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#1 2019-11-19 15:16:23

cipher
Member
Registered: 2019-08-20
Posts: 4  

systemd

First, I looked for this topic, didn't find it

I'm in Distro watch,I see ceres and testing with systemd included.

Why is this?  I thought the point of Devuan was systemd free...

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#2 2019-11-19 15:48:01

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,771  

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#3 2019-11-19 16:42:15

cipher
Member
Registered: 2019-08-20
Posts: 4  

Re: systemd

ceres and testing specifically show systemd 232 and 238 as a package. ascii shows nothing in that field.
Seems to be a bit more going on than "harmless" systemd units files
Why does distro watch show the systemd package for ceres and testing but not for ascii?

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#4 2019-11-19 17:25:18

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,771  

Re: systemd

If they are also listed here, let us know:

https://pkginfo.devuan.org/

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#5 2019-11-19 17:44:01

cipher
Member
Registered: 2019-08-20
Posts: 4  

Re: systemd

Well ascii shows 24 hits for systemd
https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pk … ease=ascii

I guess I was mistaken about Devuan, I thought the entire point was to not use systemd.
Maybe "systemd light" would be a better motto...

"Devuan GNU+Linux is a fork of Debian without systemd that offers users control over their system by avoiding unnecessary entanglements and ensuring Init Freedom. "  Just doesn't seem accurate now...

Last edited by cipher (2019-11-19 17:44:32)

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#6 2019-11-19 18:15:09

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,771  

Re: systemd

The ones that are actually harmful and not just imagination are listed here:
https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt

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#7 2019-11-19 18:20:13

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 340  
Website

Re: systemd

cipher wrote:

Well ascii shows 24 hits for systemd
https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pk … ease=ascii

The pattern is improving though: 14 results for beowulf and just 7 for ceres.

And please check the package descriptions: most of that stuff is for interacting with systemd and so will do *nothing* if it isn't installed.


Fabricando fit faber

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#8 2019-11-19 18:26:19

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,771  

Re: systemd

HoaS . . . see the link on my first post in this thread that was rejected by the OP.

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#9 2019-11-19 20:09:19

cipher
Member
Registered: 2019-08-20
Posts: 4  

Re: systemd

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
cipher wrote:

Well ascii shows 24 hits for systemd
https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pk … ease=ascii

The pattern is improving though: 14 results for beowulf and just 7 for ceres.

And please check the package descriptions: most of that stuff is for interacting with systemd and so will do *nothing* if it isn't installed.


Good point.  But if these systemd components do nothing if systemd isn't installed (weird concept that) then why have them at all?

We include stuff called systemdthisorthat but unless realsystemd is installed they do nothing.
Why include things that do nothing?

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#10 2019-11-19 20:54:47

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,289  

Re: systemd

cipher wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
cipher wrote:

Well ascii shows 24 hits for systemd
https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pk … ease=ascii

The pattern is improving though: 14 results for beowulf and just 7 for ceres.

And please check the package descriptions: most of that stuff is for interacting with systemd and so will do *nothing* if it isn't installed.


Good point.  But if these systemd components do nothing if systemd isn't installed (weird concept that) then why have them at all?

We include stuff called systemdthisorthat but unless realsystemd is installed they do nothing.
Why include things that do nothing?

Excluding packages with systemd in the name when they don't pull in systemd and their presence doesn't break anything would be a wasted effort, and in some cases, their removal would break things because of package dependencies.

Also note that some of the packages in the list you generated have '+devuan' in the version. That means we modified the package so that it will work without systemd. If we wanted to change the names of those packages, we'd have to modify any packages that depend on them to recognize the new names.

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