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#1 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-02-25 16:43:59

golinux wrote:

Morty . . . did you actually read daseins post?  A lucid analysis of the first GR vote.

yes i read it and agree with him. There was no real debate. And back in the day people didnt get informed about what sysd would turn into once they accept it. It was more like political Propaganda. We used sysvinit for many years and never had problems with it. All of the sudden it was not good enough anymore... lol

TBH i dont care anymore about the noise. The Majority of Distros just accepted it. I just try to build a technically solid, secure and minimalist system without sysd for myself. Also without PulseAudio whenever it is possible. Would be happy if i can do this again with debian. Otherwise i stick with Devuan or Antix.

#2 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-02-24 22:52:18

golinux wrote:

That is an understatement.  I think you might not have been around when all that went down so please educate yourself: Combatting Revisionist History

oh i am using debian stable and derivatives for over 10 years now and was around when the first "debates" started. My Linux journey started with Ubuntu around 2006. One couldnt overhear these endless dispute pro and contra init-freedom. Just writing about init-alternatives would get us pushed out of linux-communities or downvoted to hell. There is so much bitterness until today that i just dont care anymore.

I can see where these trust issues come from. But i also see that there is some positive progression in this regard. Things are slowly moving in the right direction.

#3 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-02-24 16:45:34

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

AFAIK there are no "shim-packages to avoid the installation of systemd dependencies", not sure where you're getting that from. Perhaps provide a citation?

i got it from these reddit users
https://old.reddit.com/r/debian/comment … t/gnjulzf/
https://old.reddit.com/r/debian/comment … t/gnmpgxy/
https://old.reddit.com/r/debian/comment … t/gnmp75t/

His detailed answer with instructions (seems like its based on the "libsystemd0" shim-package): https://old.reddit.com/r/debian/comment … d/ewdsjrq/

there is also this mysterious package called "orphan-sysvinit-scripts" which seems like a substitute for some sysd packages. Not sure on that one. https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/or … it-scripts

#4 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-02-24 16:11:31

dice wrote:

I believe the biggest difference between devuan and debian as it stands now is that devuan does not depend on systemd shims? These other inits that debian may be supporting still rely on systemd shims afaik?

afaik devuan also uses stubs/shims to resolve unmet systemd dependencies (see This Thread from a Devuan-user). I am not very knowledgeable on this topic. Maybe somebody here can give us some insights how big the differences are between devuan and deb 11?

#5 Re: Devuan » Debian getting closer to Devuan » 2021-02-24 12:50:44

Danielsan wrote:

Nice, didn't about this synergy!

I'd like to contribute with Devuan with some documentation which is the weakest point of Debian and by some extension also for Devuan, I am just a desktop user with very few spare time available but I would like to see what I can do. Where could I start? Is there like a to-do-list where I might select some topics and starting work on them?

Thanks,

D.

https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=589
https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php/de … oc_roadmap

also hang around in the mailing list and irc. there are probably a few more newbies like me asking questions smile
for instance: i would like a guide about my options to get a most minimal devuan installation which i can work with.

#6 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-02-24 12:37:49

yeti wrote:

You may also need to install orphan-sysvinit-scripts for some compatibility.

YMMD!

I used Debian since its earliest days even before it had toy story names.

My relation with Debian now:

    Breaking trust can be done in a blink.
    Regaining it takes years.

So its "only" for personal reasons now? There is no technical reason left?

I know we have been hurt a lot in the linux communities the last 5-10 years. And it gets personal very fast. But it seems like we have won for now. Building up the trust again will take a while.

#7 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-02-24 12:27:13

golinux wrote:

Now I know why I don't hang out on reddit.  big_smile 

Trust is a fragile thing and not easy to repair. 

If you hang around here for a while maybe you will understand why Devuan is so special . . . or maybe not.  It's about more than code . . .

yes sadly the reddit community was/is always heavily biased towards a pro-systemd view. As Debian opens the door to other init systems these opinions will hopefully change. Thanks to you Devuan community. I appreciate that.

I also dont think the debian votings regarding systemd were fair and many users got mistreated for their opinion in the linux communites. It always felt like a political thing to me. Like a powergrab.

But from a technical standpoint alone: Is there still any technical advantage over debian 11? What are the reasons to keep Devuan when Debian has the same features? Just trying to get some infos to make my decision.

#8 Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-02-24 05:57:34

Morty
Replies: 66

As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan (init diversity). Is there any reason to stay on Devuan?

Hi everybody!

Seems like Devuan was sucessful and Debian 11 (Bullseye) will be released with runit and SysV, probably even with OpenRC. Together with a few shim-packages to avoid the installation of systemd dependencies. Debian 11 is now in testing and can be used without systemd or its libraries.

I was wondering if there is any reason to stick with Devuan when Debian 11 is released. Did i miss something? Is there still a reason to use Devuan instead of Debian 11?


Background info: We had a pretty interesting conversation on reddit about this topic. see here:
Reddit Debian Sub
I wanted to hear your opinions on this.

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