antiX version is fine. Plank needs gconf-gsettings-backend from antiX to function properly.)
Once the base system has been completed, I shall keep the antiX repos turned on for upgrades.

(4) install from antiX-26:
# apt install turnstile runit-service-turnstiled libturnstile0
# apt install runit-service-seatd

(5) install my proven Openbox desktop
no display manager – just xinitrc | no pipewire – pure alsa
This setup should work with all window managers.
Desktops do not work. They all need active dbus daemons, whereas this setup uses libdbus-1-3 only.

(6) Power Management
For power management I use acpid, xset and the script suspend_if_idle (combined with i3lock and kdocker).
[https://gitlab.com/antiX-Linux/antix-go … type=heads]

(7) use lxterminal as pseudo gui
i.e.; obsession is crippled, lxsession needs polkit
As workaround in the openbox menu I use commands like the following:

<execute>lxterminal --geometry=39x4 --title=PowerOff -e bash -c "echo -- ???_PowerOff_??? __ [ENTER] = yes --; read line; (openbox --exit && sudo poweroff); echo read line"
<execute>lxterminal --geometry=90x32 --title=clamscan_Downloads -e "clamscan -v -r ~/Downloads; echo '<Enter> to Close Terminal'; read line"

So far I have found a solution for all my software needs within this setup.
The system is light, fast and stable and maybe a little more secure than standard.

I had to create one single dummy for pkexec, because gparted as dependency of refractainstaller-gui demands it. Of course pkexec is not really needed. Gparted starts as well with 'lxsu' or 'su-to-root -X -c'.

An extra benefit: The limitations have inspired me to find better alternatives to standard apps.
Example: I use SQLiteStudio instead of the bloated LibreOffice-Base.

Linux-libre works well, but I prefer the Devuan kernel for the option of non-free-firmware.
So far xorg has not caused any problems. Therefore I have not yet tested xlibre. It is in the antiX-26 repo. '#apt install -s xlibre' does not show any problems, but all the xserver-xorg-input-* packages will be removed.

runit-service-manager
screenshot runit-service-manager https://postimg.cc/RqQnGVvg

install-xlibre
screenshot #apt install xlibre https://postimg.cc/kDFtwX7f

DevuantiX
screenshot openbox desktop https://postimg.cc/mhNFV2TS

#10 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Refracta ready for Excalibur? » 2025-12-28 20:59:31

There seem to be two more bugs in refracta_13.2_nox_amd64-20251205_0850

(1) The iso boots well with efi in Qemu. But if installed to a Qemu VM with efi and runit, it does not boot. I could fix it with bootrepair-antix.

(2) The language settings do survive the installation, but not the keyboard setting. This could be fixed by
# dpkg-reconfigure console-setup  (all settings were ok - only had to confirm all the settings)
# update-initramfs -u  (to make keyboard settings permanent)

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