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#1 2023-05-04 18:34:45

nahkhiirmees
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Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

Long story short:has anyone here tried installing Devuan into that machine mentioned in the subject? How should i configure the UEFI/BIOS before installation for example? Are there some kind of options i should enter into the boot prompt before going to expert install?

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2023-05-04 19:21:13)

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#2 2023-05-04 18:51:32

nahkhiirmees
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Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

I spent last night fighting with aforementioned combination. The actual install process went relatively easy. Copy contents of Devuan 4 netinst dvd into usb stick, with dd, after that when you finally manage to get into the boot menu, it is pretty straightforward. After the install there were all kinds of complications.

First i noticed that there is no sudo. Well, "Ubuntu-style sudo" is annoying but i would like to be able to say:"sudo /sbin/shutdown -h now" instead of "su -"+"/sbin/shutdown -h now". So i'll copy the .deb -file containg sudo and some other files from desktop to stick and from stick to laptop.
After some tweaking i decide it is time to "/sbin/ifup eth0" and after that "apt-get update;apt-get upgrade -u". Then apt starts to complain. I remember "oh yes, the iptables rules could be outdated, lets edit them so that the name servers of my ISP are included". Then "nefilter-persistent restart". Still apt complains. And i notice that the rules haven't changed. OK, i'll say "/usr/sbin/iptables-restore /etc/iptables/rules.v4" . Now the dns-rules are ok, apt doesn't complain.

When trying to install stubby there were some complaints. So i edit the configuration files and create necessary users. Something else caught my attention so i forgot stubby for a while,

Finally i get to log into x . I say "su -" so that i can do some things, including editing sudoers for that shutdown-thing. I can't get in as root. I guess i remember the password wrong. So i reboot with install stick and enter rescue mode and change the password. I have to do that 4 times in a row and still can't get in as root.
I can be clumsy sometimes but not that clumsy. And there were also an episode where something went wrong with grub. Not sure why, but i didn't get into grub menu. Fortunately i manage to enter commands to load grub.cfg from /boot-partition.

When the sun rises i have become so exhausted that i decide to go to sleep and continue fighting another day.
No sure if i got stubby working or not.

There were always something. But I like to think that the situation is not hopeless.
I already did some searching with Google and duckduckgo but haven't found anything useful yet.

UEFI settings are 1 line of investigation and commandline options another. And trying more recent version of Devuan the third.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2023-05-04 19:50:17)

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#3 2023-05-04 19:20:47

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

I am planning to re-install Devuan into my desktop also. Unfortunately this time it is a bit difficult to copy the contents of desktop's hd into laptops SSD.
The ssd doesn't have SATA connector. I think it's m.2 or something like that.

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#4 2023-05-04 19:46:10

nahkhiirmees
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Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

Actually there is some "real work" that i need to get done. So now it is not a best time for fighting against this particular hardware+software-combination.
But it's bugging me.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2023-05-04 19:47:23)

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#5 2023-05-04 23:35:14

ralph.ronnquist
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From: Battery Point, Tasmania, AUS
Registered: 2016-11-30
Posts: 1,171  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

It won't help a lot but I just checked and reaffirmed that the ISO devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_amd64_netinstall.iso does indeed contain sudo_1.9.5p2-3_amd64.deb in its package pool. I.e., it should have been installable without ado (assuming you retained to soures.list line for accessing the on-ISO package pool)

But, if you want to install without network I would suggest you rather use either the "server" or the "desktop" ISOs which are intended for that kind of use cases. It is the same installer on all of them but they come with different collections of installable packages so as to support different "full" end-user installations.

The base system, which is the same on all, is just a so called "minbase" debootstrap (with a couple of extras). It serves as a starting point for installing the chosen end-user flavour and is not really intended to be an installation end-point.

No biggie of course, but it is slightly misleading for other people when you stop there and then say that you have installed Devuan smile I mean, when you raise issues relative to that but talk about it as if it was a full end-user Devuan installation, then it just brings confusion as to what "Installing Devuan" typically means.

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#6 2023-05-05 00:03:18

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

Oh yes, i found the lack of sudo weird, that's why i mentioned it. I thought that it would come with netinst, but after the installation i got complaints about that command. Didn't find /etc/sudoers either. So maybe the netinst disk was scratched or the stick was faulty or something completely different.

And netfilter-persistent not doing what it was supposed to, that was weird also.
I had a similar experience during 2008. Debian 4 install disk had kernel 2.6.18 which was not new enough for the hardware i had then. Had to wait until 2.6.24, if i remember correctly. That kernel co-operated with the hardware i had.

