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#1 2016-12-15 15:56:19

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 93

LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

I have been running Devuan Ascii on my laptop for some time now and with the announcement of Jessie beta2 I thought that it was time to upgrade my desktop machine from Debian Jessie to
Devuan Jessie.

I followed the initial steps from
https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgra … -to-Devuan
which do seem consistant with
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=20

Along with "main" I have also included "contrib non-free" in sources.list, since that is what I had under Debian.

The apt-get dist-upgrade went smoothly and things seem ok. I like LXDE but also had XFCE installed as I thought that there was the odd item from XFCE which I used. I didn't bother to install XFCE and Slim as they were already there.

I gave the command "apt-get purge systemd-shim libsystemd0" but read the output before typing "Y". This seemed to want to remove a lot of stuff, including LXDE, XFCE, lightdm and Slim as well as some applications, I noticed Bluefish in the list and several gnome utilities. I therefore typed "N" to the purge command.

This machine is still working pretty well, so I thought that I would ask for advice before attempting to break it further! It is still running lightdm rather than Slim. While I am not surprised to see systemd-udev in dmesg output, I suspect that systemd-logind should not be there and it also produces a couple of error messages, of the form :-
"[   12.985009] systemd-logind[2790]: Failed to start user service: Unknown unit: user@108.service".

I think that I read somewhere that I should let the apt-get purge command remove XFCE etc and then re-install them. Is this correct? Is this to force the installation of packages from the Devuan repositories with systemd dependencies removed? Would the purge command remove all of the associated configuration files from the packages I do actually want, including LXDE?

Geoff

(There is a summary of these posts in message number 38 on page 2
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=430#p430
)

Last edited by Geoff 42 (2017-01-04 14:33:53)

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#2 2016-12-15 19:40:56

FOSSuser
Member
From: Surrey/Hants border UK
Registered: 2016-12-11
Posts: 167

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

All I can say is that when you use 'purge' you zap all configs as well as the apps, I think you should just use 'remove', but wait for a proper explanation from someone who knows the correct proceedure. smile

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#3 2016-12-15 20:40:18

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 513

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

I think the problem is task-xfce-desktop or some other metapackage that depends on a bunch of things, even if some of the components don't require all those things. For example, a normal xfce desktop will include gvfs and gvfs-daemons. The latter requires libsystemd0, but the rest of xfce does not. If all those items were installed under a metapackage, then removing any part will remove them all.

You might get away with just 'apt-get remove task-xfce-desktop'. But things might get marked for autoremoval. The ones you want to keep can be installed (or reinstalled?) manually, before they are removed. (it's either apt-get install <package> or apt-get --reinstall install <package>). The package will be marked as manually installed, and it wil bel un-marked for autoremoval.

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#4 2016-12-16 10:14:24

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 93

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

I hadn't got task-xfce-desktop installed, although  did have xfce4 and xfce4-session. I have removed them and I am still up and running! An autoremove then went on to remove some other related items, including xfdesktop4 and thunar.

I have tried removing task-lxde-desktop followed by apt-get --reinstall install lxde, but then an apt-get purge systemd-shim libsystemd0 would still remove lxde as well as slim, if I were to let it proceed.

Geoff

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#5 2016-12-16 10:53:54

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 93

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

I have just been having a look through the dependencies in LXDE. I notice that lxsession has a dependency on :-

consolekit | upower (<0.99) | systemd

So I suspect that that is where the problems lies. I am unclear on how some of these things like consolekit fit in, or even what they do! I notice that I do have consolekit installed as well as upower 1:0.9.23-2+devuan1.2

I also notice that lxsession is only generally only suggested or recommended, apart from lxde-common which does have it as a depends.

I have noticed some documentation on minimalism, using openbox as the window manager. I wonder whether I could start with this and then add on a few bits like lxpanel.

