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#1 2022-09-23 07:52:27

JBert
Member
Registered: 2022-09-23
Posts: 4  

From Debian (testing) to Devuan

Hello,

I have some trouble with a diskless workstation that tries to run with debian/testing. In this configuration, systemd doesn't work as expected and it often kills X without reason. This morning, apt upgrade tries to install usrmerge and I don't want to merge / and /usr. Is it possible to run devuan without merging / and /usr ?

Best regards,

JB

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#2 2022-09-23 21:11:55

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,132  

Re: From Debian (testing) to Devuan

Yes, it's still possible to run without usrmerge in devuan. If you use one of our installer isos, you will be asked whether you want it or not. Default is not.

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#3 2022-09-23 23:27:07

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 2,532  

Re: From Debian (testing) to Devuan

Kudos to the developers for forking the init-system-helpers package. Great work. Thank you!

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#4 2022-09-26 08:01:18

JBert
Member
Registered: 2022-09-23
Posts: 4  

Re: From Debian (testing) to Devuan

fsmithred wrote:

Yes, it's still possible to run without usrmerge in devuan. If you use one of our installer isos, you will be asked whether you want it or not. Default is not.

Thanks for your answer. And in a predictable future ?

Regards,

JB

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#5 2022-09-26 21:44:46

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,132  

Re: From Debian (testing) to Devuan

And in a predictable future?

Debian will work out all the bugs and everything will be fine. Just like always.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist. Any other answer would have turned NSFW.)

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#6 2022-09-27 07:33:28

JBert
Member
Registered: 2022-09-23
Posts: 4  

Re: From Debian (testing) to Devuan

fsmithred wrote:

And in a predictable future?

Debian will work out all the bugs and everything will be fine. Just like always.

I don't understand usrmerge (and I don't like it) and I prefer to keep / and /usr on different partitions (with / in read only). / should contain all program required to boot a minimal and usable system. usrmerge prohibits this configuration and in embedded systems, a root partition in read only is mandatory (to restart a device even if /usr is totally broken after, for example, a power outage). That being said, in embedded systems, we wait for a rescue directory (like /rescue in NetBSD world) where all critical programs are statically linked.

In diskless configuration (my workstation is in nfsroot), usrmerge also leads to multiply nfs request. I have tried, a diskless workstation with usrmerge is slower that the same workstation without usrmerge.

In both cases, merging / and /usr is a very bad idea. For me, usrmerge and systemd are the exactly the same nonsense.

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#7 Yesterday 06:32:38

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 2,532  

Re: From Debian (testing) to Devuan

JBert wrote:

/ should contain all program required to boot a minimal and usable system

That recommendation stems from a time when disk size was measured in MiB. The restriction makes no sense in a modern system.

Rob Landley wrote:

Standards bureaucracies like the Linux Foundation (which consumed the Free
Standards Group in its' ever-growing accretion disk years ago) happily
document and add to this sort of complexity without ever trying to understand
why it was there in the first place.  'Ken and Dennis leaked their OS into the
equivalent of home because an RK05 disk pack on the PDP-11 was too small" goes
whoosh over their heads.

http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busy … 74114.html

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#8 Yesterday 13:00:20

JBert
Member
Registered: 2022-09-23
Posts: 4  

Re: From Debian (testing) to Devuan

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
JBert wrote:

/ should contain all program required to boot a minimal and usable system

That recommendation stems from a time when disk size was measured in MiB. The restriction makes no sense in a modern system.

Nope.

Keep / in read only (and /usr in read/write) is not related to disk size.

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#9 Today 17:21:49

kaiyel
Member
Registered: 2019-10-16
Posts: 8  

Re: From Debian (testing) to Devuan

For those who are interested in the greybeard history of why "bin" was split between "/bin" and "/usr/bin" :

http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busy … 74114.html

--K

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