Maybe i'll try installing D again into that Fujitsu. But now it is not a good time for that.

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#7 2023-05-05 10:22:57

stopAI
Member
Registered: 2023-04-04
Posts: 138  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

nahkhiirmees wrote:

Oh yes, i found the lack of sudo weird, that's why i mentioned it. I thought that it would come with netinst, but after the installation i got complaints about that command. Didn't find /etc/sudoers either. So maybe the netinst disk was scratched or the stick was faulty or something completely different.
Maybe i'll try installing D again into that Fujitsu. But now it is not a good time for that.

I don't really understand what the problem is? It's not difficult to log in as the user "root", install package sudo ((if this package was not installed), and type command (as root)

adduser foo sudo

where "foo" is your user name. Logout and log in with your user name. And sudo will be activated.

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#8 2023-05-05 14:26:51

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

nahkhiirmees wrote:

Long story short:has anyone here tried installing Devuan into that machine mentioned in the subject? How should i configure the UEFI/BIOS before installation for example? Are there some kind of options i should enter into the boot prompt before going to expert install?

So have anyone here tried to install into that machine mentioned in the subject? Is it enough just to enable boot menu and disable secureboot? Or are there other settings i should change before install? And how about those commandline options?

Just in case of scratched dvd or crappy usb stick, i'll buy new ones, hoping that at least 1 of them works. And download latest iso for a new attempt.
But i have to say, the process have been more difficult than usual.
The machine boots and i can log into it, as a normal user. X works also. But that's all there is to it.
This week i was supposed to install Docker and do some things with it. But without root password it is challenging to install anything.
And if i cannot trust that nefilter-persistent works , maybe i shouldn't connect rj45-cable at all.

BTW, which one is considered a worse blasphemy here? Installing Ubuntu or installing Windows?
Just kidding.

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#9 2023-05-05 16:35:38

rolfie
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Registered: 2017-11-25
Posts: 1,105  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

My two cents:
1.) The sudo issue
I am talking about the installer in expert mode. I am only using this mode since I am experienced enough to understand where the possible problems are, and I know what to expect and where I can tweak the installations.
The installer gives you the choice to enable the root account with an administrative password. Then sudo is not installed. When you think you need the sudo package, you have to add that package after first boot into the system.
If you deny a root password, sudo is getting installed, and you have to use it the Ubuntu way for admin tasks. When you do not like this, you can assign a password to root and then login as root or use su -.
2.) My experience with EFI
I have several modern PCs that partially have pure EFI bios like my laptop, some older ones (AMD X470/X570) still have CSM as backup. I am installing them in pure EFI mode, SB is disabled and the keys are getting deleted. I never had any trust in SB. CSM is off an all these machines. No other setting needs to be changed. My laptop was something special, an Acer Aspire5. To be able to modify the Bios settings, I had first of all to set an admin PW for the Bios.
Chimaera should be able to be installed with and without SB. You just have to boot the installer in EFI mode. Note: you will typically get the boot medium twice in the boot override: one is marked with the comment EFI, make sure you use this one. The other just shows the device name, thats for installation in legacy mode.
No idea about the HW in the Lifebook, and if some components are too new for stock Chimaera. If stock Chimaera does not satisfy, the first step would be to add kernel and firmware from backports.
3.) You are using the expert installer. Make sure you load the installer components. This is one of the first steps past selecting the language settings. If you skip that step you will get very limited install options, e.g. you ext2 as file system, no ext3/4 options.

Good luck.

Edith: just had a look at some test reports for this device. You should be fine with stock Chimaera.

Last edited by rolfie (2023-05-05 20:08:34)

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#10 2023-05-06 17:10:12

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

One thing i noticed while going through UEFI settings:it has been updated last ... december. So in theory that update could have complicated the process.

Now i have new stick for round #2. First I thought that i'll copy Daedalus into it. But i can't find SHA256SUMS or SHA256SUMS.asc in https://files.devuan.org/devuan_daedalus/installer-iso/ . What's up with that?
Maybe i''l stick to Chimaera for now  and confirm that the dvd's i have are intact before dd.

