You are not logged in.
That looks like a new record for age-of-machine (2003),
That's probably a typo, he must have meant 2013 as DDR3 did not exist in 2003 and nobody (except servers and maybe very high-end workstations) had 4 GB of RAM in 2003, 4 GB of DDR3 RAM was typical in 2013.
@rolfie you are talking about ancient hardware, I mean I still also have a GTX 750 from 2014 and that's still supported by the latest 580 Nvidia drivers, only GPUs from before that aren't supported anymore in the latest drivers, but even those can still be used with current distros by simply installing an older kernel like the 5.4 LTS kernel and using the older 390 or 340 Nvidia drivers.
The whole idea of sharing and mutual support seems to have practically evaporated from the spirit of Linux community
I would say that it still exists, it only has been marginalized by the corporate takeover which newer generations of Linux users aren't really aware of since they didn't experience Linux before the takeover (which has been gradual but relentless).
Also many users that come to Linux from Windows don't have first-hand Unix experience and therefore aren't really looking for a Unix-like system but rather for a Windows-like system without Microsoft, hence the acceptance of systemd and wayland.
Like many early adopters of Linux I got interested in Linux because it was a free Unix-like system for inexpensive PCs, having before had experience with Irix, Solaris and HP-UX at university and at work.
Many of those who switched to Linux more recently have never used any Unix system before, they don't care about the Unix heritage of Linux and this is why the the newer generations of developers are more and more getting rid of the Unix like features of Linux.
I don't use nvidia, because the drivers are a constant source of aggravation...
I keep reading this and I certainly don't want to doubt other people's experiences, but personally I have never had problems with them, on the contrary they have been very stable and reliable for me so far, and I'm using Nvidia GPUs under Linux since around 2007 or so, exactly because of my good experience with them.
I have to add that the newest Nvidia card that I use is a GTX 1050, maybe the problems are specific to more recent generations of GPUs?
Also I'm not a gamer (except for very occasionally playing some older FOSS games), maybe the problems are mostly with commercial games?
what kind of cpu do you have? I thought intel and amd both had their own individual graphics card functionality built in.
I have an AMD cpu, there are loads of AMD cpus without IGP, both current and older generations, recent Intel cpus without IGP are far less common but they do exist too.
70430 packages, including virtual packages
3561 packages, excluding virtual packages
That might well be but so far they are completely irrelevant, i.e. none of them provide anything useful for which there aren't better non-rust alternatives available.
I checked my Devuan installs and despite not having consciously avoided installing software written in rust I don't have any such software installed (except possibly the kernel, not sure if I make use of the kernel parts written in rust or not).
Yes I would recommend to try it out on a secondary PC, or even in a VM, not straight away on your main PC that you rely on for your daily tasks.
But even just reading the book is highly educational to understand the inner workings of a Linux based system, you don't necessarily have to then follow through and build such a home grown Linux system.
If you are looking for complete independence from any distro then I can highly recommend Linux from Scratch: https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
That's probably their (IBM/Redhat) ultimate wet dream, make the kernel depend on systemd...
FYI, this is how it looks on my Devuan Excalibur install with backports and non-free stuff enabled, but I'm not an expert of apt so can't guarantee that it's correct:
user@vm:/etc/apt/sources.list.d$ pwd
/etc/apt/sources.list.d
user@vm:/etc/apt/sources.list.d$ more devuan*sources
::::::::::::::
devuan-backports.sources
::::::::::::::
# Modernized from /etc/apt/sources.list
Types: deb deb-src
URIs: http://deb.devuan.org/merged/
Suites: excalibur-backports
Components: main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
Signed-By: /usr/share/keyrings/devuan-archive-keyring.gpg
::::::::::::::
devuan.sources
::::::::::::::
# Modernized from /etc/apt/sources.list
Types: deb deb-src
URIs: http://deb.devuan.org/merged/
Suites: excalibur
Components: main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
Signed-By: /usr/share/keyrings/devuan-archive-keyring.gpg
# Modernized from /etc/apt/sources.list
Types: deb deb-src
URIs: http://deb.devuan.org/merged/
Suites: excalibur-security
Components: main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
Signed-By: /usr/share/keyrings/devuan-archive-keyring.gpg
# Modernized from /etc/apt/sources.list
Types: deb deb-src
URIs: http://deb.devuan.org/merged/
Suites: excalibur-updates
Components: main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
Signed-By: /usr/share/keyrings/devuan-archive-keyring.gpgWhat is this mania of late of removing older stuff just for the sake of it?
I mean I can understand removing it when it no longer builds and would need major adaptation to build with current tool chains but until then there is no reason to remove things.
I have the impression that in the last few years more and more people have become unable to cope with variety and have OCD to reduce choice as much as possible (I'm not just referring to the Linux world where Gnome and GTK4 are prime examples, I noticed this in many aspects of life).
I don't know if that's due to the widespread smartphone addiction (or the ever increasing EM fields we are exposed to due to all wireless stuff) that has somehow affected peoples brains or due to something else.
Actually only one of my two Excalibur installations is missing rsyslog, the one that I installed 3-4 months ago from a Devuan testing ISO (and that I checked earlier when I wrote my previous post), the one I installed recently from the Devuan release ISO (netinstall) has rsyslog installed and running (I just checked a minute ago) so I don't see an issue with the release ISOs.
Good point, I don't even see syslogd running (it does not appear to even get installed by default).
Can someone with knowledge please clarify?
I tend to think, myself, why bother having an additional graphics card.
