You are not logged in.
Only the UUID is checked by the system when the UUID= is used in the fstab.
Filsystem uuids will end up in in grub.cfg if you use grub-mkconfig / update grub and haven't set GRUB_DISABLE_LINUX_UUID=true, and GRUB will pass them to the kernel and initramfs before fstab is read.
Partition and disk uuids are, as you say, irrelevant (unless you specifically choose to use partuuid as a search hint for grub)
they cannot live in the same box unless one of the drives gets new UUIDs.
If you're referencing them by UID. If you're using something else (e.g. filesystem label) it won't matter... until you inevitably forget about this and it bites you in the arse years later.
I think (?) that is the case even if they are not in each other's /etc/fstab file.
Whatever you use to differentiate the disks needs to be unique, otherwise you will get random (or more accurately, timing/initialisation order sensitive) behaviour.
The most entertaining effect is where you load the kernel and initramfs from one drive, but it mounts the root partition on the other. Unless you have set things up differently, grub, initramfs and fstab will all be using filesystem uuids.
I have only done it on HDDs with a single partition.
What does number of partitions per drive have to do with anything? Partitions and filesystems should all have unique ids if you want them to be uniquely identifiable, that is all.
Partition uuids can be changed with gdisk (GPT) or fdisk (MBR), filesystem uuid (assuming ext[2,3,4]) with tune2fs. The latter is the only one that matters.
What's wrong with it?
It's proprietary, so who really knows?
"Negative feelings" about closed-source browsers and packages that are not compliant with Debian free-software guidelines or packaging policy, on the discussion board for a Debian-based FOSS distribution, are not particularly surprising.
It's no worse than Chrome, is it?
That's really not a very high bar to pass, typhoid is "no worse" than lung cancer, but I for one don't want either.
Brave and the like are at least open-source, so any dubious "features" are readily inspect-able.
Anybody know how to get rid of?
apt purge vivaldi-stable...probably. Assuming the package didn't do anything else idiotic in postinst. It doesn't appear to, but I didn't look very hard.
Discover
Is a janky PoS at the best of times (ditto packagekit in general). Use apt at the CLI, or if you must have a GUI, synaptic.
It puts the browser in the opt directory and nowhere is there to be found a gpg key. They install a cron job file which when trying to look at has nothing in it so it is a bit of a mystery what it does.
Everything is inline in the package postinst script, the repository configuration and key signature (base64, for reasons) are piped into the config files... Because of course that's how they do it - it's the best way to fuck around with the system (making sure their browser is the very highest priority in alternatives for example) and "support" multiple distros with a single .deb.
The crontab file is a symlink to /opt/vivaldi/cron/vivaldi, which is a copy-paste from the postinst and apparently rewrites the apt configuration and keys every day... Again, reasons, presumably. ![]()
Proprietary vendors are all the same when it comes to packaging, total disregard for established standards. Everything that can be an executable script is, windows lets vendors screw around however they like and execute whatever they want so that's how it must be done everywhere.
You have third-party repos with missing signing keys, so apt is (rightly) ignoring them.
See the Debian wiki and apt-secure(8). apt-key was removed in trixie/excalibur, any "guides" on the net that mention it are out-of-date.
For brave, you might want to try extrepo.
As for Vivaldi, their website claims that after installing the the .deb package "our Linux update repositories will be configured automatically for you to receive updates".
Personally I doubt this "Users are stupid so we don't give technical details, just click button and we'll handle everything" corpo-speak bullshit, but I'm not about to install the thing to find out.
AFAICT, this is pretty much what should be on that page WRT repo setup and key import. The security implications of using /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d as in this example are explained in the wiki above.
I don't use either of these packages myself, so YMMV. Frankly why people need multiple "privacy" browsers proprietary and/or crypto nonsense packing chrome forks from third-party sources rather than just configuring the tested offerings in the stable repos to their liking is beyond me, but whatever. vOv.
Also, as always, DonkBreakDe[bi|vu]an. Note comment on "other repositories created to distribute single applications".
arrogant and self-centered assumption
OP has 3 topics at this point, all whinging, and all full of the above.
Apparently any configuration choice (so far: root filesystem, partition layout, network configuration tools, boot media, DNS server / protocol, terminal emulator) that doesn't perfectly align with their preferences is some sort of "showstopper" disaster and/or conspiracy. ![]()
What is expected
...