Geoff

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#6 2016-12-16 10:57:54

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 513

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

lxde is another metapackage. Same with xfce4. You can install xfce4-session, xfdesktop4 and thunar without pulling in libsystemd0. Also, remove lxde and install the parts you want. Here's the list of packages with lxde in the name.

aptitude search lxde
p   education-desktop-lxde                                - Debian Edu LXDE desktop applications                           
p   live-image-lxde-desktop                               - Live System Image Components (LXDE desktop)                    
p   live-task-lxde                                        - Live environment support for Lxde                              
p   lxde                                                  - Metapackage for LXDE                                           
p   lxde-common                                           - LXDE common configuration files                                
p   lxde-core                                             - Metapackage for the LXDE core                                  
i   lxde-icon-theme                                       - LXDE standard icon theme                                       
v   lxde-session                                          -                                                                
v   lxde-settings-daemon                                  -                                                                
p   openbox-lxde-session                                  - LXDE session manager and configuration files                   
p   task-lxde-desktop                                     - LXDE 

You can check what will be installed along with any package by adding the -s option. (apt-get -s install <packages> or aptitude -s install <packages>)

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#7 2016-12-16 16:08:38

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 93

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

Thank you for the advice. In the end, after removing lxde and just using xfce I then had a cup of tea and decided to go for it!

I decided to actually follow Chillfan's instructions to the end, more or less. Having logged in as root at the console, I carried out the "apt-get purge systemd-shim libsystemd0"
and let it do it. This I followed with an autoremove, which got rid of a large amount of stuff. After a reboot, I went back and did a "apt-get install lxde" and "apt-get install slim"
and started slim with "/etc/init.d/slim start". Slim ran and I was able to log in and my usual lxde session appeared. Running "dmesg|grep systemd" only finds systemd-udevd,
so I think that counts as a result! I was able to run up LibreOffice Base and get it to connect to my PostgreSql database, although the fonts didn't look very good. This is a minor problem which I can investigate later.

Geoff

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#8 2016-12-18 14:38:13

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 93

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

I have had a little look at LibreOffice, as some of it was removed during the big autoremove after purging systemd. I was able to check the details in /var/log/apt/history.log.

As I mentioned above, LibreOffice Base was still installed and working. However, parts that had been removed included, Calc, Impress and Draw. I checked what would be installed with the meta-package libreoffice and nothing appeared which looked too troubling, there being some fonts and a few items related to "coinor". It seems that coinor is some mathematical software. I don't know why these items were removed, but simply installing "libreoffice" has restored the functionality.

The look of the fonts used by the interface still looks a bit sub-standard. I have added in some extra fonts via ttf-mscorefonts-installer as well as caladea and carlito, although I think they are only used for the content rather than the interface. Since I no longer have xfce4 installed, I wonder whether that could affect the interface of LibreOffice. By "the interface" I am referring to File Edit ... Help and the pull down menus, which on the other software which I have running still looks good.

Geoff

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#9 2016-12-18 15:23:43

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 727

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

I don't use Libre Office often.  When I build a desktop from scratch I only install the Writer element.  But Devuan includes the whole thing.  I should  probably nuke it and just install the part that I need.  Maybe some rainy day . . .

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#10 2016-12-18 17:23:44

chillfan
Member
Registered: 2016-12-01
Posts: 38

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

I'm not sure if lxde can be fully systemd free on Devuan yet, but there are some things you can try.

systemd looks to be an optional dependency on lxsession, with the other choices being consolekit or upower. Since you have one of those installed (systemd) apt will remove lxsession unless one of the others are installed, you need at least one of them to keep lxsession installed.

You could try

apt-get install upower

or

apt-get install consolekit

Then

apt-get purge systemd systemd-shim libsystemd0

Try purging systemd and systemd-shim separately as well, especially these don't have a great deal of things depending on them, but libsystemd0 has about 60 packages depending on it. Also, avoid using backports for now unless using these instructions.

apt-get purge systemd systemd-shim

One cause of problems with the lxde package also looks to be recommended packages which have a dependency on libsystemd0. I'd say remove those recommends and try installing things you really want on a case by-case basis.

apt-cache depends lxde | grep Recommends

Then make a list and purge those

apt-get purge pkg1 pkg2 etc

particularly you should remove

network-manager-gnome
gnome-system-tools
gnome-disk-utility
gnome-mplayer
transmission-gtk

and maybe the gvfs packages, depending on your setup and wether or not you're willing to tolerate libsystemd0.

