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#1 2017-04-24 18:58:38

mckaygerhard
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
Website

SPANISH devuan install guide, instalacion en español

I started to contribute with a guide to install in spanish for dummyes (dummy are tonto in spanish literal translating) but future articles will be novice-less focused

http://venenuxmassenkoh.blogspot.com/20 … n-usb.html EDIT: update the url!

i'll post later a pdf file with photos and a special xperience with DELL hardware..

as i personal note, i dont like the devuan oficial site and git interface, its very slower and complicated, i suggest gogs due are more simple... and of course faster..

i added special notes about some mites :

LVM: this are an ancient system, its only usefully for special cases, previously, the discs were small, slow and expensive, to solve this mis LVM was used that allowed several small discs all united as a large one, but its advantage was that it could be done without turning off the machine due server disk was in mayority SCSI disc and also are hot-swap , this was VERY necessary in servers due services are better do not stop due are working 24/7, today this are not much used in middle hardware or little hardware, because the disks are very big and we have many options like the same command mount without going very there. SO THEN LVM ITS A OPTION ONLY FOR GREAT SERVERS.

SWAP: there's a famous frase: "double from the RAM", today totally false, in ancient times the memories were not only expensive, also were very smaller, so the virtual memory "swap" was required beyond "double the ram", but today, please we are talking about gigas. .. If you complain a lot of virtual memory are put several partitions interchange on several disks, and that is not this case of normal users installation. SO THEN A SWAP PARTITION OF 2G ARE ENOUG WHATEVER AMOUN OF RAM U HAVE INSTALLED.

SEPARATE /USR /HOME etc: nother same as the LVM.. as i said in ancient times, disk were spensive, today those disk are very big, so a partitioning of 3 parts are enoug with a "/" of root, a "/home" and the swap partition...

Last edited by mckaygerhard (2017-05-21 00:58:19)

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#2 2017-04-25 02:35:59

malinas
Member
Registered: 2017-02-21
Posts: 9

Re: SPANISH devuan install guide, instalacion en español

Hi,

I disagree about LVM. I think it's something you never knew you needed until it's too late:

  • With the proper file systems in use (some of them won't shrink...), you can resize your partitions on-the-fly, instead of having to reboot on a live CD

  • Whatever your file system is, you can create a snapshot for backup purposes

  • If you somehow run out of space, you can add a hard drive in your computer and extend your logical volume (and your partitions) transparently

Now it's story time. A few years ago, I only had a laptop, whose hard drive was failing. I needed to copy hundreds of GBs of data to a new HDD, but with a USB2 interface in the middle, it was going to take ages, and prevent me from working. But since I had LVM, I could actually do a live migration, and transfer my whole system onto the new HDD while still working, business as usual.

So I always install using LVM, just in case. The performance hit is, as far as I know, minimal, and there are great long-term advantages.

Also, from what's left of my Spanish, it seems that you're recommending to use only primary partitions because logical partitions are slower. I've never heard of that problem before. There should be no difference whatsoever.

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#3 2017-05-21 00:49:33

mckaygerhard
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
Website

Re: SPANISH devuan install guide, instalacion en español

> With the proper file systems in use (some of them won't shrink...), you can resize your partitions on-the-fly, instead of having to reboot on a live CD
you have right in this, but today, its more EASY for novice administrators buy a huge size disc and attach! in the jobs, administrators do not have that knowledge.. so go to te easies way and more simple, but more nasty of course... remenber that in the jobs, a novice administrator are more cheap that one xperimented!

>Whatever your file system is, you can create a snapshot for backup purposes
for that we have special software! and DELL servers are all hot-swap disc capable!

> If you somehow run out of space, you can add a hard drive in your computer and extend your logical volume (and your partitions) transparently
in this point you have absolutelly right! but i corroborate the performance in HD redering has  impact if i not have enough RAM!

The performance has a several impact that u cannot note in a more that one core CPU! neither if u have more than 2G of RAM..

its non-sense the too complicated solutions, the google formula its keep it simple...

about lovical vs primary: its a little miliseconds... but lets to teory: the mbr only has primary, so only has one indice! but if have logicals, has more that one indice! so must compute more ! its more complicated rather that this stupid "indices teory" but its the most easies example!

