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#1 Re: Off-topic » Anyone have familiarity with GrapheneOS? » 2025-07-16 04:27:58

Your british?

Nope. There's a clue in there if you really want to play guessing games, but that wasn't it.

#2 Re: Off-topic » Anyone have familiarity with GrapheneOS? » 2025-07-15 04:50:30

Carrier branded phones might well have a locked bootloader as well (it's an option a carrier can request from the OEM), but IME that level of dickery is mostly a 'murican thing. Down here carrier locks of any kind are a rarity (outside of hire-purchase type arrangements), as is carrier branding in general... because we still have consumer-protection laws 'n stuff.

Personally I just refuse to deal with any provider that doesn't allow BYOD, and refuse to buy any device that's locked to a specific provider.
That usually means purchasing the hardware up-front at full price (or the used market, which I am a big proponent of in general), as opposed to the whole "sign up and get $phone on discount / glorified hire" thing. I'll gladly do that if it means I actually get to own my stuff. Matter of fact, everything I own I actually own, as a matter of principle.

My current phone came from England via ebay, and I did my own research on radio frequencies, carrier compatibility, lock status, parts availablilty and third-party OS support.
It was certainly more work than "sign up with $provider, get phone, use phone", but OTOH this one is mine, and I get to do whatever I want with it, for as long as I want (or at least until the next ridiculous [X]G hype-wave).

#3 Re: Off-topic » Anyone have familiarity with GrapheneOS? » 2025-07-12 19:03:12

beware the Magic Smoke!?

Nah, wrangling angry pixies and sniffing magic smoke is kinda my day-job. Nothing to "beware" of really, just keep one hand in your pocket and a fire extinguisher change of trousers believable excuse handy.

Bad Wolves

Not quite my jam, but close enough for government work. \m/

#4 Re: Off-topic » GNOME is taking the scum bag approach still... » 2025-07-12 18:47:08

There can be no offense when none is taken.

Or, to put it another another way...

"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended."
        — Linus Torvalds, 2012

#5 Re: Off-topic » Anyone have familiarity with GrapheneOS? » 2025-07-12 10:32:49

They were actually an intentional thing for a bit, back when active power-delivery negotiation specs were still a total mess.

If devices couldn't agree on a current limit, they would default to 100mA (which sucked), but there was a dumber standard that pretty much everything understood...
Bridging the data pins with a <200ohm resistor indicated a device was a charger that could deliver up to 1500mA, and it saved the manufacturer on both the power-delivery IC and the two extra wires.

This is supposed to happen inside the power supply/charger rather than a generic-looking cable of course, but Chinese manufacturers aren't exactly well-known for adhering to spec... So a few "magic" cables that would make your not-entirely-compatible (or just buggy) charger and device settle on an amp or so made it into the wild, as did cables that look like a standard USB cable but aren't, because they shipped with a charger and it saved a few cents to use normal connectors but only two wires.

I've made such cables myself, they're kinda handy if you want to get an old phone charger or powerbank to "just gimme power" for not-really-usb purposes (or blow fuses on old motherboards, to be tried only if you like fiddly soldering wink ).

All this went away with later USB specs and fast-charging, which mandate active negotiation.

#6 Re: Off-topic » Anyone have familiarity with GrapheneOS? » 2025-07-12 06:45:32

bloatware samsung

That is was easily fixed by flashing an AOSP-based bloatware (and touchwiz) free ROM, of which there are were many. These days that's a non-starter, as most modern samsung phones use their in-house (exynos) SOC, and that requires unobtainable proprietary modem firmware for VoLTE and 5G support.
You can still root and debloat the stock ROM, and that's still a serious improvement, but AOSP builds are kinda dead until someone reverse engineers the modem.

If you want a reasonably priced bootloader-unlockable phone that ships (mostly) bloat-free OOTB and works well with third-party AOSP builds, I suggest Motorola. They're also not bad to work on, for when you inevitably smash the LCD or need to replace a port.
Google works too of course, and third-party ROM support is probably the best of all... It's just the price that stings. I really don't need a high-end device, and I have no interest in "premium" features or 50 cameras.

worse than google

It's just the bloatware and custom UI really, and that can mostly be fixed if you're willing to root it (and trip knox). Hardware and build-quality wise, Samsung are pretty good.
It could be worse... Most cheap Chinese brands are bootloader-locked and unrootable, and some even ship literal malware in the stock OS.

look on amazon or something to see what data cable

Dude, seriously, just a plain-old USB cable. The kind that comes in the box with pretty much every tech gadget and multiplies in everyone's desk drawers.
So long as it has appropriate plugs for the things you want to connect it to (likely USB-A[male] -> USB-C[male]) and all the wires (i.e. not a "charging only" cable, if those even still exist), it'll be fine.

appreciate you being helpful on this matter. Its a nice change.

