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#1 2016-12-18 14:08:10

Vall
Member
Registered: 2016-12-09
Posts: 5

Any relation between Devuan and antiX/MX?

Hello folks,

Is there any relation between Devuan and the antiX distro (or its MX derivative, which I understand is a collaboration between antiX and the MEPIS project)?

I ask because I just found out about AntiX and MX, and it announces itself as "Debian 8.5 (jessie), but systemd-free!"[1].

Seems very similar to Devuan, which is why I ask this question.

Thanks in advance for any clarifications,
--
   Vall.

[1] http://antix.mepis.org/

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#2 2016-12-18 16:29:37

FOSSuser
Member
From: Surrey/Hants border UK
Registered: 2016-12-11
Posts: 167

Re: Any relation between Devuan and antiX/MX?

I've been using AntiX for several years now, they build their system free of systemd from the Debian base.
They have 3 versions, core, base, & full.
Core is the very basics for you to install what you want, but from memory, doesn't do wifi out of the box.
Base, which is my preferred version, gives you a Fluxbox desktop, with Firefox ESR & several useful programs ,out of the box.
Full, gives you a choice of window managers, IceWM by default, & everything you'd expect from a normal distro included.

MX, gives you a full XFCE experience, created by the AntiX developers & Mepis user base.

I used to use Debian, then #! (Crunchbang), before coming to AntiX, which is very stable & has a friendly forum.

AntiX did assess using Devuan as it's base, but stuck with Debian when it could be installed minus systemd.

Devuan is the product of ex Debian developers, who don't want any contamination from systemd, & that is why I'm here. smile

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#3 2017-07-03 15:07:19

bigbenaugust
Member
From: the 919
Registered: 2017-06-15
Posts: 5

Re: Any relation between Devuan and antiX/MX?

antiX didn't have a way to encrypt the disk from its installer, so I came to try devuan which uses debian-installer.

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#4 2017-07-03 15:49:08

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 653

Re: Any relation between Devuan and antiX/MX?

Vall wrote:

. . .I just found out about AntiX and MX, and it announces itself as "Debian 8.5 (jessie), but systemd-free!"[1].

Seems very similar to Devuan, which is why I ask this question.

When this thread was started, I didn't know much about the MX approach to 'systemd-free'.  Then I found this page on the MX wiki which says:

MX Linux ships with systemd present but disabled by default.

So systemd is is disabled as per Debian's instructions but it seems that all the underlying systemd dependencies remain intact which means that there is quite a big difference between what MX and Devuan are doing.  Not sure if antix goes further . . .

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#5 2017-07-04 09:12:18

FOSSuser
Member
From: Surrey/Hants border UK
Registered: 2016-12-11
Posts: 167

Re: Any relation between Devuan and antiX/MX?

Maybe this will help you see what is in AntiX.

$ uname -a
Linux hp-g62 4.4.10-antix.1-amd64-smp #2 SMP PREEMPT Thu Feb 23 15:28:54 EET 2017 x86_64 GNU/Linux

$ find / -name systemd* > sysd

$ cat sysd
/var/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-udevd.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-udev-trigger.service
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/systemd-udevd-control.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udev-trigger.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udev-settle.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd-control.socket
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/systemd
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd-control.socket.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd.service.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd.8.gz
/etc/systemd

So, not entirely systemd free.

Last edited by FOSSuser (2017-07-04 09:14:37)

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#6 2017-07-05 03:47:51

pekman
Member
From: /usr/bin/pekman
Registered: 2017-05-11
Posts: 51

Re: Any relation between Devuan and antiX/MX?

If Antix want to be completely free from the systemd, must use Devuan as basis and not Debian

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#7 2017-07-05 13:42:05

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 444

Re: Any relation between Devuan and antiX/MX?

Switching to a devuan base would not help antix avoid systemd. In fact, they have some key packages that have been purged of systemd deps that devuan does not have, such as  gvfs-daemons,  and in stretch/ascii there's xserver-xorg.