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#4 2017-05-21 01:19:13

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 654

Re: SPANISH devuan install guide, instalacion en español

@mckaygerhard . . . This is not email!  If you used the BBCode 'quote' tag, your post would be more readable.  Most needed tags are available at a click right above the input areas.  Thanks.   smile

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#5 2017-05-21 16:48:26

lazlo
Member
From: the Top Left of the Noosphere
Registered: 2017-05-15
Posts: 31

Re: SPANISH devuan install guide, instalacion en español

I thought I would give my opinion on the point you have made, @mckaygerhard.

LVM:

I didn't really use LVM at first because it seemed too complex and there were ways of partitioning disks that I thought were easier.  However I have come to love LVM over the years for a few reason I'll list here. 

1.) Virtualization:  I use VM's to test out new distros of linux on my desktop and on my home server to isolate the parts of my system that face the internet.  You can use LVM for the file system of a VM or LXC container and tools like libvirt, virtualbox, and LXD will use create and destroy file systems as needed for each VM.  The performance of a VM filesystem on LVM is much closer to native performance than a VM in an image file because there is less overhead.

2.)  Ease of Management:  Using LVM to layout my partitions allows me to have a 256GB SSD acting as a cache for my 3TB of spinning HDDs in my desktop.  The performance is wonderful compared to only HDDs and the cost is far less than 3TB of SSDs. 

On my home server I have 2 256GB SSDs and 3 1TB HDDs.  I used mdadm to create a RAID1 with SSDs (md0) and a RAID0 with the HDDs (md1).  I have LVM set up with a 2 VGs one on md0 (called ssd_r1) and one on md1 (called hdd_r0).  Then I put LVs for /, /boot, and /home on ssd_r1 with LVs for swap, /tmp, /var, /srv and all of the VM filesystems on hhd_r0. 

This means that the SSDs hold the data that I want to access quickly as well as the data doesn't change very often.  The HDDs get the data that changes often and involves a lot of writing to the filesystem.  This helps me prolong the life of my SSDs while still getting the most performance out of my hardware.  It isn't just theory.  It's a single, very practical solution to multiple problems.

Swap

On my desktop I have 12GB of RAM and 12.5GB of swap.  On my home server I have 32GB of RAM and 33GB of swap.  I have this much swap allocated for two reasons.  First is that in the very unlikely event of a crash the systems will be able to write out a full memory dump in case it needs to be analyzed.  Second is that I have a lot of RAM because I use a lot of of RAM.  Since my disks are so big, using about 1% of that space for swap is not a problem and it helps keep a lot of data in memory.

Separate Partitions

You are right, separating your data into more than one file system is not needed.  That does not mean it isn't a good idea though.  Anyone who has worked with computers long enough can tell you that any part of the data stored on a device can become corrupted.  This includes not just the data written as files, but the the filesystems and partitions too. 

Dividing your data across multiple partitions is a good way to guard against some of this failure.  It also means some of your partitions can be backed up, restored, mounted, unmounted, fsck-ed or more without disrupting the system as a whole.  Some users might not care about that at all.  Others won't care about it until it's too late to be of use.  Others among us have learned lessons the hard way over the years and care about it before we even start installing an OS.

The Unwritten Message

Please, forgive me if I get this part wrong.  It seems to me that the unwritten message in your post is that Devuan is a linux distro that is meant to be used by one type of user.  This is could not be farther from the truth.  All linux development is about choice.  All usage of linux is about choice.  Debian chose to ignore this truth and we are here because of that.  Devuan is about choice.

