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#1 2018-04-13 09:13:01

Fernando Negro
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 2018-04-08
Posts: 31  

What proprietary software does Devuan install by default?

I recently found out that, instead of behaving like Debian's - that only installs proprietary firmware on your computer if you decide to add it yourself to the installation - Devuan's installer (1) contains proprietary firmware in it, and (2) leaves the "contrib" and "non-free" repositories activated, after the installation, supposedly or reportedly because of some "bug".

(https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=8292#p8292)

So, having I noticed that the (serious) concern for not including any proprietary software by default, that Debian has, has not passed on to Devuan... I would like to know the following.

1) Is Wi-Fi proprietary firmware the only non-free thing that was added by Devuan to the original Debian installer?

2) Is Devuan's kernel (Linux) also rid of any proprietary firmware, just like Debian's?

3) Is there any other proprietary firmware or software that Devuan installs by default?

Last edited by Fernando Negro (2018-04-15 12:43:22)


Have no concerns with using proprietary software. Enjoy the "love" from some of this forum's administrators. And, above all, pay no attention to the fact that Dyne.org receives money from the European Commission to fulfil the latter's political projects.

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#2 2018-04-13 13:24:16

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 927  

Re: What proprietary software does Devuan install by default?

1) You can mount an installer iso and look in /firmware to see what packages are there. I think it's just wireless firmware so people who only have wireless can install.

2) There is no devuan kernel. It's the debian kernel, unchanged.

3.) What proprietary software was installed on your system? I don't get any in my installs unless I tell the installer to use my wireless interface.
You can run the following command to check:

dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Package}\t${Section}\n' |grep -e non-free -e contrib

or

    aptitude search ~i~s"non-free~|contrib"
or
    aptitude search ~i~snon-free ~i~scontrib

or else install vrms and run it.

2) (The first "2"): non-free in sources.list is a bug that has been fixed. You can check that at git.devuan.org if you need to confirm it.

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#3 2018-04-13 14:00:18

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 144  

Re: What proprietary software does Devuan install by default?

Mine show this on a ascii openbox system i am using as an everyday driver.

~$ dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Package}\t${Section}\n' |grep -e non-free -e contrib
firmware-brcm80211	non-free/kernel
firmware-realtek	non-free/kernel
ttf-mscorefonts-installer	contrib/fonts

The ms fonts are there only because i want to try them out against other gnu fonts. I think in some circumstances the non free drivers for network capability are warranted, but i suppose that is not the issue here, this thread sounds very much like a repeat of another.

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#4 2018-04-14 13:05:22

GNUser
Member
Registered: 2017-03-16
Posts: 420  

Re: What proprietary software does Devuan install by default?

Easiest way to see all contrib and non-free packages installed on your computer. In terminal:
First run: sudo apt-get install vrms (vrms stands for "virtual Richard M. Stallman" smile)
Then run: vrms

This is what you want to see:

bruno@thinkpad:~$ vrms

No non-free or contrib packages installed on thinkpad!  rms would be proud.

If not all packages on your system are free (and 100% free is what you want), just uninstall all the dirt that vrms digs up.

Last edited by GNUser (2018-04-14 13:08:11)

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#5 2018-04-14 17:54:29

Fernando Negro
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 2018-04-08
Posts: 31  

Re: What proprietary software does Devuan install by default?

fsmithred and GNUser,

Thank you very much for all those commands (that I didn't know the existence of).

I wasn't able yet to successfully install any version of Devuan on my computer (I'm waiting for the next stable release, that should be as functional on my computer as Debian 9) - but, I've tested all those commands in Debian already, and they work very well.

(That's a great way, then, to clear any doubts as to what type of software one has had installed on his/her computer.)

Panopticon and everyone,

The issue here is to really (know how to) know: "What proprietary software does Devuan install by default?"

(My critique concerning the inclusion of this type of software, by default, has been left by me in/to another thread - and, I really just want to know here what I'm asking.)

And, concerning what I ask, nevertheless, I didn't get an exact answer...

