The officially official Devuan Forum!

You are not logged in.

#2 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [SOLVED] Alternative/simpler MTA for Devuan » 2021-11-16 18:37:03

Altoid wrote:

Anyone here using DMA on their Devuan system?

Yes.

#3 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » apt-pinning for Gnome-40 packages from Daedalus with Chimaera? » 2021-10-19 04:48:03

What a truly horrifying idea.

If you really want to break your system, nothing much has changed recently regards apt-pinning and /etc/apt/preferences still works.

Personally I use something like

Package: *
Pin: release n=<release codename>
Pin-Priority: 1

If I need something from another release.
But that something is going to be a small package with no major dependencies, and I'm going to watch apt like a hawk to make sure nothing else gets pulled in... because I like my system non-borked. I expect trying it with a behemoth like gnome would be a total disaster.

#4 Re: Off-topic » ssd failure » 2021-10-12 10:14:35

hevidevi wrote:

any recommendations? Im thinking possibly WD or maybe Samsung.

I'm running 5 samsungs, 4 kingstons, 2 intels, an ancient OCZ, and a couple of random (micron OEMs IIRC) drives in various applications ATM, and I haven't had any problems with any of them... Besides a couple of the kingstons griping about being out of write endurance, but then they've been doing that for about 6 months now and they're still working fine.
That's a very small sample size of course, but the samsungs and kingstons regularly get the same kind of thrashing that killed those crucial drives, and they don't even blink.

I don't know anything about WD SSDs since I've never owned one, and as far as Gigabyte goes... TBH I'm pretty biased there. I've considered anything Gigabyte to be pure refuse since about 2004, and I don't know if quality has improved in the intervening years because I haven't bought from them since.

If I had to pick, I'd probably say Samsung or Intel of you want performance, and Kingston if you want dirt cheap without being completely horrible. But I'd also say take with a large grain of salt, because I don't have any real data to back it up.

#5 Re: Off-topic » ssd failure » 2021-10-12 04:46:10

hevidevi wrote:

I will have to keep an eye on the ssd temperature on the next one i buy.

To be fair, it was one of the budget BX series. They're cheap for a reason and the specs are mostly lies.
I already had a good rant about them here, so I won't repeat it.

#6 Re: Off-topic » ssd failure » 2021-10-11 03:45:43

hevidevi wrote:

Anyone ever had this happen?

Yup, and it was a Crucial as well. Overheated and died under a sustained write workload despite being in a fan-cooled drive cage that didn't exceed 25C ambient.

#7 Re: Installation » [SOLVED] swap using file rather than partition » 2021-10-09 23:59:12

nobodyuknow wrote:

Is there any performance difference between partition-swap and file-swap?

On an SSD, probably not, assuming you're using a non-exotic filesystem. On a mechanical HDD, the traditional reasons for using a swap partition are avoiding fragmentation (and thus expensive head seeks) and the ability to place the swap partition on the fastest part of the disk (pi and RPM vs linear velocity and all that).


Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

@p.H over at the Debian forums maintains that swap files are a dirty hack because swap is designed to operate on block devices and they seem to know what they're talking about.

It certainly was, and he sure does.
My (admittedly fairly limited) real-world tests don't show any performance penalty for swap files though, at least not on an ext4 formatted SSD. Swap files have been a thing for many years, so I'd expect most of the bees are ironed out by now.


Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

The fact that btrfs has only recently gained the ability to support swap files would seem to confirm this.

TBF, BTRFS is a COW filesystem. Swap files on COW filesystems are always going to need explicit support from the FS, and are always going to be a hack.
If running BTRFS (or ZFS), I'd go with a swap partition any day. Ideally more than one and on different devices so they can stripe.

#8 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » How to change locale for user ? » 2021-09-30 06:59:36

As far as the terminal and such goes, set and export the LANG (and/or other related vars, see man 7 environ and man 7 locale) environment variable somewhere in your profile or shell rc files, same as on Debian.
I don't know what DE or other graphical stuff you're running, so I can't really comment on that.

#9 Re: Installation » Devuan and LEMP. PHP 7.4+? » 2021-09-23 19:38:08

As I said, the packages from tdrnetworks need a higher priority. The whole point of that repo is providing php-fpm & co without systemd deps.

