The officially official Devuan Forum!

You are not logged in.

#26 2018-10-26 11:48:10

Altoid
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 144  

Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support

Hello:

yeti wrote:

I hope there will be more cooperation between Debian and Devuan.

I seriously doubt that it's something the Debian crowd wants, just the opposite.
And as long as that Pottering fellow is at the helm, it will stay that way.

willbprogz227 wrote:

Man, this stinks.

Indeed it does.

As I have made clear in other posts, I'm not a developer.
I just have 20+ years of IT work, both at home and in my profession, with a hands on approach to software and hardware save programming anything but simple batch routines.

Systemd in Linux brings back memories of my transition from W3.11 to W95, with the end of *.ini files I understood to the undocumented workings of *the registry*, which took me years to get a minimal hold of as it was constantly changing and going deeper and deeper into the OS with every iteration and as a result, the end of any chance of knowing/controlling what was going on.

The registry in Windows OSs is a virus and I see systemd as nothing more than a registry class virus infecting Linux_land.

There are people both inside and outside IT that actually want this and are quite willing to pay shitloads of money for it to happen.

Call me paranoid but I don't see this MS cozying up to Linux in various ways lately as a coincidence: these things do not happen just because or on a senior manager's whim.
What I do see (YMMV) is systemd being a sort of convergence of Linux with Windows, which will not be good for Linux and may well be its undoing.

But I also think that the options virtue of the Linux world (which has been spread far too thinly, IMO) will one day be its undoing.

Like I wrote once, elsewhere:

OP wrote:

But until the Linux community 'as a whole' realises that a truly focused and effective joint effort is needed to take Linux into the desktop for 'everyone' (as opposed to the 'look Ma, I rolled a new distro today! attitude that has plagued it for as long as I can remember), this will continue to happen.

But it is something that seems to be, if not impossible to achieve, very far away and I fear that time may have already run out.

In very few years, all your digital activities will be owned and monitored by governments and corporations and there will be absolutely nothing to be done about it, as not having a digital activity will not really be an option because everything you do or want to do will depend on your having one.

Sorry for the rant.

Cheers,

A.

Offline

#27 2018-10-26 12:15:00

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 137  

Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support

Well said Altoid.

systemd is very much akin to ms registry, never really thought of it that way.

Offline

#28 2018-10-26 14:23:56

James1138
Member
Registered: 2018-09-27
Posts: 16  

Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support

If Devuan does fade into history and there is only Linux w/systemd (yuck)... how long would us that use Devuan now continue to see support from the general Debian community? What I mean to say is Ubuntu LTS is a average 3 years support... what is Debian average support?

I know next to nothing about systemd but... guess we may have to individually take our own steps to avoid "systemdAM-IT"...
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p … stallation
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p … stallation
https://appuals.com/remove-systemd-ubuntu-permanently/

Worried,
James
Indiana/USA

Offline

#29 2018-10-26 14:37:53

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 137  

Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support

James, to be optimistic i believe that devuan will find a way through this and continue init freedom.

Slackware has been around for a very long time and will continue to do so, Devuan seems to be heading in the same trajectory.

Offline

#30 2018-10-26 14:51:16

yeti
Member
Registered: 2017-02-23
Posts: 83  

Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support

James1138 wrote:

If Devuan does fade into history and there is only Linux w/systemd (yuck)...

...then maybe there already is a BSD with APT instead of PkgSrc/Ports or someone has proven the Hurd to be useable or the Plan9 developers finally have realised that with a different GUI replacing RIO Plan9 really could be the next major "Unix++".
;-)

We're not there yet.

Stay ommmMMMmmmPtimistic!

Last edited by yeti (2018-10-26 16:06:10)


"I have a natural instinct for science." — D.J. Trump
"Stay OmmmMMMmmmPtimistic!" — yeti
"Nobody is planning to roll out a Systemd coin miner botnet." — W. Ulbricht
"No Source — No Go!" — yeti

Offline

#31 2018-10-26 16:02:10

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,307  

Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support

I guess none of you are on the Devuan mail lists or IRC. Perhaps this is a wakeup call to get more involved . . . .  Devuan is not going anywhere.  Someone from Debian did reach out to us and Devuan devs are now cooperating and contributing to ensure sysvinit functionality in Debian.  Devuan devs are also working actively on runit and openrc.

Offline

#32 2018-10-26 16:11:37

yeti
Member
Registered: 2017-02-23
Posts: 83  

Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support

golinux wrote:

I guess none of you are on the Devuan mail lists or IRC.

Santa still hasn't delivered the 100hrs day. :-(
It is on my wishlist for decades.

golinux wrote:

Someone from Debian did reach out to us and Devuan devs are now cooperating and contributing to ensure sysvinit functionality in Debian.  Devuan devs are also working actively on runit and openrc.

Good to read.


"I have a natural instinct for science." — D.J. Trump
"Stay OmmmMMMmmmPtimistic!" — yeti
"Nobody is planning to roll out a Systemd coin miner botnet." — W. Ulbricht
"No Source — No Go!" — yeti

Offline

#33 2018-10-26 17:14:32

willbprogz227
Member
From: Beautiful Pacific Northwest US
Registered: 2018-09-06
Posts: 23  
Website

Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support

golinux wrote:

I guess none of you are on the Devuan mail lists or IRC.

I prefer the more modern replacement for these: teh forumz tongue

Into serious-mode though, Devuan is a great project and I hope it remains alive.  "Devuan: Everything great about Debian without the caustic, antagonistic init system (and with a friendly community)"


Blessed and forgiven! big_smile

Offline

#34 2018-10-26 18:53:34

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,307  

Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support

willbprogz227 wrote:
golinux wrote:

I guess none of you are on the Devuan mail lists or IRC.

I prefer the more modern replacement for these: the forumz tongue

Not trying to dis this wonderful forum but . . . that's a bit like getting details about a project from a youtube channel rather than reading the official FOIA documents.

willbprogz227 wrote:

Into serious-mode though, Devuan is a great project and I hope it remains alive.  "Devuan: Everything great about Debian without the caustic, antagonistic init system (and with a friendly community)"

Indeed!  big_smile

Offline

#35 2018-10-27 01:13:24

Ron
Member
Registered: 2018-04-22
Posts: 127  

Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support

golinux wrote:

I guess none of you are on the Devuan mail lists or IRC. Perhaps this is a wakeup call to get more involved . . . .  Devuan is not going anywhere.  Someone from Debian did reach out to us and Devuan devs are now cooperating and contributing to ensure sysvinit functionality in Debian.  Devuan devs are also working actively on runit and openrc.

Glad to hear this. I had been worried reading this thread, until I saw the above quoted post.

Offline

#36 2018-10-27 09:29:44

Debuser2018
Member
Registered: 2018-01-24
Posts: 28  

Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support

Thank you for all the work to keep us experience a systemd free simple Linux and userland with Devuan. Wish to see more Debian/Utnubu/antiX developers collaborate to sanitize Debian packages out of the systemd. I hope antiX developers at least will connect to Devuan now.

Slight OT: But, what kind of ridiculous reasons are they claiming in Debian mailing lists to enforce systemd? Is there someone putting a revolver on their back to enforce systemd? Yeah, most of us know.

Last edited by Debuser2018 (2018-10-27 09:31:28)

Offline

Board footer