If you choose not to use the default options that is fine.  However please do not ask others to be have their choices limited.  One of the goals of Devuan is to be a distribution that other distros are built from.  This will only be possible if there are a great many ways to do things in Devuan.  More options = More Developers = More Choices = More Users!



lazlo

Last edited by lazlo (2017-05-21 17:06:51)

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#6 2017-06-06 16:59:09

mckaygerhard
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
Website

Re: SPANISH devuan install guide, instalacion en español

LVM:
I didn't really use LVM at first because it seemed too complex and there were ways of partitioning disks that I thought were easier.  However I have come to love LVM over the years for a few reason I'll list here.
1.) Virtualization:  I use VM's to test out new distros of linux on my desktop and on my home server to isolate the parts of my system that face the internet.  You can use LVM for the file system of a VM or LXC container and tools like libvirt, virtualbox, and LXD will use create and destroy file systems as needed for each VM.  The performance of a VM filesystem on LVM is much closer to native performance than a VM in an image file because there is less overhead.
2.)  Ease of Management:  Using LVM to layout my partitions allows me to have a 256GB SSD acting as a cache for my 3TB of spinning HDDs in my desktop.  The performance is wonderful compared to only HDDs and the cost is far less than 3TB of SSDs.
On my home server I have 2 256GB SSDs and 3 1TB HDDs.  I used mdadm to create a RAID1 with SSDs (md0) and a RAID0 with the HDDs (md1).  I have LVM set up with a 2 VGs one on md0 (called ssd_r1) and one on md1 (called hdd_r0).  Then I put LVs for /, /boot, and /home on ssd_r1 with LVs for swap, /tmp, /var, /srv and all of the VM filesystems on hhd_r0.
This means that the SSDs hold the data that I want to access quickly as well as the data doesn't change very often.  The HDDs get the data that changes often and involves a lot of writing to the filesystem.  This helps me prolong the life of my SSDs while still getting the most performance out of my hardware.  It isn't just theory.  It's a single, very practical solution to multiple problems.

As i said, u have right, but i write the guide to novice to medium users, administrators uses your suggestions for complex setups, the idea for SSD as cache access its great but too complex for quick-and-use guide.. nonsense for quick-and-use guide for light solutions... if i only want see movies and write gambas pieces of short codes.. i must spend too much time on setups, some countries does not have good hardware for complex setups.. that's why ms-guindows its so susessfully


Swap
On my desktop I have 12GB of RAM and 12.5GB of swap.  On my home server I have 32GB of RAM and 33GB of swap.  I have this much swap allocated for two reasons.  First is that in the very unlikely event of a crash the systems will be able to write out a full memory dump in case it needs to be analyzed.  Second is that I have a lot of RAM because I use a lot of of RAM.  Since my disks are so big, using about 1% of that space for swap is not a problem and it helps keep a lot of data in memory.

i not have time for memory dumps.. many people not have time for memory dumps, 99% of people not have time for memory dumps,, and if y have 32Gb of ram i setup only stable apps, for stable server... if a problem happened, vendor must solve me.. and in poor countries.. that behaviour could not be happened.. so space disk must be save...

Separate Partitions
You are right, separating your data into more than one file system is not needed.  That does not mean it isn't a good idea though.  Anyone who has worked with computers long enough can tell you that any part of the data stored on a device can become corrupted.  This includes not just the data written as files, but the the filesystems and partitions too.
Dividing your data across multiple partitions is a good way to guard against some of this failure.  It also means some of your partitions can be backed up, restored, mounted, unmounted, fsck-ed or more without disrupting the system as a whole.  Some users might not care about that at all.  Others won't care about it until it's too late to be of use.  Others among us have learned lessons the hard way over the years and care about it before we even start installing an OS.

of course.. here we both think the same

The Unwritten Message
Please, forgive me if I get this part wrong.  It seems to me that the unwritten message in your post is that Devuan is a linux distro that is meant to be used by one type of user.  This is could not be farther from the truth.  All linux development is about choice.  All usage of linux is about choice.  Debian chose to ignore this truth and we are here because of that.  Devuan is about choice.
If you choose not to use the default options that is fine.  However please do not ask others to be have their choices limited.  One of the goals of Devuan is to be a distribution that other distros are built from.  This will only be possible if there are a great many ways to do things in Devuan.  More options = More Developers = More Choices = More Users!

