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#1 2017-06-14 14:21:51

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

Debian lists announce that Stretch is coming! and will make release images from Saturday, the release will be coming soon https://release.debian.org/stretch/arch_qualify.html

this its only for informative, we know that Devuan its like Debian does in past, stable release need attention and Debian today its like winbuntu...

but my question here is: Can Devuan have more up to date packages in backports rather than Debian?

i mean, Devuan can take a step ahead and made their own backports packages more up to dates respect the debian does...? there's some idea or plan to do that in devuan? and security releases?

the major changes are a new totally behavior or Xorg.. legacy implementations vs modern DRI implementations those changes will be tracked by Devuan or will be totally by own?

also the debug packages now are separated (reasonable idea)
https://michael-prokop.at/blog/2017/05/ … anstretch/

[corrected some of the typos - golinux]

Last edited by golinux (2017-06-14 14:42:56)

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#2 2017-06-14 15:44:56

fsmithred
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 377

Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

I think package versions will remain constant between stretch and ascii. To do what you suggest would require a lot more people to do the work. Here's an explanation of amprolla that might answer some of your question.

Amprolla is an APT repository realtime merging mirror with caching support, used in Devuan to create and maintain package repositories. It brings package repository overlays to Apt-based distributions, a concept originating from Gentoo and present in other package managers such as GNU Guix. It was introduced as a quick way to solve the problem of serving Devuan-specific packages while keeping original Debian packages that don't need modifications, in order to reduce both resource consumption and the necessary work to make the Devuan Project a reality. Amprolla is tightly integrated with Devuan's infrastructure but may be used (and contributed to!) by others.

Amprolla runs as a daemon that monitors package changes in Debian by pulling them from Debian incoming repository queue, from packages.debian.org and sources.debian.org API. Once a change is identified, filters are applied to ensure the package dependency tree is correct. Then each modified package is synchronized to Devuan repositories. Amprolla maintains a complete local copy of all the repositories it tracks, but uses an HTTP redirect trick to save bandwidth and take advantage of the wide Debian repository mirror network for speed.

The local repository cache is used in case any new package in a Debian repository breaks dependencies or need actual human attention to be patched or built before insertion into the Devuan repositories. In any case, Amprolla can fallback to a previous version of the package if needed.

Amprolla integrates tightly with the development platform. It uses a SQL database to facilitate working at package level instead of suite level, and providing a REST API to access repository and package information and statistics. Version 2 of Amprolla will also replace dak functionality of Debian.

Because it provides package repository overlays, Amprolla can serve as the basis to expand such overlays to implement, e.g., personal package archives, thus making it easier to fork packages in the distribution. As a result, Devuan users are empowered, and Devuan maintainers encouraged to collaborate with (and listen to) users.

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#3 2017-06-14 15:54:42

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

fsmithred wrote:

I think package versions will remain constant between stretch and ascii. To do what you suggest would require a lot more people to do the work. Here's an explanation of amprolla that might answer some of your question.

Amprolla is an APT repository realtime merging....

why this important tecnicall information are not easy available for users?

that's explain many of things! so then in any case if this its the behaviour, i think Devuan developers now will have more work if continue mirroring the Debian repository, due the two main changes: debugger package repository and xorg new behaviour

so i see the future too complicated

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#4 2017-06-14 16:19:31

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 551

Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

mckaygerhard wrote:
fsmithred wrote:

I think package versions will remain constant between stretch and ascii. To do what you suggest would require a lot more people to do the work. Here's an explanation of amprolla that might answer some of your question.

Amprolla is an APT repository realtime merging....

why this important tecnicall information are not easy available for users?

Amprolla has been discussed for YEARS on the DNG mail list and irc.  We are in the process of moving to Amprolla2 .

This very forum has lists of git.d.o projects where amprolla is listed as: amprolla (devuan-infrastructure) - amprolla is an apt repository on the fly merger with proxy and....  Do take a look at those lists that are linked back to their respective git projects.

that's explain many of things! so then in any case if this its the behaviour, i think Devuan developers now will have more work if continue mirroring the Debian repository, due the two main changes: debugger package repository and xorg new behaviour

so i see the future too complicated

Why so negative about the future?  Accept the challenge or lose your freedom.  For me that choice is obvious . . .

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#5 2017-06-22 14:32:19

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

Why so negative about the future?  Accept the challenge or lose your freedom.  For me that choice is obvious . . .

the current "choices" are very vage and away of real freedom...

currently Xorg are complety moving to DRI and wayland are incoming ar maybe a default desktop...

i have a good machine, but older.. i can see movies at 1024p edit videos in HD1024p inclusive can someting see movies at 2048p if are 1024k rate..  of course using only openbox or wm

but with that "changes" in near future, my machine that still are WORKING and ROCKS, due WORK AND DO THE JOB, will not work anymore...  due the chipset and xorg will remove the support for it...

so my freedom are a fake.. due the change forces me to "buy new hardware, when my older hardware still work" only that developers dont "have attention on old stuff"

so ok, the code its here right? but some developers are not so "frindly" and "not have time to explain complicated things to support olders stuffs"

people like me need more "stupid explanatios" to make some piece of code... so answers never come..

freedom.. now free software are stupid M$ like world... industry control the software of FOSSS

now are Devuan a fake of the industri also?