What is expected
...
What is expected
Is for you to:
a) Grow up, and realise that this is not Arch, it's a stable, general purpose distribution under no obligation whatsoever to embrace the newest shiny thing or cater to your peculiar tastes.
b) Post your commands and any "bunch of cryotic[sic] errors" encountered, verbatim and without shouting. Assuming you actually want assistance that is.
This is the bug report for Devuan 6 Excalibur installer
No, this is a bunch of whining and factually incorrect nonsense. Bug reports are submitted with reportbug or by email.
What is DOT ?
DNS over TLS, AKA a somewhat less retarded attempt to break the 'net than DoH, from the usual paranoia crowd who think moving trust from their ISP to some other random entity (usually Google or Cloudflare) is progress.
you wouldn't allow plain text DNS querries, would you?
DNS is handled on my router, because I have a brain.
I don't understand this behavior of nm
Then you should probably ask RedHat, Devuan didn't write NetworkMangler.
I looked for "stubby-openrc" but cannot find it.
What makes you think someone else should write your init scripts for you?
The stubby package comes with a sysvinit script, because that's the default init. OpenRC is supported, but you don't get everything handed to you on a silver platter.
If you want an openrc init script, swiping it from Artix will probably work without too much modification. Otherwise, writing your own isn't complicated.
THIS IS A COMPLETE SHOWSTOPPER FOR ME.
Huh, what a coincidence. Shouting is a complete showstopper for me providing any kind of spoon feeding step-by-step instructions.
Your help is going to be immensly appreciated.
With the entitled and confrontational attitude you've displayed in all your posts so far, I'll be surprised if you get much of that.
Can you expand on why the installer doesn't work with Ventoy
Specifically, no. I never cared enough to look into it. More generally:
There are about 50 different ways to build a bootable hybrid image, and most of them rely on the initramfs being able to find and loop-mount the image somehow.
That mechanism (and what kind of device and/or filesystem is searched) varies widely from one distro to another. They are looking for their image in their format on their filesystem... Not whatever "USB Maker 3000" decided to do.
Ventoty has a bunch of special-casing hacks to make this work, just not for Devuan.
The image boots fine from a raw device as intended, so this is a Ventoy problem for Ventoy to fix... If anyone actually cares that is.
Multi-boot USB drives are a hack, they've always been a hack, and it's not really on iso builders to pander to them.
is that best suited for a separate topic
Sure, but you'll need better bait to nerd-snipe me on that one. Bootloaders and initramfs scripts are tedious to test at the best of times, and 'need install media (once every 5 years at best)' x 'too lazy to fish out an old $2 4GiB USB' = 'nanoscopic fleck of motivation'.
This particular nonsense is wrong on every level:
exFAT errors have nothing to do with the installer.
The installer doesn't use exFAT.
Even if it did, the Linux implementation is GPL, not proprietary or closed-source.
The exFAT spec and related patents were released in 2019, so it's not secret and not strictly owned by Microsoft (any more).
The Devuan installer doesn't depend on any "reverse-engineered propriatary [sic] garbage", poor or otherwise.
Even if we broaden "installer" to include the kernel, any included drivers are either clean GPL implementations or third-party binary-blobs, neither are "reverse engineered" from proprietary code.
And for bonus points: Devuan is not "incapable of booting from ext4", ext4 is in fact the default filesystem.
That said, it still isn't a very good example of fractal wrongness, but that's a term I don't get to use very often, so... ![]()
---
To return to the (well disguised as an unhinged rambling rant) original questions:
The installer does not currently support f2fs, largely because it's an uncommon choice outside of mobile phones and SD cards, so nobody cares enough to implement it. It is also still considered experimental by many distros, upstream Debian included.
If you want f2fs root, you do you. There are guides on the 'net, but I'd expect an Arch/Artix user (BTW) to already be quite familiar with manual installation.
The default swap partition size is just that, a default. If you don't like it, change it.
If you don't know your own wireless SSID and finding out is "impossible", I really don't know what to say.
If you don't like the terminal emulators provided with the kde-desktop task, change them. Or install only the stuff you want on the base system rather than using tasksel from the installer.
