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This looks pretty interesting. Thanks for your contribution!
Would this work with SpaceFM? Since it's forked from PCManFM (before the rewrite).
GNOME is such a bad joke. Remember when they started a "campaign" against theme makers? All in an ill attempt to claim GTK for themselves... Glad I went back to GTK2 (only stuff like LibreWolf are GTK3, which I unfortunately need to supplement Pale Moon's inability to load a lot of modern Web sites that are bloated).
Also, I highly recommend reading through the original SpaceFM maintainer IgnorantGuru's blog post about GNOME here. It was published way back on November 5, 2012, yet so much of what's written still rings true to this day -- in fact, they've only gotten much worse. A great read, still. The guy mentioning he "doesn't know what Xfce is or does" is the cherry on top.
The GNOME blog article going off about "fascist maggots" was taken down (out of shame), but you can read the latest archived version here.
Interestingly, Ardour (a DAW similar to Audacity, but far more advanced with customization features) will remain GTK2-only software (thus no Wayland support) for the foreseeable future. See this post in a Phoronix thread where the original poster cries about it "still" being on GTK2. This one is the most important, which I shall quote below:
From a project-level perspective, perhaps the most important change is that we have moved the source code of our GUI toolkit (GTK v2) into the Ardour source tree. This has no impact whatsoever on people using the builds provided at ardour.org 2.
However, this version of GTK is about to be deprecated by a number of Linux distributions, and without this change it will become more difficult for both individual users and Linux package maintainers to continue building Ardour. This also leaves us free to (slowly) strip down aspects of the toolkit that we do not use, and potentially modify it as needed in the future. It also means that even the distribution builds of Ardour for Linux will contain our patches to GTK, which has historically not been the case.
Q: "Does this mean native Wayland support will come in the future?"
A: No plans for Wayland support. Doing the work will get our users nothing, more or less.Q: "No plans to update to a newer GTK version?"
A: "No plans to ever move to a newer version of GTK. That work will get our users very little, and so the cost/benefit analysis says “nope”."
Looks cool. What toolkit are you using?
Apart from probably the search bar, you could also create this using YAD (maybe even Zenity). I've been studying up on some custom GUI boxes using this method. This example for reading system information is one of my favorites I've come across so far (a nice drop-in replacement for Hardinfo). It looks good on GTK2.
@LibertySysadmin:
If you use IRC, there's also an #xlibre channel at irc.libera.chat.
Some useful information here:
Well somebody has to actually test the thing, no? If we all just sit around waiting for the magical pixies to do everything, nothing gets done.
No, I would be happy to test it out and report back on any issues I find. I just dislike the rituals of compiling in general. Provide the necessary DEB files, and they'll be stress tested.
Wayland is banned in this house, and I withhold any support I might've had for projects that started deprecating X11 and/or pushing for Wayland adoption.
Yeah, I can't wait to finally start using XLibre by means of DEB files. I know I could just compile, but I'd rather trust an experienced packager with getting that available on Debian (whether officially or unofficially) first.
If and when I am forced to move on from Daedalus (because there's going to be even more Systemd when Debian releases Trixie, plus more bloated horseshit from upstream) or onto some rolling release distro, XLibre will be mandatory for me to install and use.
I VIL not install Wayland and I VIL be happy.
I just hope XLIBRE isn't tainted by the ideology of the person developing it. He supposedly is a fascist, I hope he keeps his views out of his project.
Seems like he keeps much of his views out of the project, so "both sides" can be happy about that. What, because the Code of Conduct page says "404", that makes him a "fascist"? Or someone who's just tired of all the GNOMEsense (pronounced "nonsense")? For what it's worth, I agree with him on most of his personal politics (especially the risks of the mRNA jabs, which I am glad I never got) and would be really disappointed if he was just LARPing all along.
But, that's another topic for another day. This is about the software, not what we personally think of the author. I'll gladly prefer him over some mentally ill cross dresser doing everything in his power to stifle the GNU/Linux desktop experience. A lot of of us have had enough of that. It's already conflicting there are anti-Wayland folks who don't mind Systemd. They should be cautious of both.
Although, Xenocara also exists and I tend to think that might be a better option.
OpenBSD's Xenocara is already experimenting with Wayland.
Do the happy dance! I finally got rid of Thunderbird as my e-mail client, thanks to the versatility of Claws Mail (last GTK2 version being 3.17.8). Much like SpaceFM, it's very customizable, and you get a lot of handy plugins for security and encryption. I recommend this guide to hardening your Claws Mail profile(s). Claws Mail's official wiki can also be a good resource on setting things up. Surprisingly, the ArchWiki does not have a page on Claws Mail (they usually do).
For a worthy RSS feed reader, I recommend using the last GTK2 version of Liferea, which is 1.8.7, but the last one Debian packaged is 1.8.6. The dependencies should be resolvable if using the standalone DEB from sometime in 2012 (the current Debian stable release at that time was Squeeze, but Wheezy was a year away from the testing freeze).