I know, then, that Devuan installs some proprietary Wi-Fi firmware, when installing the OS itself. And, having I checked the "/firmware" directory in the "netinst.iso" installation image, I can see there other types of firmware also. But,

1) Is the firmware in this directory the only non-free software that the Devuan installer uses? (That is, are there any other non-free packages/software present in the installation media, in other directories?)

And, concerning the previous question...

2) Is the installation of this non-free type of software something that Devuan's installer can only do by using packages already included in the installation media itself?

3) Or, in a "Net Install" or other, if Devuan's installer wants, it can activate the "contrib" or "non-free" repositories and use those to download non-free software from the Internet (with this being the reason why these repositories are left activated, in the "sources.list", after the installation)?

4) Also, is the user always asked, or at least warned, about the installation of this type of non-free software?

5) And, is the non-free CPU microcode included in the installation media only run during the installation, or also installed on the computer?


Have no concerns with using proprietary software. Enjoy the "love" from some of this forum's administrators. And, above all, pay no attention to the fact that Dyne.org receives money from the European Commission to fulfil the latter's political projects.

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#6 2018-04-14 18:15:16

wdq
Member
Registered: 2018-03-15
Posts: 37  

Re: What proprietary software does Devuan install by default?

If you take a look into the sources.list you will see that on security updates is non-free by default and you can add contrib non-free and activate them or deactivate before any install just install the netinst with the base and then log in as root and nano /etc/apt/ sources.list and delete the non-free and apt-get update and install only free software or add contrib non-free and install whatever you whant pretty simple the repos are almost the same with debian ones just the systemd is banned

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#7 2018-04-14 20:15:37

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,339  

Re: What proprietary software does Devuan install by default?

Fernando Negro wrote:

Thank you very much for all those commands (that I didn't know the existence of).

I wasn't able yet to successfully install any version of Devuan on my computer (I'm waiting for the next stable release, that should be as functional on my computer as Debian 9) - but, I've tested all those commands in Debian already, and they work very well.

(That's a great way, then, to clear any doubts as to what type of software one has had installed on his/her computer.)

Self-verification should put your mind at ease.  In the meantime, please just take a deep breath and try not to let your imagination take you down paths that are stressful for you and waste all our time and energy.

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#8 2018-04-14 23:25:13

Fernando Negro
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 2018-04-08
Posts: 31  

Re: What proprietary software does Devuan install by default?

Hello, golinux.

The commands that fsmithred and GNUser told me about, are very good tools, indeed. But, unfortunately, they don't really solve my problem. (With this being the reason why I proceed to ask so many questions.)

I really am sorry if I'm being a PITA... But, the problem I see with this default inclusion of non-free software, is that it can violate people's security and also ethical principles or concerns - with that only being "solved" after those two things have already occurred.

And, to be more explicit, I can give you an example.

I have an old laptop that can use, on its Wi-Fi card for its "free" driver, either (1) an incomplete (but functional, and completely) free firmware, or (2) a complete proprietary firmware.

And, on a FSF-approved distro that I tried, that (incomplete, but functional) free firmware is the one that is installed, and I can use my laptop with no problems.

Let's say that the alternative proprietary Wi-Fi firmware (of which we don't know the source code) might be able to steal my Wi-Fi password and send it somewhere else on the Internet. And, let's say that Devuan installs such proprietary firmware without telling me anything about it, I naively think that it must have installed the free one instead, and I only discover what really happened at the end of the installation, after having used my Wi-Fi password to proceed with such installation...

If that proprietary Wi-Fi firmware is really capable of stealing my password, then it will already be too late.

As I've just said in another thread, in here (https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=8377#p8377) the problem I have with all non-free software, is that I see it all as potentially dangerous (ex: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/07/08/ … ox-profile).


Have no concerns with using proprietary software. Enjoy the "love" from some of this forum's administrators. And, above all, pay no attention to the fact that Dyne.org receives money from the European Commission to fulfil the latter's political projects.

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