Personally I would prefer to start with purging systemd systemd-shim libsystemd0, then install lxde again with

apt-get install lxde upower --no-install-recommends

Last edited by chillfan (2016-12-18 17:57:31)

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#11 2016-12-19 15:23:01

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 93

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

Thank you for your detailed reply.

I believe that I had followed your suggestions more or less. Purging systemd and libsystemd0 followed by an autoremove had removed lxde as well as xfce and gvfs as well as several gnome utilities. Re-installing lxde and slim pulled in consolekit and I have since re-installed upower. I have checked for the recommends, which you mention and none of them was present except gnome-mplayer, which I have now purged. As mentioned above gvfs is absent.

In browsing around for anything to do with systemd I only found sysvinit installed. At first I thought that this sounded good, until I realised that it is a transitional package for systemd. I have now purged that. I was a bit confused to not find systemd itself as un-installed, until I realised that the repository is Devuan's and therefore systemd is not there ;-) It does mean though that "apt-get purge systemd" does not work!

It seems to me that lxde is working happily without systemd or libsystemd0. The only problems which I am currently aware of are :-

Temporary mounting of usb devices such as camera/phone. I assume that used to be handled by gvfs and I have started to look at Thunar, which I think I saw mentioned in this context.

There is no GUI method to shutdown the system as lxde only allows logout/lock and slim does not have any options to shutdown. I have a quick kludge with xmessage and sudo.

There is an error pop-up on login :-
GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown:
The name org.desktop.PolicyKit1 was not provided by any .service files

The poor fonts on the LibreOffice interface. This is not a major problem.

Geoff

Last edited by Geoff 42 (2016-12-19 15:27:10)

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#12 2016-12-19 15:54:42

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 727

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

Geoff 42 wrote:

Temporary mounting of usb devices such as camera/phone. I assume that used to be handled by gvfs and I have started to look at Thunar, which I think I saw mentioned in this context.

Do you have upower installed? Read through this for suggestions.  Note that I have gvfs installed also.   

Geoff 42 wrote:

There is no GUI method to shutdown the system as lxde only allows logout/lock and slim does not have any options to shutdown. I have a quick kludge with xmessage and sudo.
Geoff

'man slim' offers suggestions for alternate actions.  Note that I have not tried any of them. YMMV.

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#13 2016-12-19 18:08:12

FOSSuser
Member
From: Surrey/Hants border UK
Registered: 2016-12-11
Posts: 167

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

If you don't already know.

From a terminal, or a script linked to your menu, you should be able to use shutdown or poweroff.

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#14 2016-12-19 18:29:46

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 376

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

Geoff 42 wrote:

The poor fonts on the LibreOffice interface. This is not a major problem.

Hi Geoff 42. Font rendering is one of my pet peeves. wink

I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but it sounds as though the only font rendering problem you are experiencing is with LibreOffice? If that's the case, I'm not sure if this will help...but it won't hurt to try if you're willing.

Following is the font configuration file that I use in Openbox...it does wonders at making the fonts look really nice system-wide. It also worked on my past Arch Openbox installs without having to download and install a bunch of packages that Arch and its users recommend to help with font rendering (if you're familiar with that).  It may be worth a try to see if it "might" help. Also, don't let the font names that are in the file worry you...it works with all fonts.

I will assume your file manager is PCManFM since you're using LXDE, so these instructions are applicable to that.

1. Open your file manager as root and go to /etc/fonts
2. In that open folder, right click and create a new empty file
3. Name the file local.conf
4. Copy and paste the code below into the empty file and save it.

It's been a while, so I can't remember if just logging out and back in will cause it to take effect...or if a computer restart is necessary. Sorry.