The installer is not compatible with Ventoy (or more to the point, Ventoy hasn't implemented support for it among all its other distro-specific hacks), this is why Ventoy is conspicuously not listed under the instructions for making install media.
Bonus snark:
You asked about current stable version codname. I assumed it was 'Excalibur'.
Oh come on, "Excalibur" is not a species of cod, now is it? Pelagic cod, Atlantic cod, Rock cod, Excalibur cod? I think not.
Nobody is using it anymore. It's an ancient history.
Bullshit.
The only viable option for nand-flash storage is f2fs.
Complete and utter bullshit.
Do you know your SSID by heart?
Yes.
The installer cannot be booted when put on ext4 filesystem.
The installation image is ISO-hybrid, you're supposed to write it directly to a block device.
ExFAT... I assume installer is dependent on propriatary, closed source, secret code filesystem by Microsoft.
There's wrong, and then there's fractally wrong.
I assume
You are mistaken. Follow the instructions and write the .iso to an unformatted raw block device or optical media with dd or wodim.
If you insist on doing your own thing WRT install media and filesystems, because "other distros, blah, blah", that's up to you... And you get to keep all the pieces when it inevitably doesn't work.
"defaults" ought to start with the lowest common denominator
s/lowest/most/g
it ought to work perfectly on older hardware
It does, <50MiB of memory is trivial on any readily available consumer hardware outside of embedded platforms - and if you're deploying on those you're going to be pulling more tricks than this.
Users with better hardware are then free to bolster their system with various speed tweaks if needed.
Users with antique hardware are free to bolster their system with various memory-conserving tweaks if needed.
Wasting memory is just that, but trading memory for speed is a more subtle question and more often than not it's a net positive. Something that is a net positive for the majority of use cases (4GB RAM or 32bit haven't been that for a decade) is a good candidate for default configuration.
This is moot WRT Devuan in any case, because the defaults haven't changed since they inherited the init scripts from Debian.
They're both solid-state, there won't be a noticeable difference.
Main memory latency is measured in nanoseconds, while even the fastest NVME SSDs are in the tens of microseconds. On older storage technology the gap is considerably larger.
An order of magnitude is "not noticeable"? That must be why Solaris started putting /tmp in RAM around 1994.
there's lots of people running old hardware with low ram that need the extra. Not everybody has 32-64 gigs of ram
We're talking about Debian turning this on by default, not forcing you to use it. The vast majority of Debian (and GNU/Linux in general) deployments are servers, where 32GB is generally considered low-end. Setting the default to suit that use case while having minimal impact** on everyone else is perfectly reasonable.
Most mobile phones have more than 4GB of RAM these days, if you want to use antique hardware, that's cool... But expecting defaults in a general purpose distro to be tailored for that is ridiculous.
**
Devuan server, manual max size set, 38MB used:
tmpfs 2.0G 38M 2.0G 2% /tmpOh noes, 0.03% of precious RAM wasted on my 14 year old hardware.
My Gentoo desktop does not currently have /tmp in RAM, because I have a tendency to compile stuff there and old (bad) habits die hard.
The tmpfs functionality is not mysterious, but this thread kinda is:
a) We begin with a swearing rant about Debian, rather than reading the man pages or conf file where this is all explained.
b) Two people in a row go with "I don't know", rather than just doing 'grep -r tmpfs /etc/' and finding out.
Some days I really wonder if this whole board isn't just a place to bitch about upstreams, other distros, and anyone who ever dared to change anything.
Here I was thinking "other issues" was for questions and technical support.
So is this in Devuan too?
It's optional, same as it always was:
# mount /tmp as a tmpfs. Defaults to no; set to yes to enable (/tmp
# will be part of the root filesystem if disabled). /tmp may also be
# configured to be a separate mount in /etc/fstab.
#RAMTMP=no50% of my ram by default... i'm too f***ing sure, how do they come up with this bullshit?
They "come up with this", because it's a thing many other distros do by default and many users used to do manually, which reduces SSD writes and improves latency for applications that make frequent use of /tmp.
"50% of my ram" is a default upper limit, actual memory consumption for tmpfs (unlike a traditional ramdisk) is dynamic.