Lack of sudo was 1 thing that made me think that there's something wrong with install medium. Problems with /e/i.d/netfilter-persistent and stubby another.
I also find "Ubuntu-style-sudo or no sudo at all"-attitude bit childish. Or i'm just not that much into Manowar smile

Let's see how it goes this time.
It is not first time that i use Devuan/Debian netinst cd/dvd or expert mode. But it seems that i have been installing too much into easy hardware.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2023-05-07 04:07:22)

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#11 2023-05-07 03:58:45

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

More successful attempt this time.
I can log in as root. And as a normal user.
But i cannot get into root account by saying "su -" (as a normal user). Have to add "man su" into my reading list to find out why.

Some of the weird behaviour can be explained by the absence of sudo. I had some scripts to automate some tasks. Those scripts required sudo and there was none. Also there were some dependencies that i missed. That's why netfilter-persistent didn't work.
It have become clear that last year when i previously tried Devuan netinstall, i didn't pay attention to that "sudo-situatopn". Root-on-lvm was more important.

X works. But the "pad" and external mouse don't. Are people still configuring X or does that happen automagically?

This time i think i try alternatives for slim and xfce. Lxdm seems to attract libavahi and libcups so maybe not that.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2023-05-07 04:13:08)

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#12 2023-05-07 04:20:37

GlennW
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From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 601  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

X configures automagically on my box. I think you need those other packages from your install scripts.

Do you get an error when you use "su -"?  The newer versions reject it "su -"  with a terse message.

I have sudo installed, but I'm one of those who prefers to su when required, I have it turned off in services

I use rc-update to see and edit the services & daemon list (open-rc init).

If you can login then you can su to a substitute user.


pic from 1993, new guitar day.

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#13 2023-05-07 04:38:47

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

"su: authentication failure". Makes me think that i have "locked myself out", kind of. Got the password wrong too many times, i mean.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2023-05-07 04:52:11)

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#14 2023-05-08 02:54:43

zapper
Member
Registered: 2017-05-29
Posts: 874  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

nahkhiirmees wrote:

"su: authentication failure". Makes me think that i have "locked myself out", kind of. Got the password wrong too many times, i mean.

Which tty are you using to log in?

Usually tty1-tty4 work and in my experience, the others are not so great and refuse to work.


Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. Feelings are not facts
If you wish to be humbled, try to exalt yourself long term  If you wish to be exalted, try to humble yourself long term
Favourite operating systems: Hyperbola Devuan OpenBSD
Peace Be With us All!

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#15 2023-05-08 15:40:46

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

zapper wrote:

Which tty are you using to log in?

Usually tty1-tty4 work and in my experience, the others are not so great and refuse to work.

I could get in only into 1 tty. I'll soon check what /etc/inittab says. Maybe something is still missing or Fujitsu's keyboard is a bit faulty.

It kind of made sense that i cannot get into root account by using "su -" if i enter wrong password too many times. But now i think that it could be unrealiable caps lock key/light also.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2023-05-08 15:52:40)

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#16 2023-05-08 18:06:42

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

Now i think that Fujitsus's keyboard is not to blame. Just temporarily forgot why there is "function lock"-key smile I can get into other tty's , not just tty1.
And i can log in as a normal user so caps lock should be fine. But it doesn't matter which tty i use, still "su -" results in "Authentication failure". But logging in as "root" , without su, works.

Edit. Found these: https://unix.stackexchange.com/question … ng-as-root https://access.redhat.com/solutions/22684 may be related.

And there's also the issue with mouse and X. Latter is useless without former.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2023-05-08 18:14:46)

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#17 2023-05-08 18:36:14

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

i found these lines in /var/log/auth.log:

unix_chkpwd[xxxx]: check pass: user unknown
unix_chkpwd[xxxx+1]: check pass: user unknown
unix_chkpwd[xxxx+1]: password check failed for user (root)
su: pam_unix(su-l:auth) ; authentication failure logname=<normal_user> uid=<uid> euid=<uid> tty=tty2 ruser=<normal_user> rhost= user=root

so maybe a pam problem or pam problem in a sense that a package or a configuration file is missing.

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#18 2023-05-08 19:22:46

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

nahkhiirmees wrote:

And there's also the issue with mouse and X. Latter is useless without former.

Also reconfigured most of the installed packages so that i could kill X with ctr+alt+backspace. After reconfiguration that combination still doesn't work.
Btw, why there's no configuration file for X under /etc/X11 ?

It starts to look like quicker just to copy contents of my old laptop's ssd into new laptop's ssd. I mean, if i can trust that the install stick and usb-storage module still works. I have noticed that the memory sticks and cards today tend to be use-once-and-throw-away garbage.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2023-05-08 19:30:01)

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#19 2023-05-11 02:29:52

zapper
Member
Registered: 2017-05-29
Posts: 874  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

nahkhiirmees wrote:
zapper wrote:

Which tty are you using to log in?