Well in my case the Nvidia card isn't additional, it's the only graphics card in the PC, as the CPU doesn't have an IGP.
Is this on Linux, and if so, what driver are you using?
Yes, Linux (Mageia is the distro I use on that) with the Nvidia proprietary drivers. Mageia is the only distro I know of that includes the Nvidia proprietary drivers directly on the Live CD image making the installation of the proprietary drivers extremely easy. The Nvidia card I use in the HTPC is a GT 1030.
My experience with the noveau drivers has always been bad, I wouldn't use them for anything.
have a GTX 765M and I'm trying to resist the urge to install the ancient proprietary NVIDIA driver for this card. The last time I tried, it seemed to cause more problems that it solved. In fact, I'm not even sure it's possible on this version of the kernel.
I'm afraid you might be right with that, the GTX 765M does not seem to be supported by the 535 or 550 driver series that Devuan provides, the newest driver that supports the GTX 765M seems to be 418.113 according to nvidia.com and this driver only officially supports up to kernel 5.4.
https://www.nvidia.com/en-eu/drivers/details/153781/
There are some unofficial patches that might make it work with newer kernels but for the 418.113 it's only up to kernel version 5.11:
https://github.com/MeowIce/nvidia-legacy
What I would try in your situation is to install a 5.4 kernel (for example by taking the deb kernel packages from Linux Mint 20.3 which should be fairly straightforward as Mint is based on Ubuntu and therefore Debian) and then install the 418.113 Nvidia driver.
That tells you nothing but a bloated website is running like shit which can be due to many reasons.
I think he was talking about video playback, not the website.
100% cpu during video playback is a clear sign of software cpu-based video decoding. I have a HTPC using an ancient Atom 330 cpu from more than 15 years ago and that one can play back all current videos thanks to the Nvidia card that does all the decoding in hardware, if it was using the cpu it would run at 100% and still stutter.
Debian Trixie ships with the 550 drivers.
Well it ships with both the 535 and the 550 drivers to choose from, hence this thread.
There have been many problems with nvidia after Trixie was released. Check out their forum.
Could you please post some links to the main threads you are referring to? I had a quick look but couldn't find anything apart from a few short threads about some edge cases (problems with wayland, old unsupported cards, ...).
As I wrote in the previous message I chose to install the 535 drivers on Devuan Excalibur and they are working fine, no issues so far, NVdec, VDPAU and opengl all work as expected with the applications I tested. Still have to test NVenc with handbrake. The only thing I couldn't get working yet is VAAPI, but that seems to be an issue of the nvidia-vaapi-driver package which isn't part of the official nvidia drivers.
Maybe the debian 13 problems with nvidia are a consequence of systemd? ![]()
@stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn thanks for the links, they seem to clarify it up to a point.
I also found the following end-of-life table that seems to actually indicate that the 550 drivers where short-lived and are already no longer supported by Nvidia (support ended more than 6 months ago).
https://endoflife.date/nvidia
I wonder how the Debian maintainers will deal with that, will the 550 drivers be replaced by a newer release or simply abandoned?
For now I have chosen the 535 drivers, as they appear to be still supported by Nvidia until June 2026.
I don't understand why Debian Trixie and therefore also Devuan Excalibur ships with two Nvidia proprietary driver releases.
As far as I can tell the 535 version supports the same cards that the 550 version supports, 535 is not a legacy release for older cards (which would have been a good reason to include it), so I don't see any reason why anyone would use the older 535 version instead of the newer 550 version, but surely there must be a reason why Debian included both?
Does anyone know why 535 might be preferable to 550?
easydeb sounds interesting, will definitely look into it.
I will need to build a couple of packages of apps for Devuan 6 soon as the included versions are too old for my needs, I guess that could be an occasion to try out easydeb.
I think debian is slowly dieing and we need a realistic long term strategy to fork it. I think the rust/Wayland/systemd bullshit will cause a bsds type of split in the linux world. debian has become a product.
I think Debian suffers from the fact that many devs are actually employed by Ubuntu and even IBM (Redhat) therefore they are pushing the agendas of these two corporations onto Debian.
A true community distro should not have devs that also work for commercial distros.
I very much agree with your sentiment that a split between the corporate Distros and the true community distros will be inevitable and actually desirable and will eventually happen.
Thank you very much for all your efforts, I was waiting eagerly for this release and will be installing and exploring it in the next few days as soon as I find some time for it.
rely on modern tools and technologies
Because "modernity" is all that matters to some folks these days... regardless whether "modern" is actually better or worse.
@greenjeans Thanks for reminding me, as soon as I find some time for it I will try that GTK4-NoCSD that you linked previously.
@EDX-0 Thanks for the explanation.
if you got a configurable window manager that is a non issue as ya can simply set the window manager to ignore the title hint for gtk4 apps.
But then you would get SSDs even on windows that aren't supposed to have any, like for example dialog windows, or not?
Also do you mean that the WM needs to be configured this way for each gtk4 app individually or is there a way to do it for all gtk4 apps in one go?
Doing this at WM level doesn't seem ideal to me as it needs to be done for every WM differently, if there was a way to force the gtk4 libs themselves to omit these flags that suppress SSD (I mean at runtime, not by modifying the source code), then that would IMHO be the better solution.
I'm primarily interested in a solution for XFCE but if it could be done in a way that works for all WMs that would be even better.
If I had a need for a smartphone (fortunately I don't) I would get a Jolla C2 with SailFishOS (Linux based) as it runs Android Apps too, despite not being Android based.