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#1 2018-05-25 00:40:38

0xf4b10
Member
Registered: 2018-05-12
Posts: 26  

Hyperbola Thread

I saw on this list about systemd-free distros this one called Hyperbola which is based on Devuan. Has anyone of you guys ever used it? What are your opinions on it? I've read that it used pacman as package manager which I found great because I'm a long run Archlinux user (only left arch for devuan because of SystemDisease stuff) and I prefeer pacman + aur than apt. Then matching it with Devuan which is also great I think would be a great experience. What do you have to say?

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#2 2018-05-25 01:23:16

dxrobertson
Member
Registered: 2017-05-04
Posts: 55  

Re: Hyperbola Thread

I have not used Hyperbola, but what a kool math subject name. 

From viewing your links,  I interpret Hyperbola as more of an ARCH based distro and from your post (http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p … ut_systemd) ;  "security/stability patches ported from Devuan".  That sounds to me like they are merely pulling in modified package from Devuan rather than basing their distro on Devuan.  And using pacman seems ARCH based.

If you are interested in an ARCH based non-systemd- Artix is based on open-rc.  I ran this system when it was an unofficial release of Manjaro, it was very good and stable; very Manjaro-like.

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#3 2018-05-25 01:31:21

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,182  

Re: Hyperbola Thread

Hyperbola has requested to be acknowledged on our init freedom page and that is being discussed.  dxrobertson is correct that it is arch-based and only uses parts of devuan so not really a devuan derivative.  More of a chimera.

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#4 2018-05-25 02:35:18

figdev
Member
Registered: 2018-05-14
Posts: 68  

Re: Hyperbola Thread

golinux wrote:

Hyperbola has requested to be acknowledged on our init freedom page and that is being discussed.  dxrobertson is correct that it is arch-based and only uses parts of devuan so not really a devuan derivative.  More of a chimera.

i actually agree with this. i was very sceptical the moment i read "pacman" (since ive only used pacman on arch derivs) that this was in fact part of the devuan family. im also sure that it doesnt *claim* to be part of the devuan family, which would be a clue as well. i welcome and sympathise with percentage-based arguments as to what is/not devuan, though im not married to that argument either.

i think we are getting very close to a need for a very official definition of what devuan is. i have contacted dyne.org but im not counting on a speedy reply.

if someone is going to officially define what constitutes "devuan" and derivs, i figure two things have supreme merit here:

* what the criteria was for debian derivs and respins

(perhaps more importantly)

* whatever jaromil says about it

(perhaps also)

* what the entire devuan team says, from the top- down.

right now it matters much less what is/not devuan, but between the (fairly open) trademark issues and really just a matter of "should i consider myself a participant or not? what are the official requirements?" i think this question is increasing need of settling through proper channels.

not that i think it needs to go to a vote or any of the overly fancy stuff debian went through just to put systemd in debian. i doubt devuan will ever have half the government bloat debian did-- in retrospect, being "too official" didnt help debian that much, right? so im not saying it would necessarily help too much with this either.

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#5 2018-05-25 03:18:15

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,182  

Re: Hyperbola Thread

I think that's a solution in need of a problem but I understand where you're coming from and why.

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#6 2018-05-25 03:36:30

figdev
Member
Registered: 2018-05-14
Posts: 68  

Re: Hyperbola Thread

I think that's a solution in need of a problem but I understand where you're coming from and why.

i believe you understand the obvious part, yes. perhaps more than that.

but heres the bigger part: devuan wants participation and it wants derivatives.

if the the definition is inclusive to the point of absurdity-- then you and i might even agree that would make the name lack meaning. if the definition is too exclusive, then people are shut out of devuan without good reason or instructions on how to resolve it.

so perhaps there is no problem, however im not sure i agree. so far, where ive hoped for real arguments and discussion of this ive received assertions instead.

i happen to prefer greater substance, but you cant always buy responses with substance-- let alone get them for free! so im afraid i might understand this present situation too-- rest assured though, that i wont bring it up again in this topic. good call on the hyperbola classification though, im pretty confident they wont disagree either.

Last edited by figdev (2018-05-25 03:38:50)

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#7 2018-05-25 07:59:32

KatolaZ
Member
Registered: 2017-03-11
Posts: 36  

Re: Hyperbola Thread

It seems absurd to have to restate the obvious again and again, but there we go.

Devuan GNU+Linux is a Linux distribution forked from Debian in 2014. More info about Devuan can be found at:

  http://www.devuan.org

A detailed explanation of why Devuan came to existence can be found at:

  https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork

Official Devuan installation images and live isos can be downloaded at:

  http://files.devuan.org

Devuan has no generals, no colonels, no sergeants, no soldiers, no badges or shiny stickers. Devuan has users. There are a lot of ways in which Devuan users can help Devuan. A non-comprehensive list can be found at:

  https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1380#p1380

The concept of "derivative" should be very clear to anybody that has been around the Free Software movement in the last 25 years or so, but there you go. A Devuan derivative is an independent project which uses Devuan as a base. Devuan encourages users to make their own derivatives, and makes available easy-to-use tools to create respins and personalisations, but this does not mean that Devuan "wants" derivatives. There is no "Official Devuan Derivative" programme,and no "Devuan derivative" badge to show off. Devuan does not provide any endorsement to any derivative (in the same way as Debian does not endorse Mint or Ubuntu, in the same way as RedHat does not endorse Scientific Linux). The list of existing Devuan derivatives is just meant as a service to Devuan users. That list might be reviewed every now and then, and new derivatives might be added after having been reviewed to check that they do what they promise (nobody wants to have a Fedora derivative in that list, right?). But that's not among Devuan's priorities. Devuan's priority is to provide a free, universal, stable, dependable operating system called "Devuan GNU+Linux".