Usually tty1-tty4 work and in my experience, the others are not so great and refuse to work.

I could get in only into 1 tty. I'll soon check what /etc/inittab says. Maybe something is still missing or Fujitsu's keyboard is a bit faulty.

It kind of made sense that i cannot get into root account by using "su -" if i enter wrong password too many times. But now i think that it could be unrealiable caps lock key/light also.

That does happen... hence why I immensely detest the caps lock button...


Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. Feelings are not facts
If you wish to be humbled, try to exalt yourself long term  If you wish to be exalted, try to humble yourself long term
Favourite operating systems: Hyperbola Devuan OpenBSD
Peace Be With us All!

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#20 2023-07-10 18:19:13

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

I have retuned on this subject. Last weekend i downloaded and burned the amd64 iso from https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/desktop-live/ . Tried to install on my desktop.
X worked. Sudo worked. Those scripts i mentioned earlier worked too, maybe too well i'm afraid. Those scripts were supposed to remove some not-so-necessary-packages but xorg and xfce4 became collateral damage. Not so big deal. I can reinstall those.

But then i noticed that  "su -" is still not working. Ctrl+alt+function_key + root as login+root_password and i can login as root. But if i press ctrl+alt+another_function_key , enter normal_user as login and normal_passwd as passwd, i can get in but "su -" is still not working.
I wonder if there is something weird going on with Chimaera and pam or if the scripts are to blame. Propably the latter one. I guess i will try again soon.

What i would like to know:is it possible to have "su -" working without Ubuntu-style-sudo ?

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#21 2023-07-11 00:09:16

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

nahkhiirmees wrote:

I have retuned on this subject. Last weekend i downloaded and burned the amd64 iso from
press ctrl+alt+another_function_key , enter normal_user as login and normal_passwd as passwd, i can get in but "su -" is still not working.
I wonder if there is something weird going on with Chimaera and pam or if the scripts are to blame. Propably the latter one. I guess i will try again soon.

Now i have confirmed that the scripts are cause for "su"-related problems. Command "su -" worked as normal user before.
So now i have to rewrite the scripts from scratch, preferably up-down-style this time, AND inside a virtual machine so that the damage to host os is limited to absolute minimum.

Maybe some day i have a working Devuan in my desktop's harddrive. After that it is time to find out if that dd-trick works with Fujitsu.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2023-07-11 00:10:35)

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#22 2023-07-11 23:51:25

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

1. using "-p" with "tar -x" is a Bad Idea
2. changing access rights of /tmp is to be avoided at any cost

those facts have become very clear.

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#23 2023-10-28 17:53:33

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

The installation process is not impossible with that machine. It seems that problems start when i log in and try to make things like iptables and dnsmasq work properly. So far there have been some collateral damage with the attempts. Not using those faulty scripts anymore but still.

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#24 2023-10-28 18:30:49

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 228  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

I guess i should have changed tables rules and install+configure dns stuff *before* i started removing unnecessary packages. The removal of unnecessary packages caused removal of iptables also and after that things went kind of complicated.

Anyways, dd or cp from hdd to sdd is still an option.

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#25 2023-10-29 07:51:55

czeekaj
Member
Registered: 2019-06-12
Posts: 154  

Re: Fujitsu Lifebook U728 + Devuan 4

I just decided to make a quick sysV init script to configure iptables at boot rather then install iptables-persistance
Mainly because I've made mistake of not enabling ufw and then starting plugging away about my computing lol.
I'd say it's a good early step.  Just add your iptable script to /etc/init.d
then run

update-rc.d "$iptables_default_script" defaults
update-rc.d $iptables_default_script enable

I don't know much about dnsmasq. I just set it  in /etc/resolv.conf I know it's probably wrong way but it's simple

an example script could look like this

#!/bin/sh
### BEGIN INIT INFO
# Provides:          iptable_defaults
# Required-Start:    $network
# Required-Stop:
# Should-Start:	     
# Should-Stop:       
# X-Start-Before:    
# Default-Start:     2 3 4 5
# Default-Stop:
# Short-Description: simple-iptables
# Description:       configure iptables before connecting to internet
### END INIT INFO
ip=iptables
ip6=ip6tables

$ip6 -A INPUT -j DROP
$ip -A INPUT -j DROP
$ip -A FORWARD -j DROP
$ip6 -A FORWARD -j DROP

Last edited by czeekaj (2023-10-29 07:55:14)

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