All those /lib/systemd/ files are from the udev package. They are in devuan, too.

root@devuan:/home/user# uname -a
Linux devuan 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.39-1+deb8u2 (2017-03-07) x86_64 GNU/Linux
root@devuan:/home/user# find / -name systemd*
/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udev-settle.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/systemd-udevd-control.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-udevd.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-udev-trigger.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd-control.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udev-trigger.service
/etc/systemd
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd-control.socket.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd.service.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket.8.gz
/var/lib/systemd

Try this one in antix and see what you get:

root@devuan:/home/user# dpkg -l | grep systemd
ii  libsystemd0:amd64                     215-17+deb8u6                        amd64        systemd utility library

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#8 2017-07-06 08:05:57

FOSSuser
Member
From: Surrey/Hants border UK
Registered: 2016-12-11
Posts: 167

Re: Any relation between Devuan and antiX/MX?

This is what shows up running that command.

keith@hp-g62:~
$ dpkg -l | grep systemd
ii  bsdutils                               1:2.25.2-6.0nosystemd1               amd64        basic utilities from 4.4BSD-Lite
ii  dbus                                   1.8.22-0+deb8u1.0nosystemd1          amd64        simple interprocess messaging system (daemon and utilities)
ii  dbus-x11                               1.8.22-0+deb8u1.0nosystemd1          amd64        simple interprocess messaging system (X11 deps)
ii  init                                   1.22+nosystemd1                      amd64        System-V-like init utilities - metapackage
ii  init-system-helpers                    1.22+nosystemd1                      all          helper tools for systemd
ii  libblkid1:amd64                        2.25.2-6.0nosystemd1                 amd64        block device id library
ii  libcolord2:amd64                       1.2.1-1.0nosystemd1                  amd64        system service to manage device colour profiles -- runtime
ii  libcups2:amd64                         1.7.5-11.0nosystemd1                 amd64        Common UNIX Printing System(tm) - Core library
ii  libdbus-1-3:amd64                      1.8.22-0+deb8u1.0nosystemd1          amd64        simple interprocess messaging system (library)
ii  libmount1:amd64                        2.25.2-6.0nosystemd1                 amd64        device mounting library
ii  libpolkit-agent-1-0:amd64              0.105-15~deb8u2.0nosystemd1          amd64        PolicyKit Authentication Agent API
ii  libpolkit-gobject-1-0:amd64            0.105-15~deb8u2.0nosystemd1          amd64        PolicyKit Authorization API
ii  libpulse0:amd64                        5.0-13.0nosystemd1                   amd64        PulseAudio client libraries
ii  libsmartcols1:amd64                    2.25.2-6.0nosystemd1                 amd64        smart column output alignment library
ii  libudisks2-0:amd64                     2.1.3-5.0nosystemd1                  amd64        GObject based library to access udisks2
ii  libupower-glib1:amd64                  0.99.1-really-0.9.23-2.0nosystemd1   amd64        abstraction for power management - shared library
ii  libuuid1:amd64                         2.25.2-6.0nosystemd1                 amd64        Universally Unique ID library
ii  mount                                  2.25.2-6.0nosystemd1                 amd64        Tools for mounting and manipulating filesystems
ii  udevil                                 0.4.4-1.0nosystemd1                  amd64        Alternative storage media interface
ii  udisks2                                2.1.3-5.0nosystemd1                  amd64        D-Bus service to access and manipulate storage devices
ii  upower                                 0.99.1-really-0.9.23-2.0nosystemd1   amd64        abstraction for power management
ii  util-linux                             2.25.2-6.0nosystemd1                 amd64        Miscellaneous system utilities
keith@hp-g62:~

Edit: Please note, I am not criticising, Antix is & has been my main O/S for several years, I haven't yet converted fully to Devuan but am trying it for comparison.

Last edited by FOSSuser (2017-07-06 08:11:21)

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#9 2017-07-07 19:04:07

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 444

Re: Any relation between Devuan and antiX/MX?

Well, that didn't come out the way I expected. I forgot about all the nosystemd packages. Those can be considered false positives. But it did show something I expected - absence of libsystemd0.

I'm glad we aren't the only ones doing this.

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