~$ apt-cache policy php7.4-fpm
php7.4-fpm:
  Installed: 7.4.22-1+devuan3~1
  Candidate: 7.4.22-1+devuan3~1
  Version table:
     7.4.23-1+0~20210826.50+debian10~1.gbpb41c6a 200
        200 https://packages.sury.org/php buster/main amd64 Packages
 *** 7.4.22-1+devuan3~1 500
        500 https://pkgs.tdrnetworks.com/apt/devuan beowulf/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

#10 Re: Installation » Devuan and LEMP. PHP 7.4+? » 2021-09-23 05:07:21

Aleksanders wrote:

It recommended for NextCloud

I'm running nextcloud on beowulf, with PHP 7.4.
The trick is that pkgs.tdrnetworks doesn't include everything, so you'll need packages.sury.org in your sources as well, i.e.

deb https://packages.sury.org/php/ buster main
deb https://pkgs.tdrnetworks.com/apt/devuan beowulf main

You'll likely also want something like:

Package: *
Pin: release o=deb.sury.org
Pin-Priority: 200

(or any priority lower than that assigned to tdrnetworks) in /etc/apt/preferences so the fixed packages take precedence, and stuff from sury.org is only pulled in if it doesn't exist elsewhere.

#11 Re: Off-topic » The rise of Artix and decline of Arch on Distrowatch » 2021-09-16 08:43:45

Ron wrote:

Artix Linux slipped under my radar, I never heard of it before. It looks like a good distro.

I tried it for a while, when I was looking for a systemd-free distro for my desktop and Devuan was still woefully behind even Debian stable WRT package versions.
It was nice in it's default setup, but anything beyond that ran afoul of the Artix repos being slim pickings, and compatibility (read sync) with the upstream Arch repos, even for init-unrelated things, being a constant source of pain.

The library version incompatibility problems actually reminded me of early-days (2006-2008) Arch itself... And the reasons I stopped using it.

If you do try it, I'd be interested to hear how (and if) it's matured. I might give it a spin again one day.

#12 Re: Other Issues » recommend a good email prgram » 2021-09-09 05:14:39

Claws on my XFCE netbook, Kmail on my KDE desktop, and roundcube webmail if I'm working remotely. All talking to my self-hosted (devuan, obviously wink) imap server.

#13 Re: Installation » Network Issue With Devuan » 2021-08-29 02:42:39

Right, now we're backing away from "You're mentally sick" with an apology?
Frankly, I expect you've thoroughly burned your bridges here already. You started this. You started swearing and rubbishing the Devuan devs while people were trying to help you. You then resorted to personal attacks.

Others might be more inclined to forgive this little tantrum, but I'm certainly not going to bother talking to you any more. I'm sure as hell not going to engage in the little game of semantic trolling you seem to be trying to start with your last wall of text.

As a wise man once said, plonk.

#14 Re: Installation » Network Issue With Devuan » 2021-08-28 20:28:17

golinux wrote:

That took on a renewed importance @2012 when the previous "play nice with n00bs" policy was implemented at FDN and there was a substantial exodus from FDN to DUF

Yeah, I do remember that. I kinda arrived at FDN just as or just before many of the more knowledgable users left.
I also remember when FDN was literally a server under someone's desk, run entirely without interference from the Debian devs.

Now it feels like there's all of about 5 people over there who know what they're talking about and still try to help, and the rest is a windows-noob echo-chamber.
Personally I don't mind noobs per-se, but there's a level of pigheaded unwillingness to self-help which makes me far more inclined to just chill with some popcorn.

Between the latest iteration of the "be nice" CoC, the social-media forum "upgrades" complete with "likes", and the unending torrent of frankly terrible advice from the blind leading the blind... Let's just say it saps ones will to engage constructively.

I absolutely do not want to see the same happen here. If Devuan is indeed "hurting it's own cause" by not being as easy for lazy windows-refugees as Ubuntu, that's totally fine.
I'd much prefer to converse with a handful of motivated users than a horde of lazy people expecting a free edition of Windows anyway.
IME the latter is easily identifiable by their belief that they're owed something just by using the distro, and that market-share matters to anyone. OP looks like a pretty good case in point to me.

Whatever happened to the old "Leave your commercial software expectation baggage at the door, and roll up your sleeves because you'll need to get your hands dirty" adage anyway?


golinux wrote:

Many have landed here . . .

True, though many more have seemingly just vanished.

#15 Re: Installation » Network Issue With Devuan » 2021-08-28 17:52:11

Jakoline wrote:

nobody knows what FDN means it's called debian forums

No, it's not. forums.debian.net is logically abbreviated to FDN, always has been, always will be.


Jakoline wrote:

You're mentally sick

And you're obnoxious.


Jakoline wrote:

I was treated with disrespect

A) No, you weren't.
B) If you want respect, earn it. Like everyone else does.