Well, you're not raging at the sky or slandering anyone in this thread. vOv

#7 Re: Off-topic » Anyone have familiarity with GrapheneOS? » 2025-07-12 02:46:12

what kind of cable is needed

A USB data cable, obviously. Same as you would use for ADB or fastboot any other time.

the steps needed to be taken

Same as flashing any other ROM, after doing whatever your hardware vendor requires to unlock the bootloader.
e.g. Enable debugging -> OEM unlock -> bootloader unlock -> reboot to fastboot -> fastboot flash [partition] [image file] (repeat as needed) -> reboot to recovery bootloader -> wipe /data ("factory reset") -> reboot to OS.

how to get it detected via webusb

Why? Just use fastboot and follow the instructions on the grapheneos site. They even give you a shell script so you don't have to go through each step manually.

know how to do this

On a pixel specifically, no. I'm not about to fork-out for any "flagship" phone, let alone one made by Google.
Aside from vendor specifics like bootloader unlocking, android is android, fastboot is fastboot, and flashing a rom is much the same as it ever was. If the install page is anything to go by, this one is about as uncomplicated and "vanilla" a flashing process as you could want.

#8 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Good X11 environment for laptops? Plasma 6 is not ideal » 2025-07-11 12:37:44

Andre4freedom wrote:

should first get to know what a three finger gesture is

Hmm... One finger is very rude, two fingers is "I can still shoot you", three fingers is... More fun? tongue

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

E.g. ctrl-alt-$something

Close... While those do often require 3 fingers... they're not "gestures".

pearmypie wrote:

trackpad gestures
...
multi touch gestures

Methinks OP is referring to those newfangled things you drag your phalanges around on smear grease all over. Sometimes they're part of the display so the grease blurs your terminal and you scratch the tube trying to wipe it off, but more often they're in the palmrest of a luggable so as to catch coffee and be as irritating as possible while you're trying to type.
Horrid idea all around if you ask me, but that's what the kids are into these days.

@OP: I have no idea, I hate trackpads with a passion. Best try it and find out, push-comes-to-shove just use touchegg or similar (which I expect you will need to build yourself) to convert hand-waving into proper keybinds. That should work with any DE or WM, and any action you can bind keys to (provided libinput supports multi-touch for your hardware to begin with).

As for X on laptops, sure... A thinkpad with real mouse buttons and a nipple nub whatever the red rubber thing is that makes it so I don't have to take my fingers off the keyboard to move the cursor around. wink

#9 Re: Off-topic » GNOME is taking the scum bag approach still... » 2025-07-11 09:18:32

gnome is developed by people either in the corporate employ and/or under corporate direction. I have honestly never understood or seen the point in it, but there it us.

Money, obviously. Mostly from RedHat, and a few other commercial entities with interest in a desktop GNU/Linux product. Having a cohesive, tightly controlled, recognisable GUI environment - one GUI environment - is a pretty big part of that, and cruical to offering the likes of RHEL for both servers and workstations. GNOME and freedesktop are RedHat these days, and systemd+wayland+pipewire+GNOME(+LGPL/MIT licencing) is what RedHat envisages a user-friendly, sellable and support(contract)-able Linux desktop to be.

Your only choice is to vote with your feet. As you will learn from the OpenBSD project: if you're not a developer, you don't get to make the decisions - we are "along for the ride".

Indeed... Though with FOSS the "developer or not" bit is still somewhat less black-and-white than it is with commercial software. You can patch or fork and be your own "developer" if you have the motivation, but often it's (artifically) difficult enough that "walk away, go do (or use) something else" is the smarter choice.

What these (relatively) modern "open source" organisations are doing is trying to have thier cake and eat it - i.e. benefit from free code by unpaid "not a developer" contributors, while also gatekeeping all the decision making. Come to think of it, much the same thing Redhat was trying to get rolling 20 years ago.
That's what most of the co-ordinated attacks on forks, alternatives, and even silly little things like application theming are really about. What's ours is ours, and what's yours is also ours, you will eat what we give you and be grateful. Because we have more money, more developers, and more to gain from branding and vendor lock-in. Politics is a smokescreen, it's all about image, money and control.
Oh look how they flip out when somebody, uninvited, dares to play with one of "their" bigger toys. See how quickly Godwin's law, cancel-culture, and plain-old slander are mobilised to shut it down. tongue

You can accept this situation as status-quo and get on with life, you can go somewhere that hasn't been infiltrated (yet) and hope it holds out, or you can wear the hair-shirt of "desktop GNU/Linux 15 years ago" (i.e. lots of choice, but also lots of work and lots of jank) by sticking with the original FOSS spirit and becoming a developer, amongst the many projects small enough and esoteric enough to escape notice and remain the domain of the true software nerds...

