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#26 Yesterday 16:45:26

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,048  

Re: The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct

yeti wrote:

This troll brand mark count does not need to be public to be useful for the moderators.
And this troll brand mark count should not be public because it biases the reader.

Didn't I just say that?  I totally agree.

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#27 Yesterday 16:47:52

cynwulf
Member
Registered: 2017-10-09
Posts: 144  

Re: The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct

golinux wrote:

That would depend on your definition of 'traditional manner'.  A troll's knee-jerk defense to any moderation or reason is to play the victim and it's a downward spiral of venom after that.

My point is that this seems like adopting a very defensive stance and that in itself attracts trouble.  Do you have more than one example of this?

You're saying to "trolls": "you're such a problem we're having to install sorts of shit..."

Which is precisely what drives trolls.

golinux wrote:

Disclaimer to those who may point a finger in my direction . . . this mod was not my idea but I'm not opposed to giving it a try.  I would however prefer that there be no public "shaming" involved that could incite undesirable results.  I do think that stats on users that are having a negative effect on this board are a useful metric for possible action..

I fail to see the value in the stats.

So if cliques "nominate" trolls what then?  As you're very active here, you must know what goes on anyway.  Leaving it to certain members to flag someone up, just seems like an open invitation for abuse.  You would surely be able to sniff out potential trouble by now.

Sadly there is no "firewall" solution for this and many of these solutions only serve to alienate decent members.

As I said, I'm against this kind of thing, against surveillance, hypocritical "tagging" or treating everyone like a potential problem, just because of the actions of a few.  There will always be personalities and those will clash and the tagging will go berserk in such cases.  For me it simply has no value.

Last edited by cynwulf (Yesterday 16:51:31)

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#28 Yesterday 17:34:20

Dutch_Master
Member
Registered: 2018-05-31
Posts: 14  

Re: The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct

Om further reflection I'm with cynwulf in this case. I run my own forum (nothing to do with OSS) and am a member of another, very large forum (100,000+ members, 1M+ messages, also nothing to do with OSS) which actually removed the 'negative' ratings people could give to posts for precisely the reason stated above: abuse by certain cliques. My own forum runs on phpBB (which doesn't have the ability to rate posts) and I've resisted the urge to upgrade it to a forum engine that does, even though I can see the merits of that, but I'm not willing to spend (much/any) time dealing with those abusing the ratings system.

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#29 Yesterday 18:48:27

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,048  

Re: The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct

cynwulf wrote:

I fail to see the value in the stats.

It would give the admins a sense of how users are reacting to questionable posts though as has been mentioned the numbers can be manipulated.  In the past, users have on occasion emailed me when they feel someone else on the board has crossed a line.  Perhaps public requests in Forum Feedback would be a better option to suggest a need for administrative action.  All I know is that there are times when action might be necessary.  We just need to figure out the best way to gauge when and what is appropriate.

Thankfully, this board has fewer issues than most because of the maturity of its members.

An another point . . . post ratings are not on our radar so rest easy on that.

And finally . . . the only cliques I have seen here are trolls banding together.

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#30 Yesterday 18:54:43

yeti
Member
Registered: 2017-02-23
Posts: 68  

Re: The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct

golinux wrote:
yeti wrote:

This troll brand mark count does not need to be public to be useful for the moderators.
And this troll brand mark count should not be public because it biases the reader.

Didn't I just say that?

I started typing before your message was there, wrote half an essay threw it away and boiled it down to the short 2 sentences. That took more then 10 minutes...

golinux wrote:

I totally agree.

;-)


"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." — Janet Reno
"Isch ahbe fertisch!" — Sisyphos
"Logic, my dear Zoe, merely enables one to be wrong with authority." — The 2nd Doctor
"No Source — No Go!" — yeti.

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#31 Yesterday 19:32:23

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,048  

Re: The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct

yeti wrote:

I started typing before your message was there, wrote half an essay threw it away and boiled it down to the short 2 sentences.

Yeah, I've done that more than a few times.  smile

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#32 Yesterday 20:38:51

cynwulf
Member
Registered: 2017-10-09
Posts: 144  

Re: The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct

golinux wrote:

It would give the admins a sense of how users are reacting to questionable posts though as has been mentioned the numbers can be manipulated.

It will give you a sense that X doesn't get on with Y.  Not much else.

golinux wrote:

In the past, users have on occasion emailed me when they feel someone else on the board has crossed a line.

As a forum admin, you will get this.  In general if a member emails you about some other member "crossing the line", it's coming from someone with an agenda.

golinux wrote:

Perhaps public requests in Forum Feedback would be a better option to suggest a need for administrative action.  All I know is that there are times when action might be necessary.  We just need to figure out the best way to gauge when and what is appropriate.

Precisely, that's for you to gauge - not some forum extension...

golinux wrote:

Thankfully, this board has fewer issues than most because of the maturity of its members.

Which is exactly why you don't need this autonomous forum extension...

golinux wrote:

And finally . . . the only cliques I have seen here are trolls banding together.

I haven't seen any bands of trolls here?

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#33 Yesterday 20:59:35

devuser
Member
Registered: 2018-04-30
Posts: 116  

Re: The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct

Kinda funny how such a mostly cosmetic change draws so much attention big_smile

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#34 Yesterday 21:14:47

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,048  

Re: The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct

cynwulf wrote:
golinux wrote:

In the past, users have on occasion emailed me when they feel someone else on the board has crossed a line.

As a forum admin, you will get this.  In general if a member emails you about some other member "crossing the line", it's coming from someone with an agenda.

I disagree.  The emails I have gotten were from well-established, respected contributors to this forum whose only 'agenda' was for the forum to be free of disruption.

The discussion here seems to be pretty much against implementing the troll extension to be publicly viewable.   I'm not opposed to a trial run with hidden stats.  In any case it would be useful for some to be able to ignore an annoying user.

cynwulf wrote:
golinux wrote:

And finally . . . the only cliques I have seen here are trolls banding together.

I haven't seen any bands of trolls here?

Then you haven't been paying attention.  Or maybe it's just semantics . . .

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#35 Yesterday 21:24:20

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 736  

Re: The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct

golinux wrote:

  Perhaps public requests in Forum Feedback would be a better option to suggest a need for administrative action.

There's already a Report button at the bottom of each post, but it looks like it hardly ever gets used. 90% of the reports are for spam, and we don't even get those anymore. (Thanks, Ralph!) Maybe we just need to point out that button's existence in the top post. Or maybe we don't - this is a pretty calm board, even when it heats up.

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#36 Yesterday 21:26:16

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,048  

Re: The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct

The report button is only visible to admins.  A post in forum feedback would be public.  That's a big difference in transparency.

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#37 Yesterday 22:49:53

ralph.ronnquist
Administrator
From: Clifton Hill, Victoria, AUS
Registered: 2016-11-30
Posts: 204  

Re: The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct

If I understand it right, the basic tenet against a published Troll Count is on the line that it's more likely to be (mis-) used by a bunch of dickheads banding together to wield dickheadary against some normal adult member, than that it's used by the normal adult members as (weak) indicator towards the censoring of a dickhead.

Well, perhaps. I'll leave my head where it is for the moment.

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#38 Yesterday 22:57:54

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,048  

Re: The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct

@ralph.ronnquist . . . Your head is a very nice head.  Anarchists always manage to turn things upside down and make it someone else's fault.  wink

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