On most systems /tmp is only a few MiB, and has negligible impact on available memory. If you want to stash huge files there for some reason, simply disable or configure it to your liking. See man tmpfs(5). Note that as per FHS, /tmp is not expected to survive a reboot either way.
im not sure where the hard coded settings for tmpfs are
/lib/init/tmpfs.sh, which is called from /etc/init.d/mountall.sh, which is illuminated by a couple of seconds with grep. I'm not sure what the big mystery here is.
about:config option to disable it?
For ML in firefox itself, about:config -> browser.ml.enable
What your search engine of choice does is another matter, having nothing at all to do with the browser, because:
FireFox/ddg
Are two separate entities, obviously.
Also, direct comment from firefox dev WRT disabling ML features in future here. Apparently they actually listened for once when we all said "please give us a simple toggle not buried in about:config."
"Quality control" WRT Debian and/or Devuan releases isn't about upstream software having bugs or not... It's whether buggy upstream versions are packaged for stable.
This is why we have the unstable -> testing -> stable workflow - packages that have serious bugs shouldn't be making it through testing... And they sure as hell shouldn't be the first thing a user interacts with in a release livecd or default install.
This particular bug in SLiM was raised in the excalibur RCs, and hasn't been satisfactorily addressed (nor has the one I reported). Those bugs existing is on upstream, but SLiM still being the default greeter despite them is a Devuan decision, and by extension, a Devuan problem.
Upstream bugs are not a distribution issue. Software selection, packaging, and sane defaults are.
If Devuan wants to package a different default desktop setup from Debian, the lack of QC on that setup is not something that can be blamed on Debian.
They use lightdm for their XFCE live image, did anyone think to ask why, or are we all too busy trying to deflect blame for the rushed, poorly tested, perpetually janky live releases?
SLiM is a mess, and has been for years. Stop using it as the default greeter. Problem solved. ![]()
it is harder to use "mkusb" program on Devuan/Debian nowadys
mkusb is an Ubuntu specific tool, so that's not particularly surprising.
The closest you will get to a "universal" bootable-media tool is ventoy, which should run fine on Devuan.
"USBImager"... "ddCopy"
both provide .deb packages which will very likely work on Devuan. Have you tried them?
format SDcard or USB to standard FAT32
mkfs.fat -F32 /dev/[whatever]Why on earth do we need a GUI for this?
Similarly, for writing single hybrid images to removable media, dd or cp work just as well as they always have.
03: Probably chipset power management. You don't say what (if any) sound server you are using or provide any details of your audio hardware, so generic answers assuming pulseaudio it is: here, and here. TLDR: Disable audio device PM, first for the sound server, and if that doesn't solve it do the same by passing the relevant parameter for (whatever hardware you have) as module options or via sysfs.
09: Again assuming pulseaudio: get sinks with 'pactl list-sinks', put 'set-default-sink [index you found with pactl]' in /etc/pulse/default.pa (see e.g. here)...
Or use a less gimped DE that has a GUI for configuring this and persists settings across logins.
If you're running pipewire the answers are similar, STW for correct config syntax.
10: If they're standard keys (i.e. not some vendor-specific nonsense), get the scancodes with xev - then assign them to do something with XKB or xmodmap... Or use a less gimped DE which supports media keys directly and provides a GUI for configuring them.
If they are special vendor-specific voodoo (i.e. xev doesn't spit out a scancode), they might emit ACPI events instead - for which there is acpid.
The rest: All XFCE problems. I don't use XFCE, I don't like XFCE, and I have no idea why it is the default desktop since it's not even particularly "lightweight" these days.
I used to use VirtualBox - why was it crap?
It isn't. It's just a pain in the arse to package for and maintain in debian. "crap" is an assumption from those too lazy to investigate why it was dropped from the repos, a "sour grapes" justification from those too inept to work around that removal, or...
It called crap by the users of kvm/qemu, VMware, Proxmox etc that only consider their tooling as approriate. Others complain about the license Oracle is using. Others don't like to use a Oracle product ..... I am happy to use it for 13 years now
Indeed, and while the fully FOSS options are arguably better in many situations, there are a few corners where virtualbox still pulls ahead - IME those being a mature and fully featured GUI, and somewhat superior (primarily graphics) performance for windows guests.
It's also properly cross-platform (which kvm is not) and free (which vmware is not), so for the casual user who wants their VMs to be portable between different host systems without a bunch of faffing around it's rather convenient.