Or one can just rage ineffectually about it all I guess - but it won't achieve anything, and I'm pretty sure this board isn't meant as a therapy session.

#10 Re: Off-topic » GNOME is taking the scum bag approach still... » 2025-07-10 07:30:30

Why thank you, the donkey is a noble creature, hard-working and uncomplaining.
As for your respect... vOv? Do I sound like I care?

#11 Re: Off-topic » GNOME is taking the scum bag approach still... » 2025-07-10 07:12:43

I'll be nice to zapper just as soon as he stops calling people names. It's obnoxious.

Also, @blackhole: Ahh, a nice refreshing glass of reason in this desert of politics and vitriol. +∞

#12 Re: Devuan » Can't use MAKE command driver for installation » 2025-07-10 07:03:16

perhaps we might hypothesize we are interacting with ai/llm?

Sure reads like one, and I was gunna say it... But benefit of the doubt and all that. They could also just be a noob, copy-pasting the usual outdated blog-post garbage.

Then again, the Large-Regurgitation-Model hypothesis would neatly explain things like missing the "No longer maintained for kernel > 6.0.0" bit (it's an image, not plaintext), and the inane "Okay, great!  Thanks for next step!" reply (while clearly not understanding the advice)...

#13 Re: Off-topic » GNOME is taking the scum bag approach still... » 2025-07-10 06:53:56

Neither of those words are being used in their correct context.

Syntax matters when it comes to code quality, semantics and politics do not.

I don't know if I can trust alt righ twingers to do coding correctly.

I don't know if I can trust people who put more emphasis on politics, "red flags" and similar buzzword rhetoric, and linguistic hair-splitting than code quality to present a rational argument one way or the other.

isn't Xenocara also available

Sure. I await your reasoned (read: technical rather than political) argument for one over the other (also your xenocara debian packages, sans BSD-specific code) with bated breath.

toxic

Oooh, really filling out that buzzword-bingo card today, aren't we?

#14 Re: Devuan » Can't use MAKE command driver for installation » 2025-07-10 06:12:28

comborico1611 wrote:

I blacklisted the driver

You haven't compiled the replacement driver successfully yet, so blacklisting the in-kernel one is completely irrelevant at this point.

comborico1611 wrote:

I then resumed once again MAKE

Without addressing (or even reading it seems) what I posted above, so...

errors remain

Of course they do.

comborico1611 wrote:

No useful results on search engine for the errors given

I just told you what the compiler errors mean, a search engine won't tell you anything different - even of it has indexed that exact line, which it probably hasn't.

comborico1611 wrote:

Do I need to get A.I. involved

Nor will an Artificial Idiot. roll

comborico1611 wrote:

Any suggestions?

Already provided: Get a driver that is maintained and compatible with your kernel version... Or learn enough C and kernel programming to find and fix all the deprecated function calls in the broken one you seem determined to use.
One of these is easy, the other is hard. Your choice.

comborico1611 wrote:

Do I need to make blacklist-r8169.conf executable?

Uhh, whut? Why would that matter, it's a configuration file for modprobe. Try 'man modprobe' and 'man modprobe.d' instead of flailing randomly.

comborico1611 wrote:

If we work together, I think we can resolve the issue.

If you read the README in that github repo and followed the link, I expect you would have resolved this already by yourself.
The maintained driver repo even includes DKMS packaging instructions, which I suggest you follow so you get a .deb package and automatic rebuilds on kernel changes.

RedGreen925 wrote:

./configure, and ./make steps

Autoconf 'configure' scripts are stored in the source directory, but 'make' is a binary in system path. So './configure [--option]' and 'make [target]'.
In this case however...

RedGreen925 wrote:

I see nothing about the ./configure step being done.

The source in question does some (sort of) autoconf from the makefile (and a bunch of other crazy besides), there is no configure script.