Anyway, Liferea is great, and it has some cool features, like managing different categories for your feeds, opening an item within the program (in a new tab, as if it were a browser), minimizing to a tray icon with notifications and total new feeds, and setting up proxy connections and what to use to download file enclosures (e.g. Mpv for videos, Leafpad for text files). It's a great tool that's still useful to this day.
Thanks to Liferea's exceeding pros, I no longer have a use for Newsboat, which was already freezing up at random and has Rust stains in its code...
https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver
Looks like Xorg enjoyers like myself can breathe a sigh -- the legacy display server has been hard forked as XLibre now by the 2024 top commit contributor to the project.
Artix GNU/Linux will be packaging this on their official repositories soon, although I know Devuan's maintainers will say this is of no interest to them, because it doesn't have anything to do with Systemd (regardless of their manpower).
So, who wants to bet Debian will show any interest in this (not all of their developers like Wayland)? In the near future, giving the user the choice between Wayland and Xorg XLibre doesn't sound all that bad to me...
Also, for those who were wondering, yes, they do have a Code of Conduct.
@greenjeans:
Good call on the AppImages. They can be a simple and efficient way to access software rarely packaged onto your distro without the need for building or installing from third-party repositories. Besides, you could use the LibreWolf AppImage for the time being to get a feel for the browser -- try it before you actually do install it from their Debian repository. Just remember to set it as executable (or chmod +x it), or it won't launch.
Might I also recommend, while we're on the subject of AppImages and modern browsers, to have a look at the FreeTube privacy client for watching YouTube videos ad-free? It's very user-friendly, "modern", and uses their own servers for their API (Invidious relies on Google's servers). There are DEB files available, but you could also try their AppImage, Flatpak, and other provided packaged binaries for GNU/Linux.
The Lunduke Journal is one of the few open-source spaces on the Web that has enough clout to directly fire back against the leftist manifestation and corruption of GNU/Linux and free software in general. Bryan Lunduke works hard to expose the rats infiltrating the community, which is a brave effort on his part.
Besides, he even gave his thumbs up to Devuan for not being a political distro (unlike the majority of the non-Systemd ones heavily focused on woke ideology). Lunduke is a legit guy, and no, not a fascist at all. In fact, he's admitted a couple of times that he is Jewish himself.
The fact that Lunduke manages to piss off the very people in GNOME, Red Hat, and whoever else is whipping out their CoCs on software means that he's doing something right.
As for the DE question, the answer is to either build or install Xfce 4.12 (GTK2 only) on your system, and switch whatever else you can back to GTK2. GTK3 and newer belong to GNOME's stinky foot mascot. Qt is not the solution.
Note that this is only intended for experienced users. Do not attempt otherwise.
Unhappy with the direction Xfce has been going since the 4.16 release (CSD and all), I've considered just going back to 4.12 (while staying on Daedalus), which I successfully pulled off by preferring Beowulf's repository for all my Xfce-related packages. The problem, however, is that some of them depend on GTK3 (as 4.12 has partial GTK3 support). What I then did was enable the archived repositories for Ascii and even Jessie, and I ensured that my Xfce would be completely unaffected if I decided to run sudo apt autoremove libgtk-3-0.
Another issue is that I had to use the Jessie versions of xfce4-terminal and xfce4-notifyd, as those were already depending on GTK3 as of Ascii. After successfully "downgrading" my packages accordingly, and seeing that Xfce has been purely GTK2-ized once more, I set a negative pinning on the packages to prevent them from being "upgraded". I only had to redo my Thunar configs (although I'm much happier just using SpaceFM as my file manager, even as a transparent overlay on my icon-less Xfce desktop) and set a script for my panel's CPU temperatures (with xfce4-genmon-plugin).
Going even further, I was able to get the GTK2 versions of GParted, GSmartControl, Meld, Gnumeric, Atril, Engrampa, FileZilla, Audacity, EasyTAG, Geany (although I mainly just use Leafpad), and AbiWord back, but some of those had to be done rather "dirtily" to get the results I sought (i.e. by enabling the archived repositories for Debian's Lenny, Squeeze, and Wheezy releases). It wasn't something I wanted to do, but I was able to resolve all dependencies rather carefully.
Maybe it's "Frankensteined" in a way, but I find the system just as functional as before (if not more so now), and I seldomly tinker with software nowadays. I simply wanted to get rid of GTK3 and its problems. Now, some programs I couldn't actually do that, namely with Firefox ESR, LibreWolf, Thunderbird (although I guess Sylpheed remains an option), Alacarte (because I like customizing my menus, and KDE's menu editor flat-out sucks), and Synaptic (which I keep around in case I don't feel like typing up command lines). I couldn't get the GTK2 version of NetworkManager's applet to install, so I'm using the Qt5 alternative in nm-tray.
Has anyone else tried this? I'd be curious as to a different solution from mine.
The "jokes" in this thread are mostly lame, recycled dad jokes that only dads themselves find funny.
On the other hand, taking a "joke" thread seriously (in any context) is actually pretty hilarious. First time I burst out laughing on here (since the quote-to-reply button was removed).