Oracle wants people to use the latest version of VirtualBox rather than the Debian way, which is to apply patches to an older version of VirtualBox.
That's the primary concern (i.e. oracle not cooperating wrt backporting fixes), and it's exacerbated by the licencing making it very difficult for debian maintainers to do such backporting themselves.
As such, "stable" (and secure) virtualbox versions cannot be maintained in the debian (and by extension devuan) stable repos, but current upstream releases are still available in unstable.
The simplest solution (unless/until it appears in trixie-fasttrack) is to either use the upstream release .debs or backport it from unstable yourself.
Would any harm be done to SATA hard drives or their contents if run with their power cables connected but with the SATA data cables disconnected?
No.
That said, a) You needn't worry about data loss because anyone with a shred of sense has backups, and b) It's far easier to simply disable the port in BIOS.
OpenBSD, it has no bluetooth stack
Really? They still don't have bluetooth?
I get OpenBSD having not-desktop priorities, but FFS, bluetooth came out in 1998.
you just use an old HP PC as a sound server that runs all that hardware?
I wanted something that I could put my Auzentech card in (because excellent sound quality, socketed opamps, sufficiently high output level to directly drive power amp without needing a preamp), that means a 32bit PCI slot, which means kinda old (i.e. ~sandybridge).
Ended up with *goes to look* an HP RP5800, which being a POS machine has the added advantage of powered-USB (12 & 24v) so I can do power+data for the touchscreen with a single cable.
Mopidy/MPD control is via webui (local touchscreen or remote), android app, or cantata on another PC. Sources are FLAC files over SMB from my (also Devuan) fileserver.
IMO a HiFi is for music (also, I haven't owned a TV for over a decade), so this setup does exactly what it needs to do and no more.
I did play around with a raspberry pi + DAC hat, but frankly the Auzentech just sounds better (primarily because it has real analog volume control).
Ive always favored Denon
I don't really do the brand-loyalty (excepting a minor soft-spot for '70's Sansui, reminding me to get on with fixing that AU9500) or "big name / big money must sound good" bit, I just mix and match what works and let my ears (and when it comes to amplifiers, my 'scope) be the judge.
I honestly have no idea what that 350W amp cost me to build, but it's probably getting up around a couple grand... A price worth paying for something with that much grunt and the ultimate (I built it, so I can always fix it) in serviceability and simplicity - No frills, no digital nonsense, just power and line-level in, speaker level out, a power button and one status light.
The rest is an assortment of opportunistic mostly second-hand purchases, dumpster-diving, and "screw it, nobody makes what I want, I'll just build it".
I don't know how you survived going from a 3K hifi to a portable bluetooth speaker, that sounds kinda painful TBH. If it's space at a premuim... Do speakers not take priority over bed, chair, kitchen table, other optional furniture? ![]()
Main Rig:
Source: Random HP SFF POS machine, salvaged industial touchscreen, Auzentech X-Meridian 7.1 2G PCI soundcard, running Mopidy + webui kiosk on Devuan (curently oldoldstable).
Amp: Homebuilt 2U rackmount class A/B power amp, ~350WPC x2, based on Silicon Chip magazine Studio 350 project.
Main drivers: Cerwin Vega E315.
Subwoofer: 15" Cerwin Vega (I forget the model, onboard amp died and replaced with 200W class-D mosfet board I also forget the details of).
All old-school analog, all brute-force, pleasantly low noise and THD (the lousy sub amp doesn't count, it's a sub).
PC rig (not Devuan):
Source: Onboard analog audio (realtek ALC1220).
Amp: Homebuilt class A/B power amp, ~60WPC x2, based on Elliot Sound Products project 3A.
Drivers: JPW ML510
an SSD is basically a very large USB stick
More like several "USB stick"s in RAID0, with dedicated DRAM cache (or host RAM cache if you're a cheapskate) and a far more intelligent controller.
I wonder if the internal temperature sensor is available through the interface?
Usually, though what it's called varies by manufacturer.
Does hddtemp work with SSDs?
Assuming it reads data from the usual sources, I don't see why not. Honestly I have no idea why people want some dedicated tool like hddtemp just to print data already available in sysfs or via smartmontools.