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#1 2017-06-10 16:30:33

john_j
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 4

newbie question, as I am

Hi All,

I'm a long time Linux as a desktop user, but I've never really gotten under the hood. So, I was thinking that maybe I'd install Devuan and use one of the Debian Administration Handbooks to dig in. Which version would be the most relevant to Devuan? I believe right now the newest is Debian 8, but I'm assuming, always a mistake I know, that that version would have a lot on systemd and little to nothing on other init systems.

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#2 2017-06-10 17:19:11

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 645

Re: newbie question, as I am

I'd stick with the Wheezy handbook and read/compare selectively in the Jessie Handbook.  There are things that are specific to Devuan of course.

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#3 2017-06-10 17:52:10

john_j
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 4

Re: newbie question, as I am

Thanks golinux,

I've downloaded the wheezey and jessie handbooks.

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#4 2017-06-10 17:53:23

msi
Member
Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 37

Re: newbie question, as I am

golinux wrote:

I'd stick with the Wheezy handbook and read/compare selectively in the Jessie Handbook.

Unfortunately, the "browse online" link in that article points to the book for Debian Jessie. The Wheezy version can be found at https://debian-handbook.info/browse/wheezy/.

Btw, I'm not quite sure if reading these books is the best way to learn your way around Devuan and GNU/Linux in general. But it won't do any harm either, I guess.

Last edited by msi (2017-06-10 17:55:50)

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#5 2017-06-10 21:53:12

greenjeans
Member
Registered: 2017-04-07
Posts: 355
Website

Re: newbie question, as I am

msi wrote:

Btw, I'm not quite sure if reading these books is the best way to learn your way around Devuan and GNU/Linux in general. But it won't do any harm either, I guess.

So for a change, a newbie is actually offering to RTFM all on his own, and you're trying to discourage him?

wink


https://sourceforge.net/projects/vuu-do/
Vuu-do GNU/Linux, minimal 64 and 32 bit Devuan-based openbox and mate systems to build on, maximal versions if you prefer your linux fully-loaded.

Please donate to support Devuan and init freedom! https://devuan.org/os/donate

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#6 2017-06-11 12:29:19

msi
Member
Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 37

Re: newbie question, as I am

greenjeans wrote:

So for a change, a newbie is actually offering to RTFM all on his own, and you're trying to discourage him?

Now that you say it, I realize the oddity. Well, no discouragement intended.

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#7 2017-06-11 20:53:54

msi
Member
Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 37

Re: newbie question, as I am

I actually didn't want to go into this (for perceived lack of sufficient qualification), but as it has been bugging me all day, let me say a few words about why I expressed the assumption that reading the manual may not be the best way of "getting under the hood".

Simply put, my experience with learning parts of how GNU/Linux or a specific distribution work and how to do things on these systems sort of contradicts the idea of sitting down, reading the book, going through some practical examples and then being a more competent user. That rather reminds me of dull introductory courses at university where I've never really learned anything. I'm really far from being a GNU/Linux expert, but the knowledge I've acquired so far mainly came from trying to solve actual problems I encountered. These included tweaking my desktop environment, wanting to find a better backup solution, trying to get hardware to work that wouldn't out of the box, finding ways of stripping down the system so it would be easy on resources, wanting to auto-generate a bunch of HTML pages, wanting to share files locally and over the network etc.

So, in reference to the Debian Administrator's Handbook, I'd say you best be your own case study. You could just start by asking yourself: Where are the rough edges of my setup? Which problems do I regularly run into using this system? Is there anything that I find kind of hard to do that may be done in a better way?

This apporach really has its advantages: Your "getting under the hood" will start from your personal perspective and use case. This not only avoids the delicate question „Why am I reading this?“, it also helps you limit your endeavors, letting your knowledge and skills evolve gradually instead of going full in, getting unnecessarily confused, not really knowing what to do with all the information later on and surely forgetting most of it in no time.

However, this doesn't mean you shouldn't be dealing with the concepts and inner workings of GNU/Linux or Devuan or computers and software in general. If you really try to solve a problem and understand the what and why of it's solution, you may actually have to read a lot of background documentation (like, e. g., parts of the Wheezy book), but it will still relate to what you want to achieve.

Also, when I read documentation in order to solve a problem and finally find a proper way to do it, I'll write it up and add it to my personal collection of documents on how to do this and that on GNU/Linux. This really helps a lot.