I would be a lot more excited to see SpaceFM (particularly the GTK2 version) continue to be maintained by someone who believes in the software without it losing its features (e.g. customization) or having all sorts of modern dependencies slapped on it (the Thermitegod fork is a shining example of that, which I couldn't even build with Devuan Ceres), when it literally "just works" with or without much of the accursed UDisks2 or D-Bus infestations.
In contrast, Thunar, Caja, Nemo, Dolphin, Konqueror, PCManFM-Qt, Xfe, Gentoo, etc. are all slow, bloated, and/or featureless pieces of software. SpaceFM is also the only GUI file manager that allows you to have four panels (among the keybinds you could set), which makes it a lot more comfortable for a power user on the desktop. It truly sucks that IgnorantGuru stopped maintaining it, and the GitHub repository has over two hundred reported issues. Using patches to work around some of these issues for now.
With that said, good luck with "GNOME/2". Besides, how would that even look if you wanted to install it on your distro? Something like sudo apt install gnome-2? (Since the forward slash would designate a different version of the software you'd like to install, such as sudo apt install xfce4/beowulf signifying you want the Xfce 4.12 desktop metapackage instead of 4.16, 4.18, or 4.20.)
As a twenty year old single male I think it's very hard to find a girl who's actually interested in free software. I've had girls jokingly ask to "Netflix and chill" but when I tell her that I don't use Netflix since Netflix requires proprietary software to stream content, they stop talking to me. And worse if they do stay they think I'm weird since I blocked google IP's in my host file and we can't even watch youtube. I can't ever seem to get girls to come over to my place and I can't text them either. Once I get their numbers since I've added customs roms to my phone and refuse to use sms since it's a security concern I require all of my friends to download a free and open source messaging app and I share with them my public gpg key so that we can verify that our conversations are secure. None of my friends are willing to do this. And I can't use sites like tinder since it's not only proprietary software but a major privacy vulnerability. How come it is so hard to find a girl concerned about software freedom. I feel like I'm going to be a virgin forever.
EDIT: Btw the this post is GPLv3. So feel free to use it however you want but please send you changes back to me.
I recommend the following retro and indie game emulators (most can easily be installed with your package manager):
DeSmuMe
Dolphin Emulator
DuckStation (download the last functional AppImage for Daedalus here)
EasyRPG Player (use the official repository here)
FCEUX
I.K.E.M.E.N. GO / Ikemen GO (download the official binary here)
Kega Fusion (download the DEB binary here)
mGBA
Mupen64Plus-Qt
PCSX2 (use the 1.7.0 64-bit version from the official PPA)
RPCS3 (download the AppImage here)
Snes9x (download from their GitHub or use the 1.60 DEB binary that one of the project's maintainers Bearoso compiled)
Debian and its derivatives are not meant to be used in that way. You should be using a rolling release distro if you want the latest versions of packages. Your only other option is to compile it from source.
Just install Xfce 4.12 if you want GTK2 back, which Devuan Beowulf still provides. You can do it easily without taking down your entire system, since Xfce's dependencies are more from within. Just some packages like xfce4-helpers that you'll need to remove to get the 4.12 or earlier versions back. With proper Apt pinning work, you can prevent Xfce from being changed any further. Keep in mind that you might have to redo your Thunar Custom Actions, so back up all of your Xfce configs.
Political opinions should only represent the individual, instead of the entire project. Debian is like that old man at a teen party spitting out trendy buzzwords to stay "cool" with that crowd, but it only works against their favor. Their association with Outreachy was kind of the writing on the wall, even more so with Systemd having been adopted "coincidentally" after its founder's death.
I will keep using and supporting Devuan, provided that the project focuses on good code over all else. If you follow OpenBSD's example in eating your own dog food, the users will come. I understand that you get most of your dependencies straight from Debian, but Devuan still provides some technical sanity to this day, when not everyone is into rolling releases.
Nearly all laptops released after 2014 are pretty much pozzed with the planned obsolescence crap sprinkled on top. I got multiple Dell Latitudes sitting here ("latest" one being from 2018), and the ones from 2012 through 2014 are certifiably rock-solid products.
My main two laptops that I take with me on trips are both E6440 models, with three storage devices each (including the WWAN slots where I placed the mini SSDs on as my OS partitions, as well as the optical disc drives being replaced with those inexpensive secondary HDD adapters you can find via eBay and elsewhere), at least six or seven hours of OEM battery life guaranteed, and comfortable enough to type on. Those things just aren't being made anymore, and it annoys me how cheaply plastic and thin those newer Latitudes are. I get that the Haswell CPUs run pretty hot at times, but I got the i7-4712MQ on them running like a charm for the most part.
Interestingly, my Dell Inspiron B130 from 2006 (original owner) still boots up its ancient Pentium M CPU with a single core. Since I know it'd be overkill to upgrade, I keep Devuan Beowulf on it, using the lighter Xfce 4.12 instead of the bloated newer versions that only use GTK3 now. Only thing I need to do is replace the CMOS battery, although my chances of getting a functional OEM battery for that model are slim, so I just keep it plugged in when in use.