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#6 2017-06-22 15:02:17

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 551

Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

I think you completely misunderstood what I was trying to say.  That would mirror the fact that I (and others) understand very little of what you write.  But even though the content is garbled, your combative, aggressive, arrogant attitude is clear and inappropriate.  Maybe you need a time out . . .

Or you can stop bitching and start doing something constructive to undo what is being done . .

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#7 2017-06-22 15:20:21

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

golinux wrote:

Or you can stop bitching and start doing something constructive to undo what is being done . .

combative? destructive? i made docs.. help with who to's! use it! make reports of some important bugs and not only reporting, also how to solve it? currently i made some specific docs related to devuan in gambas too!

please.. define destructive! not confusin with "blind"

and by the way.. still the bugs are not have response, i see that preocupation in the forums..

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#8 2017-06-22 15:36:49

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 551

Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

Please read more carefully.  I did not use the word 'destructive'.  Why would you think that YOUR bugs would be top priority for anyone but YOU!

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#9 2017-06-22 15:57:59

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

golinux wrote:

Please read more carefully.  I did not use the word 'destructive'.  Why would you think that YOUR bugs would be top priority for anyone but YOU!

i not talking about priority, i talking about some king of responses... for the users...

it seems we need more documentation effors .. when i send the i18n problem languaje.. the bugtraker still in last release only list Debian related packages.. that confuses newer users..... due we are not in Devuan..

its that fact "not constructuve" noot, its a problem and i notice to solve it! for that i try to lear to package and ask today to kalotaz how to process but without network connection..

currenlty if some users want ot use Devuan,. but cannot use in native languaje.. will let Devuan.. and future of the distro depends of the users choice.. not of the developers dessires... due we all are together not only the developers

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#10 2017-06-22 16:00:04

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

PD: same for the choice of the colors! its about users choice.. not about "blind" decisions

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#11 2017-07-24 08:40:38

steelpillow
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Registered: 2017-06-19
Posts: 5

Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

Hoping to understand the relationship between Devuan and Debian versions in simple words. As I currently understand it:

1. Devuan community maintain SystemD-free versions of adulterated Debian packages, on Amprolla.
2. Amprolla automatically identifies and pulls in the other packages, from Debian repos, which have not been modified by Devuan community.
3. Current Devuan state is the merge of these two resources on Amprolla.

Is this correct?

Also, which Debian repos - Testing or Stable?

Does it all mean that Stretch, the new Debian Stable, is effectively the default base for Devuan, or is Amprolla still full of Debian Jessie packages and is waiting for somebody to trigger another trawl, through the Stretch repos?

Last edited by steelpillow (2017-07-24 08:46:33)

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#12 2017-07-24 09:29:14

fsmithred
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 377

Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

1, 2 and 3 are correct. Devuan Jessie tracks Debian Jessie, ascii is tracking stretch, and ceres will always track sid. While stretch has reached stable, ascii still requires some work. I think it's less confusing if you stick with the codenames instead of talking about stable/testing/unstable. Right now, debian buster is in testing and devuan beowulf, which will track buster, does not yet exist. I think the beowulf repo will probably get set up after amprolla3 goes online, which should be soon.

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#13 2017-07-24 14:24:52

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

debian stable/stretch has 5 year support, ascii does not release yet, how long will be have siupoort ascii?

debian jeesie was 5 year suppot, Devuan jessie now left 2 years only?

umm i thing there's no much support for us?

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#14 2017-07-24 14:48:28

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 551

Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

For sure ASCII will be released before Debian Stretch moves to old stable.  [/endsarcasm]

Anyone who is dissatisfied here can always move elsewhere . . .

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#15 2017-07-24 14:51:48

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

hi golinux, i'm not sarcasm.. i just installed Devuan just 3 weeks ago.. and now the jessie debian are deprecated! so my Devuan will be deprecated..

if i not are a programer, i dont wanna stay more pending of the upgrades rather than enjoy movies in Devuan..

please, stop thinking i'm a craker and please start thinking in users..

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#16 2017-07-24 15:03:33

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 551

Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

oldstable (Jessie) is not "deprecated".  It is a viable LTS release.

If you want the latest, upgrade to ASCII and deal with the breakage.

I have no idea what a 'craker' is.  You might try to offer solutions rather than just complain and denigrate our efforts here.

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#17 2017-07-24 15:20:57

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

again, please, in the last post i not denigrate, i receive by you a "endsarcasm"

i only want to know the amount of my devuan now "oldstable" release, pardom me if "deprecated" are not same, as i understand..

do you like the power of administrator? pleae respect to me!

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#18 2017-07-24 15:43:00

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 551

Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

Devuan Jessie will mirror Debian "oldstable" until its EOL several years from now.   Relax and enjoy the stability that 'just works'.