Here it is...good luck. smile

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<fontconfig>
    <match target="font">
        <edit mode="assign" name="hinting" >
            <bool>true</bool>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" >
            <bool>true</bool>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle" >
            <const>hintslight</const>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="assign" name="rgba" >
            <const>rgb</const>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="assign" name="antialias" >
            <bool>true</bool>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="assign" name="lcdfilter">
            <const>lcddefault</const>
        </edit>
    </match>

<!-- Set preferred serif, sans serif, and monospace fonts. -->
    <alias>
        <family>serif</family>
        <prefer>
            <family>Droid Serif</family>
        </prefer>
    </alias>
    <alias>
        <family>sans-serif</family>
        <prefer>
            <family>Droid Sans</family>
        </prefer>
    </alias>
    <alias>
        <family>sans</family>
        <prefer>
            <family>Droid Sans</family>
        </prefer>
    </alias>
    <alias>
        <family>monospace</family>
        <prefer>
            <family>Droid Sans Mono</family>
        </prefer>
    </alias>
    <alias>
        <family>mono</family>
        <prefer>
            <family>Droid Sans Mono</family>
        </prefer>
    </alias>

</fontconfig>

I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#15 2016-12-20 10:13:44

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 93

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

MiyoLinux wrote:

I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but it sounds as though the only font rendering problem you are experiencing is with LibreOffice? If that's the case, I'm not sure if this will help...but it won't hurt to try if you're willing.

Thank you for your suggestion. I have created the local.conf and it does indeed seem to make a difference. If I understand it, the first part is turning on anti-aliasing, and as far as I can see, it is improving the quality of the letters, the letter "D" does appear to be much smoother. The new file does however make the font smaller in LibreOffice. I then restarted my browser and that too has a smaller font in the interface. Could this be that the Droid font that you are specifying does appear smaller that whatever it is that I am currently using?

Geoff

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#16 2016-12-20 10:51:03

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 93

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

golinux wrote:

Do you have upower installed? Read through this for suggestions.

Yes I have "upower 1:0.9.23-2+devuan1.2" installed. I notice from the reference, which you give, that someone reports that installing upower made the shutdown options appear with logout. I also notice that lxsession depends on "consolekit | upower (<0.99) | systemd". I am not too clear on version numbers, but does that mean that lxsession will not use the version of upower that I have installed?

Geoff

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#17 2016-12-20 14:26:40

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 376

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

Geoff 42 wrote:

Thank you for your suggestion. I have created the local.conf and it does indeed seem to make a difference. If I understand it, the first part is turning on anti-aliasing, and as far as I can see, it is improving the quality of the letters, the letter "D" does appear to be much smoother. The new file does however make the font smaller in LibreOffice. I then restarted my browser and that too has a smaller font in the interface. Could this be that the Droid font that you are specifying does appear smaller that whatever it is that I am currently using?

Geoff

This made me think back...

Sorry for the strange behavior it caused...it's been a while since I used LXDE, and I remembered that when I did, I used a different font configuration file for it. I finally found it, and it's almost identical to the top half of the one I posted. Perhaps that second half of the file acts differently on LXDE as opposed to Openbox...not sure why though. It doesn't have the effects you've described on Openbox.

So, after comparing the two files, you can remove everything between </match> and </fontconfig> so that you're left with...

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<fontconfig>
    <match target="font">
        <edit mode="assign" name="hinting" >
            <bool>true</bool>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" >
            <bool>true</bool>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle" >
            <const>hintslight</const>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="assign" name="rgba" >
            <const>rgb</const>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="assign" name="antialias" >
            <bool>true</bool>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="assign" name="lcdfilter">
            <const>lcddefault</const>
        </edit>
    </match>
</fontconfig>

After saving it, you might want to check in your Home folder's ~/.config/fontconfig folder to see if a copy of that original local.conf was automatically saved there. If so, replace it with the new one. You'll need to either logout and back in or restart your computer.

Here's a copy of the file that I used on LXDE if you want to peruse it...it's the same but doesn't have the autohint option...