RedGreen925 wrote:

where does this crazy line come from... try make instead

They did. Read the makefile. tongue

#15 Re: Devuan » Can't use MAKE command driver for installation » 2025-07-09 04:57:05

The answer is right there, in gigantic font, at the top of the README for the (archived) github repository you are cloning:

KERNEL > 6.0.0 NOT LONGER MAINTAIN
For kernel > 6.0.0, You should view https://github.com/lwfinger/rtw89

The module you are trying to compile references functions that no longer exist (at least under those names) in your installed (6.1.0) kernel. Either fix it yourself (out of scope here) or use a codebase that is maintained for current kernels.

#16 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » noCSD for GTK4 » 2025-06-30 01:20:07

Debian instructions wrt porting packages also apply to devuan, e.g. https://wiki.debian.org/CreatePackageFromPPA

#17 Re: Installation » How to Install XLibre on Devuan Daedalus (MATE)? » 2025-06-28 10:47:33

wrong thread pretty sure

What difference would it make, you do the same...

find fault

unusable

crap

it sucks

its a waste

Everywhere you go.

Then, if anyone should dare propose an improvement to this supposedly terrible situation, out comes the...

Why not try

I bet it could be done

I am not brave enough to try

You moan, but you do not do. You rubbish free software, but you do not work on it, even to help yourself. You insult groups and individuals, you belittle their achievements, but you will not even attempt works comparable to theirs.

Your sole contribution to a thread asking how to do a thing is to state that you're not brave enough to try, but someone else might... And even there, you misrepresent my statement.

In any case, I'm done with this thread, and I'm tired of the whinging and politics on this board in general. I'm currently running xlibre on Gentoo, and If anyone wants to try it on Devuan I invite you to read the extensive Debian packaging docs and figure it out.
Otherwise, feel free to hop over to a distro/board/irc channel with less moaning and more doing.

#18 Re: Installation » How to Install XLibre on Devuan Daedalus (MATE)? » 2025-06-28 04:25:43

What the hell is that?

The ongoing trend of endless talk about politics, ideology, and trivia such as the personality of individual contributors or wording of a readme, all while "hoping" "someone" (else) will do the real work.

There is no "brave enough" in software development, and there is no danger in trying.
If you put as much energy into learning to compile or contribute to projects that you claim interest you as you do political ranting, you might even have some substance (i.e. technical points) to add to your usual "I hate [x], because feels/language/supposed power imbalance" nonsense.

Don't like "frog animations" (or whatever latest pointless rant was about)? Easy, don't look at them. Do something constructive instead.
Think xenocera is a better option for Devuan than xlibre? Cool, why not spend that energy compiling them on Devuan, testing them, and making a convincing case for one over the other?

You constantly spit bile at people and projects you don't like, yet those people and projects have, undeniably, made something. What have you made, besides noise?
You insult GNOME devs, but those GNOME devs made a complete desktop environment and gave it away for free, to all and sundry. You call youtubers you disagree with "parasites",  yet even they put effort into learning video production and built a following... Where's your channel? Where's your competitor for gnome or wayland?

The real "Irony, irony, irony" here is that you depend entirely on software built by others, to insult the people who build such software.
IOW, define:parasite

#19 Re: Installation » How to Install XLibre on Devuan Daedalus (MATE)? » 2025-06-26 05:33:11

Cut us some slack, give us time to catch up...we all have busy lives outside of linux.

Oh that wasn't meant for you, you're making things. It was for the "I bet it could be done", "not brave enough", "I do hope that SOMEONE will", "above my pay grade", "Perhaps you would like to" bikeshedding crowd.

#20 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Installer *.iso problems - again ... » 2025-06-26 05:05:08

arm64.iso

Sun Ultra 24

The Ultra 24 is amd64, what on earth made you think an arm kernel would boot on it? They're completely different architectures.

#21 Re: Installation » How to Install XLibre on Devuan Daedalus (MATE)? » 2025-06-25 10:54:02

I hear steve_v was trying to compile it for that purpose.

I don't know if he did.

I built Xlibre on Gentoo, because that's my main these days and the only Devuan installs I have are headless servers I'm not about to screw around with for something they wouldn't even use.
There is now an overlay hosted at github.com/X11Libre/ports-gentoo, so trying it on Gentoo is no more difficult than installing any other live build.

I see no reason the xlibre devs would be against a similar arrangement for Devuan, were somebody with an appropriate build environment to adapt the Xorg spec files and build test packages. That shouldn't be particularly difficult to do (though personally I find the Debian packaging workflow somewhat convoluted and unpleasant), since the project structure is still very close to Xorg.

I mean I could probably do it in a VM or chroot, but not to put too fine a point on it... That's a lot of mucking about and the lack of effort from anyone else around here (who, unlike me, stand to benefit directly) isn't particularly motivating.