Quite often, the developers of Devuan derivatives are active members of the Devuan community, which can be roughly defined as the union of the sets of Devuan users, subscribers to DNG, participants to this forum and to the #devuan IRC channel, etc. They normally provide "positive contributions" to the Devuan community, where a "positive contribution" could be in the form of helping other users, suggesting tips, providing bug reports and patches, participating to the discussions with pertinent comments, and so on.

I am convinced that, just to make a random example, vomiting nonsense about Devuan in this and other forums has little chance to be considered a "positive contribution" to the Devuan community by any mentally sane person, as much as spiralling into endless discussions about what a Devuan derivative is, or might be, or should be, or inventing yet another effective way to decide which colour the bike shed should be painted.But that's just my personal opinion. Reality is that there are no bike sheds to paint, and no bikes to put in there.

HTH

KatolaZ

Last edited by KatolaZ (2018-05-25 08:10:25)

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#8 2018-05-25 08:04:52

KatolaZ
Member
Registered: 2017-03-11
Posts: 36  

Re: Hyperbola Thread

0xf4b10 wrote:

I saw on this list about systemd-free distros this one called Hyperbola which is based on Devuan. Has anyone of you guys ever used it? What are your opinions on it? I've read that it used pacman as package manager which I found great because I'm a long run Archlinux user (only left arch for devuan because of SystemDisease stuff) and I prefeer pacman + aur than apt. Then matching it with Devuan which is also great I think would be a great experience. What do you have to say?

It looks like Hyperbola is based on Arch, so far. So it's not a Devuan derivative, if this is what you are asking. I have not tried Hyperbola (or any Arch-based distro, for that matter) it so I can't sy amuch about it. You might want to ask more information on their forum/mailing-list.

Last edited by KatolaZ (2018-05-25 08:05:43)

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#9 2018-05-25 09:10:51

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 106  

Re: Hyperbola Thread

I have use Hyperbola, it is a good arch no systemd spin and worked fine on my laptop.

https://www.hyperbola.info/news/milky-way-v02-release/

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p … ut_systemd

Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre     OpenRC     (2) "LTS Arch snapshot versions + security/stability patches ported from Devuan"; amd64, i686

While not a devuan spin it does use devuan as part of its working mechanisms going by what is stated in without-systemd.

Last edited by Panopticon (2018-05-25 09:16:44)

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#10 2018-05-25 09:25:34

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 106  

Re: Hyperbola Thread

To the OP, give it  try. I didnt have many issues with it at the time as long as you are aware of the differences in installing arch the non systemd way, i thought it was quite smart what they have done. Parabola similarly has a no systemd openrc spin as well.

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#11 2018-05-25 18:08:42

siva
Member
Registered: 2018-01-25
Posts: 151  
Website

Re: Hyperbola Thread

"LTS Arch snapshot versions + security/stability patches ported from Devuan"

Isn't that like calling Debian an OpenBSD derivative because it uses tools like ssh?

Also, it looks like they need to update their main page

Derived from Arch plus stability and security from Debian...

Interesting project though.  Looks like they have their own grsec kernel that was recently updated.  Hope they backported KPTI, too.

Last edited by siva (2018-05-25 18:10:50)

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#12 2018-05-26 05:40:31

pekman
Member
From: /usr/bin/pekman
Registered: 2017-05-11
Posts: 58  

Re: Hyperbola Thread

Hyperbola is Arch style/philosophy/infrastructure + Debian package Stability. Hyperbola endorsed Init Freedom movement, use OpenRC init.

All packages is compiled for original sources + Debian patches via PKGBUILD.

Hyperbola and Devuan is Very Cool.

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#13 2018-06-11 20:45:35

zapper
Member
Registered: 2017-05-29
Posts: 57  

Re: Hyperbola Thread

golinux wrote:

Hyperbola has requested to be acknowledged on our init freedom page and that is being discussed.  dxrobertson is correct that it is arch-based and only uses parts of devuan so not really a devuan derivative.  More of a chimera.

I use Hyperbola now, I will tell you one thing though, it is extremely stable. Just don't remove essential or very much needed packages. wink

But yeah, this distro stopped me from distro hopping. smile

a bit of a warning, no graphical installer yet though. And I am not sure how to make /home and root be encrypted without everything else including boot.

I followed the libreboot guide for doing FDE but other than that I have zero clue how to do partitioning. ;/

Also, you need two laptops to do this to install on one. One to install on, one to read the guides.  unless you have a printer... wink


Good thing is though, it has a hardened web browser, hardened email client and network-manager. 

and updating usually is lightning fast even with only 300 or less mpbs per second.

But do not expect to install .deb files. I don't think it has a dpkg on it. and non-free software probably won't work unless it is through emulators like dosbox.

That's all I know of now. Just letting you know. wink AUR may work btw, but I really don't recommend it.

Again, it stopped my distro hopping. smile

Last edited by zapper (2018-06-11 20:52:08)

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