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#1 2020-07-30 15:45:01

Vernon
Member
Registered: 2020-07-19
Posts: 47  

New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

There are workarounds to Devuan systemd dependencies scattered around this board. It would be nice if they were all in one place so they could be easily found. I suggest a new forum category, Devuan systemd dependency workarounds which should only contain solutions to Devuan systemd dependencies.

When someone finds a solution to a Devuan systemd dependancy, the solution could be cross posted to  Devuan systemd dependency workarounds by the person who found the workaround or anyone else..

An example post would be as follows:

Subject: usbmuxd package used for Apple Iphone and Ipad

Workaround: As root, use text editor to replace contents of /lib/udev/rules.d/39-usbmuxd.rules with

# usbmuxd ("Apple Mobile Device" muxer listening on /var/run/usbmuxd)

# Forces iDevices to the last USB configuration and runs usbmuxd
ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="usb", OWNER="usbmux", ATTR{idVendor}=="05ac", ATTR{idProduct}=="12[9a][0-9a-f]", ENV{USBMUX_SUPPORTED}="1", ATTR{bConfigurationValue}!="$attr{bNumConfigurations}", ATTR{bConfigurationValue}="$attr{bNumConfigurations}", OWNER="usbmux", RUN+="/usr/sbin/usbmuxd -u -U usbmux"

# Exit usbmuxd when the last device is removed
ACTION=="remove", SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ENV{PRODUCT}=="5ac/12[9a][0-9a-f]/*", ENV{INTERFACE}=="255/*", RUN+="/usr/sbin/usbmuxd -x"

Similar posts could be made for pulseaudio and networkmanager at least.

I suggest that this category be moderated to reduce cruft. Any post not related to a  systemd workarounds gets moved to another category.

Comments welcome.

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#2 2020-07-31 02:52:31

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,997  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

Vernon wrote:

There are workarounds to Devuan systemd dependencies scattered around this board. It would be nice if they were all in one place so they could be easily found. I suggest a new forum category, Devuan systemd dependency workarounds which should only contain solutions to Devuan systemd dependencies.

Thanks for suggesting this.  Your proposal was discussed today at our weekly meet and we think it would be useful.  Problem is that we need a shorter name.  Suggestions welcome.
- Init Triage
- Regaining Control

Vernon wrote:

When someone finds a solution to a Devuan systemd dependency, the solution could be cross posted to  Devuan systemd dependency workarounds by the person who found the workaround or anyone else.  Similar posts could be made for pulseaudio and networkmanager at least.

Or threads/posts could just be moved.

Vernon wrote:

I suggest that this category be moderated to reduce cruft. Any post not related to a  systemd workarounds gets moved to another category.

Sometimes threads are moved or split but content is kept intact.  We have an aversion to rewriting history.  wink

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#3 2020-07-31 08:12:56

PedroReina
Member
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 2019-01-13
Posts: 129  
Website

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

golinux wrote:

Devuan systemd dependency workarounds ...  Suggestions welcome.

systemd workarounds

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#4 2020-07-31 10:53:16

GlennW
Member
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 22  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

Great idea, Love the iPhone stuff, so difficult to get any good info on access to these devices.

My first thought was calling it "FOSS", ...that could easily include all the pulse hints and guides as well.

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#5 2020-07-31 12:54:18

HevyDevy
Member
Registered: 2019-09-06
Posts: 301  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

Possible name?

Init Control or the short version just as a play on words, Initctl.


everyday is a beautiful day

eric the hobo

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#6 2020-07-31 14:36:16

Vernon
Member
Registered: 2020-07-19
Posts: 47  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

GlennW wrote:

Great idea, Love the iPhone stuff, so difficult to get any good info on access to these devices.

My first thought was calling it "FOSS", ...that could easily include all the pulse hints and guides as well.

Thanks!

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#7 2020-07-31 14:55:11

brocashelm
Member
Registered: 2020-06-29
Posts: 28  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

I vote in favor. That's the whole point of Devuan, and then some.

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#8 2020-07-31 15:46:44

Vernon
Member
Registered: 2020-07-19
Posts: 47  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

PedroReina wrote:

systemd workarounds

I like it. But I got to thinking, are there any Devuan specific workarounds that are not related to systemd? Maybe just Devuan Workarounds with a sticky explaining that this forum category is specifically for Devuan sytemd workarounds. All other problems and workarounds, which are also probably in Debian Buster, should be posted in the other Devuan forum categories.

My concern is that a new user may not know or care that Devuan uses sysvinit instead of sytemd and just wants to try Devuan because of the strong support that people like Head_on_a_Stick with Sid provide. They may not understand that systemd workarounds applies to their Devuan installation.

Any other thoughts or comments are welcome.

Last edited by Vernon (2020-07-31 15:47:44)

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#9 2020-07-31 17:57:47

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,997  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

Thanks for the ideas. Now let's go deeper . . .  IMO, "FOSS" is too general and philosophical. Also it's about more than systemd.  I see it being about unnecessary "complification", removal of working options and core structure just because.  What ever happened to "KISS" and "if it works, don't fix it".  Please keep trying.  We also will need a very short description of what the new category will encompass.

EDIT: Also FOSS is a non-starter because systemd passes the test technically if not in spirit.