Jakoline wrote:

Why do you use LOL? Isn't that a social-media herd sociology thing?

LOL was in use on BBS systems in the late '80s. You're clearly too young to remember.


Jakoline wrote:

hundreds of posts on Debian forums which I suppose you're capable of answering but you never do.

Speaking only for myself of course, I've given up on FDN. The sheer scale of the help vampire infestation is depressing.
With the place so full of people who both expect some kind of special treatment (i.e. didn't read the "no warranty" clause in the installer and expect the equivalent of paid support for free), and can't be bothered with even elementary netiquette (e.g. not posting huge images of text), I'm surprised any help goes on there at all.


Jakoline wrote:

a distro which by default blocks networking and remains untested and unnoticed for god know how long does not have my respect.

What makes you think Devuan wants respect from the likes of you anyhow?


Jakoline wrote:

Forcing a single desktop upon users (which is in itself not a problem) while providing the illusion of choice (tasksel) also does not have my respect.

Devuan ships a well-tested default desktop configuration with sane choices specifically for people who don't know what they're doing (or what they want).
If you deviate from that, you're expected to pay attention to what software you install. This is neither new, nor unusual.

And again with this "your respect" thing... As if that's something to be desired. You clearly expect people to respect your opinions and time, yet you give nothing back.
How about "respect" for the unpaid volunteers who made Devuan a thing to begin with, huh? Where's your contribution that  entitles you to be so critical?


Jakoline wrote:

The developers know for a fact that devuan+xfce is the only tested option, why provide tasksel?

Just to screw with self-important tools like yourself, obviously. roll


Jakoline wrote:

Devuan cost me 2 days plus 1 day to return for debian 10 plus maybe 14~ GB total of my monthly data cap, which is highly expensive here in Egypt.

Your poor choices and lack of prior research cost you time and data. Devuan is free.


Jakoline wrote:

You're literally a lying pig.

I looked the other way when you made similar accusations and generally acted like a spoilt brat over on FDN. I'll not do so again.
Nobody here owes you anything. The Devuan developers don't owe you anything either.
The door is right over there, if you don't like this distro then I suggest you use it.


Jakoline wrote:

I have the right to feel mad.

You have the right to do whatever you like... But kindly do your trolling somewhere far away from here.


As for your initial problem, it takes all of a few seconds to install rfkill from the installation media. That's why it's on the  installation media.
Shock and horror, some people installing Devuan aren't intending to use it on a laptop, or as a desktop. They don't need rfkill or any other wireless networking bloat, so installing it by default when the desktop task isn't selected would be counterproductive.

On the whole, if you're more interested in obnoxious ranting than in solving your own problems, I suggest you go back to one of the "easy-mode" desktop-oriented distros, like Ubuntu.

You've already shown that you can't handle IRC, have problems with people expressing real feelings, and consider such banal things as edit history "harassment". Has it occurred to you that it may be your attitude which is the problem, rather than pretty much the entire FOSS community (which got along fine without you the last ~25 years)?

I was actually going to say "Welcome to Devuan" when I saw you over here... That is until I read your latest asinine ranting.
I'll not make that mistake again. If you want to behave like a child, do it elsewhere.


PSA @ everyone else: This user has a history of kicking up a fuss over nothing, policing other people's language and attitude while acting like a spoilt brat and slinging personal insults themself, and borderline trolling WRT systemd over on FDN.
I honestly suggest the best course is to simply ignore them from here on in, or at least until the entitled attitude improves.

#16 Re: Devuan Derivatives » An example of how Trinity Desktop Env (TDE) can look on Devuan ASCII » 2021-07-27 04:56:52

samhain wrote:

All "modern" DEs simply fall flat when it comes to configurability.

IME KDE5/Plasma isn't too bad. It's not quite as configurable as KDE3 was, but it's pretty flexible and can certainly still be set up for the traditional desktop paradigm.

I can't really comment on it's "lightness" WRT Debian/Devuan, but it's pretty light over here on Gentoo. There are advantages to compiling in only the stuff you actually want.

GNOME on the other hand... I've never understood the direction GNOME went, and it gets more bizarre with every release.

#17 Re: Devuan Derivatives » An example of how Trinity Desktop Env (TDE) can look on Devuan ASCII » 2021-07-26 07:01:02

bimon wrote:

Please take into account that my Devuan ASCII is capable to run relatively modern software from its repository and ZFS 0.8.6 from more recent Debian releases, many WINE version till the latest, many Windows compatible programs like Microsoft Office, Far, IrfanView, DotNet tools like DevArt Entity Developer.