interesting u said that, recently seems Devuan are only a systemd-free only user moda! i have some problem choose different package and setups apart of default Devuan settings.. like the translation behaviour.. there-s many site for debuan packaging but poor activity.. and now its more coplicated if the packager does not have internet connection... that not seeems are freedom of choice..

in any case, i like more Devuan rather than Debian "for now".. its more faster and lighter.. now i made packages for like marilat does for Debian... due the debian/devuan default does not fit many users "choices"

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#7 2017-06-06 19:32:40

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 654

Re: SPANISH devuan install guide, instalacion en español

@mckaygerhard . . . have you ever considered writing posts in your native language and then passing it through a translator?  Some of what you write makes little sense.  Hopefully, we will have places for the international community to communicate soon.  smile

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#8 2017-06-12 15:31:25

mckaygerhard
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
Website

Re: SPANISH devuan install guide, instalacion en español

golinux wrote:

@mckaygerhard . . . have you ever considered writing posts in your native language and then passing it through a translator?  Some of what you write makes little sense

ok sorry, its a bad practice by me.. when i write fast make too many typos

i already write many post in english and spanish  well write of course.. without spelling errors

ODBC for gambas (distro agnostic) http://gambaswiki.org/wiki/doc/odbc

ODBC for Devuan complete setup:  http://qgqlochekone.blogspot.com/2017/0 … ow-to.html derived from friendsofdevuan wiki due seems there's no response from frieds of devuan team...

The most importan are setups specific cases for ASUS EeePC 2G, 4G and 8G, DELL R15 laptops and setups in SERVER DELL T110/T220

http://wiki.friendsofdevuan.org/doku.ph … tup_guides

Please take a short view and paste opinion .. They are good writed without misspellings

.  Hopefully, we will have places for the international community to communicate soon.  smile

the problem i can see here its constants changes.. this make place Devuan as a moda! the devuan administration must be serious!

Last edited by mckaygerhard (2017-06-12 15:33:16)

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#9 2017-06-12 19:59:54

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 444

Re: SPANISH devuan install guide, instalacion en español

You said it was read-only, so I guess you can't fix it.
http://wiki.friendsofdevuan.org/doku.ph … r15-laptop

Overall install status:

Devuan at install there's not any firmware so only the live flavor will work.. the other install media will let the system incommunicable.

That was a problem with beta2. It has been fixed. The installer isos will install wireless firmware unless you select expert install and say you don't want it. In the live isos, wireless firmware and firmware-linux-nonfree are installed and can be removed after installation by running a script.

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#10 2017-06-12 20:09:37

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 654

Re: SPANISH devuan install guide, instalacion en español

I should be able to make those corrections when I have the time.

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#11 2017-06-13 01:07:48

mckaygerhard
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
Website

Re: SPANISH devuan install guide, instalacion en español

yeah need some updates..  i'll made it but seems not in the friends of devuan wiki, now i setup a Devuan complete wiki in better place due seems the friend of devuan administrators are sleeping event stay alert and working..

well i hope the redaction are correct.. soon i'll will release a special devuan based iso like the K-M isos of Debian backports was ...and a wiki site with too lof of information..

by the way some thing take my atention:

isos will install wireless firmware unless you select expert install and say you don't want it. In the live isos, wireless firmware and firmware-linux-nonfree are installed and can be removed after installation by running a script.

Devuan has the "GNU&Linux" in ther name.. and comes in isos with firmwares? tha's not good..

i'm not free gnu avocate but if devuan promote firmware so easyle, the GNU part and freedown references are totaly hipocrit

i'm a non-free user, but i'm clarelly on what must be !

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#12 2017-06-13 05:05:40

pekman
Member
From: /usr/bin/pekman
Registered: 2017-05-11
Posts: 51

Re: SPANISH devuan install guide, instalacion en español

mckaygerhard wrote:

Devuan has the "GNU&Linux" in ther name.. and comes in isos with firmwares? tha's not good..

i'm not free gnu avocate but if devuan promote firmware so easyle, the GNU part and freedown references are totaly hipocrit

i'm a non-free user, but i'm clarelly on what must be !

Aplause for this, very cool question.

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