#22 Re: Off-topic » GNOME is taking the scum bag approach still... » 2025-06-21 14:34:10

being very harsh.

scum bag... stupid... arrogant... a-hole... fascist...
Oh wait, that wasn't me saying those things, was it.

#23 Re: Off-topic » GNOME is taking the scum bag approach still... » 2025-06-21 13:57:46

I bet it could be done in devuan too.

Exactly this ^
You claim Xenocara is "the best option", but offer no technical arguments or comparisons to back it up. You claim it "could be done", but don't actually do it, even just for testing, even just for yourself.
You claim Xlibre "could be good", but you haven't tried building or using it... And your "doubts" are vague aspersions on the lead developers politics, rather than a technical assessment.

Why not try compiling that?

Why don't you try compiling that, if it's a project you want to promote?

As usual, it's all just talk, all just pontificating on what other people should or shouldn't do, passing judgement on people you have never met, and minor variations of "xyz developers I don't know are assholes/scumbags/[insert insult here]".
Go contribute to the project in question, go work with the people concerned... Then maybe you get to call them names. Raging from afar is pointless and childish, regardless of how easy it is to spit at a faceless organisation you have no real contact with.

I for one do not give a fat rat's behind about the "principles in place" or whether or not the lead developer is a [facist|furry|wears a gimp suit on sundays], I care about ability, technical merit, and whether or not a piece of software is a: solving the problem at hand, and b: copyleft licenced so it can be forked if needed.
If something looks interesting, I'll try it. If there aren't distro packages yet, I'll build it. If it's promising, I might even try to contribute to it. I'm not an accomplished C/C++ coder by any stretch, but you don't always need to be to contribute in a useful way - case in point, even building and testing on different platforms can be productive, assuming you report any bugs you find.

So, how's Xenocera working out for you on $distro_of_choice? Any problems getting the code built? Any bugs to report or technical suggestions to pass upstream?

Ed. Thought that might happen... While I'm still trying to solve a bunch of nonsensical GPU crashes (result: not Xlibre's fault, it's a power management bug in the amdgpu kernel driver), Stefan goes live with an Xlibre-git overlay for any clown to try it out.
This is why I've largely moved over to Gentoo, where the arguments are just a smoke-screen for sneakily getting stuff done.

#24 Re: Off-topic » GNOME is taking the scum bag approach still... » 2025-06-21 01:04:56

Packaging for Devuan... Not me, I don't run any Devuan desktops, and headless/CLI installs don't need any of this. For Gentoo OTOH... Hold my beer (If I don't get beaten to the punch that is, which I likely will).
That's all contingent on the Xlibre project not imploding under the mass of reddit-warrior attention of course, but so far so promising.

#25 Re: Off-topic » GNOME is taking the scum bag approach still... » 2025-06-21 00:35:34

brocashelm wrote:

I know I could just compile, but I'd rather trust an experienced packager

Well somebody has to actually test the thing, no? If we all just sit around waiting for the magical pixies to do everything, nothing gets done.

I VIL not install Wayland and I VIL be happy.

To be fair, wayland is *mostly* usable... But my own year-or-so living with it came to an end fairly recently, because upstream apparently has no interest whatsoever in getting from "mostly" to "fully" usable, or considering any use-case beyond "works for normie tasks on my laptop/corpo-drone workstation".
Every single proposition or pull request furthering feature-parity with X11 or backwards compatibility of any kind results in endless stonewalling, recursive arguments, and NIH bullshit. One can smell the "Desktop Linux belongs to us, toe the line or GTFO" excreta dribbling down from Redhat and IBM suits a mile away.

So back to a display server that works it is... And FUD aside, Xorg still does.
Not "works if you use the right compositor on the right day of the week".
Not "works if the app you want to use has been updated in the last 5 minutes".
And certainly not "works if you squint a bit and ignore broken DPI scaling, janky session restore, buggy clipboards, screwed up window placement, missing features, and general dogs breakfast of competing, poorly concieved, partly implemented protocols"...
No, Xorg *just works*. It even works for 20 year old software, with minimal (and often no) changes... Imagine that. roll

So far, I can't really tell the difference between Xorg and Xlibre from an end-user POV, which is exactly as it should be.
Meanwhile, the "X is insecure" apocalypse is still stubbornly failing to materialise. I'm sure it sucks for somebody somewhere when reality gets all uncooperative like that. tongue

I'll be keeping a dual-stack around in case wayland ever grows up (15 years and counting), but I'm not going to hold my breath.

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