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#1 2019-08-28 17:56:07

inukaze
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 84  

Websites with Arguments against systemd

Exploit 1 -> https://thehackernews.com/2019/01/linux … ploit.html
Sucks -> https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd/
Biggest Fallacies -> http://judecnelson.blogspot.com/2014/09 … acies.html
Bloatware -> https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2016/05/1 … ing-worse/
Arguments against systemd -> http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p … st_systemd [Note : not always active]
dhcpv6 rce -> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/2 … hcpv6_rce/
Startup & Shutdown -> http://www.softpanorama.org/Commercial_ … temd.shtml
Exploit 2 -> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/01/3 … d_exploit/

This all url i get from Artix Linux Web Page.

i love this article -> https://ungleich.ch/en-us/cms/blog/2017 … of-devuan/

from years ago i think SystemD just convert GNU/Linux into GNU/Windows ME+Vista+8 , yes the worst versions of that operating systemd because the innecesary complexity, and the fails, and the security holes, and slowdown the distros, and too make bigger the binaries executables compiled against glibc.

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#2 2019-08-28 18:27:31

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,705  

Re: Websites with Arguments against systemd

Are we really going down this road again?  IMO the best analysis of all is here.  Not a "website" but nails the issues in one post:

http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/ker … 02496.html

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#3 2019-08-28 18:53:21

inukaze
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 84  

Re: Websites with Arguments against systemd

golinux wrote:

Are we really going down this road again?  IMO the best analysis of all is here.  Not a "website" but nails the issues in one post:

http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/ker … 02496.html

I don't know this thank you very much for the link.

Well i am thinking on translate all that articles to my native lang, spanish, because on spanish don't have much information about this things in the mayority of cases, are just opinions without fundaments, and by that way it's nothing reliable.

On English exist a lot of articles about the theme, but in spanish just a few in comparation.

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#4 2019-08-28 19:59:25

foobarbaz
Member
Registered: 2019-08-28
Posts: 1  

Re: Websites with Arguments against systemd

Most of the links you have made the rounds in the Linux world (several) times before and left the wider audience pretty much unimpressed. They have all pretty much failed to leave a lasting impression. Outside of the Devuan community people will just tell you to stop beating these dead horses.

Maybe you could try to highlight positive aspects of the many alternatives instead?

Knoppix recently moved away from systemd. Why did they do so? There must be something that they can do now that was impossible before.

How does runit enable what Void wants to do?

Maybe some tutorials on how to replicate some of the things that people consider unique to systemd with other init systems? Systemd just uses kernel features after all and any process can do that, too.

I would find such links way more helpful and convincing. And you do not come across as some old fart that is just annoyed that the kids are enjoying themselves.

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#5 2019-08-29 08:25:56

ToxicExMachina
Member
Registered: 2019-03-11
Posts: 124  

Re: Websites with Arguments against systemd

I'l just leave it here

https://ewontfix.com/14/

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#6 2019-08-30 11:24:04

masterpeace
Member
Registered: 2019-08-20
Posts: 9  

Re: Websites with Arguments against systemd

runit is working great . i made a sata2 old pc boot devuan xfce under 25s (usually somewhere between 29~33s) . debian systemd on the other hand boot about (34~35) and have the boot crashed . or maybe i should install systemd on devuan ? since removing systemd from debian is a hassle . I run trial 5 times , and one of the systemd boot crashed (the first boot) . runit and sysVinit on the other hand have never failed a boot process .

MiyoLinux wrote:

I had to do a hard shutdown. It was stuck in an endless loop of "start job this" and "start job that".

this is what happened to my debian install too , but it repeated too fast and then slowing down and freezes .

btw that was the first time i ever crashed a boot . even my old windows 7 times never failed a boot .

should i increase the trial times ?

Last edited by masterpeace (2019-08-30 12:48:30)

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#7 2019-08-30 11:39:39

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 960  

Re: Websites with Arguments against systemd

I recently tried a systemd Openbox distro on hardware. On the 2nd day, I needed to reboot. After 12 - 13 minutes (yes...seriously), I had to do a hard shutdown. It was stuck in an endless loop of "start job this" and "start job that".

I wiped it off my hard drive...


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#8 2019-09-02 10:35:31

ToxicExMachina
Member
Registered: 2019-03-11
Posts: 124  

Re: Websites with Arguments against systemd

The main argument against SystemD is... SystemD is proprietary software.

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-sou … point.html

When we call software “free,” we mean that it respects the users' essential freedoms: the freedom to run it, to study and change it, and to redistribute copies with or without changes. This is a matter of freedom, not price, so think of “free speech,” not “free beer.”

These freedoms are vitally important. They are essential, not just for the individual users' sake, but for society as a whole because they promote social solidarity—that is, sharing and cooperation. They become even more important as our culture and life activities are increasingly digitized. In a world of digital sounds, images, and words, free software becomes increasingly essential for freedom in general.

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sof … nt.en.html

With free software, the users control the program, both individually and collectively. So they control what their computers do (assuming those computers are loyal and do what the users' programs tell them to do).

Even when proprietary software isn't downright malicious, its developers have an incentive to make it addictive, controlling and manipulative. You can say, as does the author of that article, that the developers have an ethical obligation not to do that, but generally they follow their interests. If you want this not to happen, make sure the program is controlled by its users.

Facts:
1. Most (or even 100%) of SystemD supporters don't care about libre software. They care about open source corporate valuables.
2. SystemD is addictive, controlling and manipulative project. Addiction, control and manipulation are the only motivations of SystemD development. This is how SystemD is violating principles of freedom.

In total: SystemD is open source but proprietary software.

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#9 2019-09-16 20:27:30

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,705  

Re: Websites with Arguments against systemd

This is a classic! Debian and Devuan from the  Parrot Project Blog

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