<?xml version='1.0'?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM 'fonts.dtd'>
<fontconfig>
 <match target="font">
  <edit mode="assign" name="rgba">
   <const>rgb</const>
  </edit>
 </match>
 <match target="font">
  <edit mode="assign" name="hinting">
   <bool>true</bool>
  </edit>
 </match>
 <match target="font">
  <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle">
   <const>hintslight</const>
  </edit>
 </match>
 <match target="font">
  <edit mode="assign" name="antialias">
   <bool>true</bool>
  </edit>
 </match>
  <match target="font">
    <edit mode="assign" name="lcdfilter">
      <const>lcddefault</const>
    </edit>
  </match>
</fontconfig>

I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#18 2016-12-20 14:44:10

chillfan
Member
Registered: 2016-12-01
Posts: 38

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

Personally my current collection of fonts works well for my needs, which are very minimal and functional but don't go far beyond that. Yeah gvfs combined with dbus and polkit takes care of auto mounting see the thunar-volman package for thunar auto mounting, spacefm is supposed to work for auto mounting, maybe xfe can do it too, not sure about pcmanfm (the default file manager for lxde).

Last edited by chillfan (2016-12-20 14:53:30)

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#19 2016-12-20 15:33:17

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 93

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

MiyoLinux wrote:

So, after comparing the two files, you can remove everything between </match> and </fontconfig> so that you're left with...

Thank you for all of your suggestions. I have now tried removing the second part of local.conf and it still improves the look of the LibreOffice pull down menus, although the font is still small. Unfortunately the pull down menus on the other software deteriorates, although it does not get smaller. I think that currently I will put up with the poorer LibreOffice menus for the sake of everything else. I suspect that this is a LibreOffice problem rather that LXDE or Devuan.

Geoff

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#20 2016-12-20 15:56:44

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 93

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

I have found some info on the net about LibreOffice menu fonts at :-
https://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question … enu-fonts/
and by increasing the User Interface Scaling to 110% it has increased the size of the fonts enough for me to be getting on with.

It also mentions installing libreoffice-gtk. I'm not sure whether this is a good idea or whether it might start pulling in a lot of undesirable stuff.

Geoff

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#21 2016-12-20 16:04:04

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 93

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

Right! I have just installed libreoffice-gtk and it didn't pull in anything else and it has improved the look of the menus. I have now set the scaling back to 100% and it looks pretty good. Sorry for all of my ramblings.

Geoff

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#22 2016-12-20 16:16:28

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 93

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

chillfan wrote:

Yeah gvfs combined with dbus and polkit takes care of auto mounting see the thunar-volman package for thunar auto mounting, spacefm is supposed to work for auto mounting, maybe xfe can do it too, not sure about pcmanfm (the default file manager for lxde).

I have just had a quick look at installing gvfs and I see that it will pull in libsystemd0, so I have decided not to do that.

Geoff

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#23 2016-12-20 16:36:40

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 727

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

Geoff 42 wrote:
golinux wrote:

Do you have upower installed? Read through this for suggestions.

Yes I have "upower 1:0.9.23-2+devuan1.2" installed. I notice from the reference, which you give, that someone reports that installing upower made the shutdown options appear with logout. I also notice that lxsession depends on "consolekit | upower (<0.99) | systemd". I am not too clear on version numbers, but does that mean that lxsession will not use the version of upower that I have installed?

Geoff

I don't know about the upower version compatibility but do you really want to use an app that had a systemd dependency?  Perhaps there is another option that will work with lxde?

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#24 2016-12-20 16:53:06

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 93

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

golinux wrote:

I don't know about the upower version compatibility but do you really want to use an app that had a systemd dependency?  Perhaps there is another option that will work with lxde?

As I read it lxsession needs one of consolekit, upower or systemd, but not all of them and is running now without systemd. I do have a workround for the shutdown, although if there was a neater way of doing it that would be nice.

Geoff

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#25 2016-12-20 17:19:51

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 727

Re: LXDE user upgrades to Devuan Jessie

OK.  I missed that subtlety.  FWIW, I have both consolekit and upower installed.

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