You did notice the [razz] on the end of my post, right? Here, I'll do it again for good measure tongue

Then again, I'm not really sure why one would want to run ASCII with a bunch of backports now that Beowulf is stable... Does TDE not build on Beowulf or something?

#18 Re: Devuan Derivatives » An example of how Trinity Desktop Env (TDE) can look on Devuan ASCII » 2021-07-26 05:14:02

NicePics13 wrote:

Do you also need an old distro or is it possible to do on Devuan?

Slackware 7.1. Same as I ran back in the day when my daily driver was similar hardware.
Modern Debian/Devuan is far to fat for the box in question. Even a CLI-only install would be barely usable, and modern X is a no-show as proper support for the GPU chipset disappeared somewhere around 2002...
AFAIK the latest distro that still has the required XFree86 3.x is Slackware 8.1, but that ships KDE 3.0.something, and I don't think KDE3.x is going to be much fun with a 100Mhz CPU.

Also modern Devuan kernels do not fit on floppy disks, and the old IDE driver for the VLB chipset is gone too. sad

It's probably possible to run KDE1.x on a modern distro though, for some definition of possible... I expect it would need some patching for compiler / libc changes at the very least.


NicePics13 wrote:

the desktop with OS (including ZFS) consumes only 1Gb

Bloat!
Slackware 7.1 consumes <4MB RAM at the CLI with default services loaded, and somewhere around 18MB at a KDE 1.1 desktop. tongue

#19 Re: Devuan Derivatives » An example of how Trinity Desktop Env (TDE) can look on Devuan ASCII » 2021-07-24 12:18:22

As much as I loved KDE3 back in the day, the setup in those screenshots is way, way to busy and far too... Lime for my taste.
No offence, that's just me, I kinda have a thing about 900 icons all over the place when there's a perfectly good application menu to be had.
Each to their own I guess.

On a semi-related note, I just recently installed KDE1.1 on one of my retro-boxen. big_smile
IMO the default setup there needs a bunch of redundant icons removed from the panels to not be a visually-overwhelming mess as well... Just like I remember doing in 1999.
I even got a pre-insanity GNOME up and running, a fully configurable and completely nautilus-free experience if you will. It's kinda nice too.

#20 Re: Installation » It's not just Wondows: apparently we have a problem » 2021-07-23 07:12:37

zapper wrote:

I really hope they don't have to go that far down just to learn a simple lesson.

TBH I don't think anyone is learning anything, at least as far as systemd development is concerned.
The katamari must roll on after all, how else are the devs going to keep their KPIs up?

I mean, everyone likes shiny new shit (especially shareholders and corporate sponsors), and we can just patch the bugs later, right? roll

Hell, in this day and age you don't even need a competent sysadmin (or distro maintainer) to test and deploy patches, you just sign up to Kaseya for all your cloud-based update ransomware management goodness...

All of this reminds me of a rather old adage, IIRC it had some wise words regarding eggs and baskets.

#21 Re: Installation » It's not just Wondows: apparently we have a problem » 2021-07-22 04:47:46

andyprough wrote:

Moral of the story - don't give rogue users direct access to your system.

...And if you must give untrusted users a shell, at least put sane limits on the system resources they can consume. There aren't many legitimate reasons an untrusted user process needs 5GB of RAM and a million inodes.


Dutch_Master wrote:

systemd

Funny you should mention that, as there's an example of the inevitable consequences of running such a large codebase as PID1 linked in that same Reg article.

Remember how us old-school *nix nerds said PID1 should be as simple as possible, since a crash there will bring the whole system down?

In some 20+ years I have never seen nor heard tell of an unprivileged process crashing sysv init, yet here we are again with systemd.
This one was at least patched quickly, but the core design fault isn't going away - on the contrary, systemd is getting fatter with every release and the potential attack surface just keeps on growing.

#22 Re: Off-topic » [SOLVED] Anyone with a 386 willing to satisfy a curiosity for me? » 2021-07-19 07:46:55

Here ya go. As I suspected the multiplier jumpers on this weird-ass IBM board do nothing at all, so 66 & 100MHz (in that order below) it will have to be.