Before Jessie is EOL, ASCII will be released.  There is no ETA for when that will be.

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#19 2017-07-24 15:58:39

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

its a better response from an administrator, and also, only "works", but not "just", remenber i have a several problem with spanish and russian file names..

PD: i have all locales gnrated, utf8 as default, dont installed locale-purge.. same packages as debian squeeze, but nothing seems works, reported the bug agains devuan bugtraker, etc etc.. i posted in the issues forums

Last edited by mckaygerhard (2017-07-24 15:59:01)

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#20 2017-07-24 22:24:36

greenjeans
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Registered: 2017-04-07
Posts: 278
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Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

golinux wrote:

Relax and enjoy the stability that 'just works'.

You know, it's funny, because probably nobody that ever posts on this forum will ever do that, lol, while on the other hand, every system I install here locally for people who aren't geeks and just want to use their computer, will do just that, and religiously.

Seriously, when I see them in public after months of use, I always ask if they have ever updated and they never have, nor have most even installed any more programs over and above what I installed for them originally.

I think sometimes linux enthusiasts forget that not everyone is into computers like they are, 99% of computer users worldwide just want something simple and stable to use daily, not a hotrod project with constant breakage.


https://sourceforge.net/projects/vuu-do/
Vuu-do GNU/Linux, minimal 64 and 32 bit Devuan-based openbox and mate systems to build on, maximal versions if you prefer your linux fully-loaded.

Refracta and Miyolinux had too many tequila shots one night...    ....9 months later a vuu-do chile was born.....;-)

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#21 2017-07-24 22:28:05

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 551

Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

greenjeans wrote:
golinux wrote:

Relax and enjoy the stability that 'just works'.

You know, it's funny, because probably nobody that ever posts on this forum will ever do that . . .

Well, I do!  I like stable and boring and only try new things when absolutely necessary.  wink

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#22 2017-07-24 22:36:10

greenjeans
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Registered: 2017-04-07
Posts: 278
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Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

golinux wrote:
greenjeans wrote:
golinux wrote:

Relax and enjoy the stability that 'just works'.

You know, it's funny, because probably nobody that ever posts on this forum will ever do that . . .

Well, I do!  I like stable and boring and only try new things when absolutely necessary.  wink

I'm posting from the first Devuan netinstall I did last year, this is my test-mule partition, the original 32 bit beta I first tried, dang thing has never crapped out on me, been through a gig of updates with it, have tested close to 300 programs with it (it has at least 100 on it now), probably several thousand packages overall,  and chunks of leftover stuff I deleted. I have hacked it close to death many times, but still it never fails and it still runs pretty fast, I use it every day.

I REALLY like that kind of stability and toughness.


https://sourceforge.net/projects/vuu-do/
Vuu-do GNU/Linux, minimal 64 and 32 bit Devuan-based openbox and mate systems to build on, maximal versions if you prefer your linux fully-loaded.

Refracta and Miyolinux had too many tequila shots one night...    ....9 months later a vuu-do chile was born.....;-)

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#23 2017-07-24 22:54:09

sgage
Member
Registered: 2016-12-01
Posts: 47

Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

golinux wrote:
greenjeans wrote:
golinux wrote:

Relax and enjoy the stability that 'just works'.

You know, it's funny, because probably nobody that ever posts on this forum will ever do that . . .

Well, I do!  I like stable and boring and only try new things when absolutely necessary.  wink

I'm with you, golinux. I like stable. I like 'just works'. Everyone has different needs (or 'felt needs', often not real needs), but I don't happen to need the latest bleeding edge version of anything. I do maintain an Ascii installation, because I like to be able to test and offer bug reports and such. To tell the truth, Ascii is pretty darn solid already, and I am certainly not worried about the succession from Jessie to Ascii whenever that might occur.

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#24 2017-07-24 23:12:03

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

greenjeans wrote:
golinux wrote:

Relax and enjoy the stability that 'just works'.

I think sometimes linux enthusiasts forget that not everyone is into computers like they are, 99% of computer users worldwide just want something simple and stable to use daily, not a hotrod project with constant breakage.

i'm with you greenjeans, obviously..  well as i understand, devuan not "just" works, theres some issue still open in the bugtracker and in this forum.. so please be hones and get down a little the face..

A little humility is necessary there are many houses here

DEVUAN ITS FOR USERS OR FOR THE FORUM ADMINS AND FRIENDS?

Last edited by mckaygerhard (2017-07-24 23:13:02)

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#25 2017-07-24 23:23:25

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 551

Re: Stretch is coming, Devuan status backported or up to date packages

mckaygerhard wrote:

A little humility is necessary there are many houses here

Perhaps you should follow your own advice.

DEVUAN ITS FOR USERS OR FOR THE FORUM ADMINS AND FRIENDS?

Devuan is for anyone - there are many use cases - and your insinuations and accusations are hostile and insulting.   Please recalibrate you attitude meter if you want to continue to post here.

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