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#10 2020-08-01 11:25:51

HevyDevy
Member
Registered: 2019-09-06
Posts: 301  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

Perhaps a sub category/forum of <index/Discuss> on the forum called Init Freedom ?

Last edited by HevyDevy (2020-08-01 11:26:55)


everyday is a beautiful day

eric the hobo

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#11 2020-08-01 12:11:28

nixer
Member
From: North Carolina, USA
Registered: 2016-11-30
Posts: 90  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

Just throwing an idea or two out, if you want it to refer to Devuan hacks

D-hacks

If you want it to refer to systemd hacks or workarounds,

d-hacks

IMHO, this does not deserve a capital "D"... (-;

Perhaps,

What ever happened to "KISS" and "if it works, don't fix it"

"KISS Hacking"
"Simple Hacks"

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#12 2020-08-01 12:57:59

catprints
Member
Registered: 2016-11-30
Posts: 138  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

workarounds


"The obstacle is the path."

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#13 2020-08-01 20:30:42

Marjorie
Member
From: Teignmouth, UK
Registered: 2019-06-09
Posts: 68  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

Init Freedom Hacks?

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#14 2020-08-01 21:09:07

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,997  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

Marjorie wrote:

Init Freedom Hacks?

Unfortunately, if we want to include other poettering elephants like pulseaudio for discussion, it can't be limited to init.  Maybe just "Freedom Hacks"?

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#15 2020-08-02 00:14:07

catprints
Member
Registered: 2016-11-30
Posts: 138  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

How about just "Triage"? (Rather than init triage)


"The obstacle is the path."

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#16 2020-08-02 02:43:30

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,997  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

catprints wrote:

How about just "Triage"? (Rather than init triage)

I thought of that too but IMO it is too general.  Perhaps it could be clarified in the forum description, something like this:

Triage
Explore workarounds to fix unwanted upstream decisions

Maybe that's getting closer?

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#17 2020-08-02 07:32:57

larsH
Member
Registered: 2020-05-05
Posts: 104  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

What about

"Devuan workaround wiki"

It could over time contain quite a lot of stuff. Systemd related. How to avoid unneeded services. Upgrade solutions. And many others.

Have a nice day
Lars H

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#18 2020-08-02 10:19:54

brocashelm
Member
Registered: 2020-06-29
Posts: 28  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

Rather than we continue going back and forth over the proposed naming, why not go with a generic one for now as a placeholder? That's the least of our worries. Having a centralized section for that use case is definitely a necessity.

I think the Devuan staff know what's best, and a huge plus is listening to the community. Let's lead by example with this new section.

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#19 2020-08-02 13:00:56

HevyDevy
Member
Registered: 2019-09-06
Posts: 301  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

brocashelm wrote:

Rather than we continue going back and forth over the proposed naming, why not go with a generic one for now as a placeholder? That's the least of our worries. Having a centralized section for that use case is definitely a necessity.

I think the Devuan staff know what's best, and a huge plus is listening to the community. Let's lead by example with this new section.

I dont see the need for any rush to create a section, unless you have urgent issues?  As the old saying goes "proper preparation prevents piss poor performance" or the 6 p's! wink


everyday is a beautiful day

eric the hobo

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#20 2020-08-02 15:03:47

brocashelm
Member
Registered: 2020-06-29
Posts: 28  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

HevyDevy wrote:
brocashelm wrote:

Rather than we continue going back and forth over the proposed naming, why not go with a generic one for now as a placeholder? That's the least of our worries. Having a centralized section for that use case is definitely a necessity.

I think the Devuan staff know what's best, and a huge plus is listening to the community. Let's lead by example with this new section.

I dont see the need for any rush to create a section, unless you have urgent issues?  As the old saying goes "proper preparation prevents piss poor performance" or the 6 p's! wink

I don't see the need to hold yourself back over something as trivial as a name. Besides, there are already a couple of examples thrown in. Freedom Hacks sounds good.

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#21 2020-08-02 15:11:10

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,997  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

I personally would like to give an indication as to why those hacks are needed. There are plenty of hacks but this section will focus on those thrust upon us by upstream decisions.

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#22 2020-08-02 15:34:34

larsH
Member
Registered: 2020-05-05
Posts: 104  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

golinux wrote:

I personally would like to give an indication as to why those hacks are needed. There are plenty of hacks but this section will focus on those thrust upon us by upstream decisions.

Yes. This is my opinion as well. Devs and administrators should decide what i relevant and needed. The suggestion is to have a small goldmine of solutions and hacks of general interest and most common questions.

Have nice day
Lars H

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#23 2020-08-02 23:00:22

GlennW
Member
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 22  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

Devuan Freedom Hacks

With respect (I wouldn't be here if it weren't for you peeps), has ownership, free as in free beer and hacking, an inspirational heading drawing forum users to look inside.

regards Glenn

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#24 2020-08-02 23:57:38

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,997  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

GlennW . . . Devuan Freedom Hacks . . . Hmmm . . .  I like that but think that maybe It doesn't need "Devuan".  How about this for the index page?? 

Freedom Hacks
Explore workarounds to reverse/repair unwanted upstream decisions

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#25 2020-08-03 08:43:33

GlennW
Member
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 22  

Re: New Forum Category Suggestion - Devuan systemd dependency workarounds

Well, I like it. :-)
The description is accurate too.

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