                                    Results
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Test                                Seconds
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Floating Point Math                 4.015625 

 Integer Math                        4.1171875 

 Math IF/ELSE Logic                  3.8984375 

 String IF/ELSE Logic                3.3046875 

 String Select Case Logic            3.234375 

 Integer Array Sort                  3.1328125 

 Seq. Print Rate                     .8828125 

 Seq. Character Fill Rate            .65625 

 Rnd. Character Fill Rate            1.1015625 

 Rnd. Character FR, Rnd. Color       1.53125 

 Seq. Pixel Fill Rate                1.2109375 

 Seq. Pixel FR, Rnd. Color           6.703125 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total Time: 33.7890625 
                                    Results
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Test                                Seconds
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Floating Point Math                 2.90625 

 Integer Math                        2.96875 

 Math IF/ELSE Logic                  2.6953125 

 String IF/ELSE Logic                2.3046875 

 String Select Case Logic            2.3046875 

 Integer Array Sort                  2.140625 

 Seq. Print Rate                     .765625 

 Seq. Character Fill Rate            .5 

 Rnd. Character Fill Rate            .7734375 

 Rnd. Character FR, Rnd. Color       .9765625 

 Seq. Pixel Fill Rate                .875 

 Seq. Pixel FR, Rnd. Color           4.671875 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total Time: 23.8828125 

Not quite what I'd expect given the difference in clock, but it is what it is.

#23 Re: Devuan » Windows 11 will _enforce_ Secure Boot » 2021-07-18 13:41:18

blackhole wrote:

If you search the web for the advantages of UEFI, you will find a lot of hot air about a GUI using a mouse and of course "security". That latter claim is insane.

...And so is the former. Using a mouse in BIOS setup is a nightmare, and the very first thing I look for is an "advanced" or "classic" mode that is navigable with the keyboard.

blackhole wrote:

UEFI increases attack surfaces and introduces vectors which weren't there in legacy BIOS. For example: remote management / networked capability....

Don't forget auto-reinstalling the horrific ad-filled motherboard manufacturers shovelware. ASUS "Armoury Crate" springs to mind there, that thing is pretty much the modern take on a boot-sector virus.

#24 Re: Off-topic » [SOLVED] Anyone with a 386 willing to satisfy a curiosity for me? » 2021-07-18 07:09:53

I haven't forgotten about you Tatwi, I've just been a little distracted fighting the newfangled udev initrd madness in Debian Etch.
Now that I've given up and moved on to something far more appropriate (Slackware big_smile), yours is back on the agenda. Restoring DOS partition over FTP now, so it might even be... Soon(TM).

#25 Re: Devuan » Windows 11 will _enforce_ Secure Boot » 2021-07-16 11:31:36

zapper wrote:

some software that is being developed by people for linux, is meant to break freedom and force adoption by breaking backwards compatibility.  FSF/GNU doesn't seem to understand this is a huge threat

Of course it is. Just follow the money-trail, and you'll find the usual suspects with the usual motivations.
As for the FSF, it's kind of outside their mandate... And personally I don't think they have the balls for it.
Maybe we'll see a bigger, meaner brother to the anti-tivoization clause in the GPL one day, but I suspect such would be too much of a threat-to-revenue (again, the usual suspects are funding many projects) for anyone to actually use it. Even Linus rejected GPL3 over that one.



blackhole wrote:

While we're talking "beliefs" I have the firm conviction that the new Microsoft is far more dangerous to free software than the old.

Ahh, so somebody else sees this for what it is. Woot. tongue
Here I was thinking I was the only one with a feeling of creeping dread over the whole "Micro$oft/Google/Oracle etc. etc. loves Linux" thing... It smelled oh-so-fishy from day one, and IME leopards don't often change their spots so radically, least of all when there's fresh meat to be had.

Microsoft is Microsoft, and they're still in it for the money, nothing else. If making the last wild GNU bend over and get their kernel image signed waters the money-tree, that's what they'll do. Who's gonna stop them?

What irks me most is the number of people I know (some of them skilled and well-paid devs) who think WSL and all it's accompanying "embrace" bollocks is pure awesome sauce.
So many people drinking the convenience koolaid, and nobody asks why it's there in the first place. Dude, it's bait roll

blackhole wrote:

The root of of this evil is unfettered, bottomless greed and a super rich elite controlling 99% of the worlds wealth. Solve that and we can talk about details such as open hardware .

Yeah, that and 99% of the worlds other problems too.

I'm not anti-capitalist mind, but this has gone far too far for far too long, and the rot is deep. Personally I expect it'd take an apocalypse-level event (or that mass-uprising that'll never happen because everyone is so damn apathetic) to change it, at least in the "developed" world.
Hey, who knows, maybe this apocalypse-level anthropomorphic climate change thing we seem so hell bent on courting will do the trick?


I'm kinda blowing some of the dust off my old-tech low-level x86 foo at the moment, maybe It'll even come to hacking my BIOS and burning 'proms again to get around secure broken boot. That'd be proper full-circle that would. big_smile

Board footer

Forum Software