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#8 2017-06-11 21:19:35

sgage
Member
Registered: 2016-12-01
Posts: 58

Re: newbie question, as I am

msi wrote:

Also, when I read documentation in order to solve a problem and finally find a proper way to do it, I'll write it up and add it to my personal collection of documents on how to do this and that on GNU/Linux. This really helps a lot.

Definitely write stuff down! I have had a directory in my home partition called ~/linux_tips since the late 90's, and while some of the items are unnecessary and or outdated now, there's stuff in there that I refer to time and again.

Don't depend on just remembering stuff. Because as you get older, your memory is the second thing to go. (I can't remember the first thing).  ;-)

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#9 2017-06-12 08:10:00

FOSSuser
Member
From: Surrey/Hants border UK
Registered: 2016-12-11
Posts: 167

Re: newbie question, as I am

From the first time I used Linux, I began writing down all the little things that I learned in a small notebook, for quick reference.
(If you can't get into your system, it's no good having the info on there. wink )

Also, learn how to use a live distro to access your installed system, comes in very handy at times. smile

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#10 2017-06-14 21:40:12

john_j
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 4

Re: newbie question, as I am

Thank you All,

For your replies. I'm starting with the Wheezy Handbook and this looks interesting https://linux-shell-commands.jimdo.com/ and mr.greenjeans http://www.mrgreenjeans.net/vuudo Vuu-do GNU/Linux, minimal Devuan-based openbox looks great. I have the Devuan live iso installed in a VM and I think I'll try Vuu-do GNU/Linux, as well.

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#11 2017-06-24 11:27:18

john_j
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 4

Re: newbie question, as I am

Hi Mr.GreenJeans,

I've tried the links you provided several times since you posted them here and I can get to the parent directory but no further. I'm excited about the openbox offering. My favourite distro, used it for years, was #! (CrunchBang) before the switch to systemd and Philip Newborough stepping down as owner/developer/maintainer.

http://www.mrgreenjeans.net/vuudo

I get 404 - Not Found on all the links except for the Oxygen link, which does download.

Is there a definitive Linux shell commands reference? I'm going to order Linux Shell Commands: A Tutorial Quick Reference for Desktop Users and it was great of the author to put most of book up on the web, but I expect there is much more.

and if anyone is seeing this as I continually edit this post I apologize. I thought that was better than posting 4 short posts smile

Last edited by john_j (2017-06-24 11:38:10)

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#12 2017-06-24 13:52:16

GNUser
Member
Registered: 2017-03-16
Posts: 150

Re: newbie question, as I am

john_j wrote:

Is there a definitive Linux shell commands reference?

I consider these two to be the most definitive:

http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide (the pitfalls section is especially good: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashPitfalls)

http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/

The best way to get started with shell programming is to write scripts that solve your simple real-world problems (any time you find yourself thinking "wouldn't it be nice if my computer could do _____ automatically?" counts as a real-world problem). You then tackle increasingly more complex problems. As you do this, consult references on an as-needed basis. If you get stuck, ask.

I think reading the two references above start to finish would be most helpful after you've written several scripts and are comfortable with the basics.

Last edited by GNUser (2017-06-24 14:12:07)

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#13 2017-06-24 14:21:41

GNUser
Member
Registered: 2017-03-16
Posts: 150

Re: newbie question, as I am

BTW, don't worry too much about style at first. Just get the scripts to work. As you learn better ways of doing things, you can edit your scripts to make them prettier and more robust. This is called "refactoring" and is a good practice.

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#14 2017-06-24 18:34:01

lazlo
Member
From: the Top Left of the Noosphere
Registered: 2017-05-15
Posts: 31

Re: newbie question, as I am

GNUser wrote:

BTW, don't worry too much about style at first. Just get the scripts to work. As you learn better ways of doing things, you can edit your scripts to make them prettier and more robust. This is called "refactoring" and is a good practice.

I was given this same advice long ago and it's some the best.  As I have gotten older I have also found it handy to keep a text file in my home folder that I call "bash-fu" and it contains almost all of the scripts I have written along with the comments.  If my middle aged brain can't remember what it wrote a few years back I can just peek inside my bash-fu file and find what I need.  I can then copy, paste, and re-factor as needed.




lazlo

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