Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

ruben · 2020-08-25 08:59:22

a good option is srware iron, it is not in the repositories but it is easily installed with dpkg -i

Job · 2020-08-25 23:18:52

Iridium but recently enjoying luakit.

Vernon · 2020-08-26 04:07:14

golinux wrote:

Has anyone given ungoogled chromium a spin?

Tried running the binary and got version `GLIBC_2.28' not found

Didn't investigate further because I only use Chromium for web sites that don't support Firefox and Jitsi. For some reason, I don't know whether it is due to Firefox Javascript or WebRTC implementation, Jitsi is much more stable with Chromium.

One of the many reasons I prefer Firefox is its Reader mode which I believe is only found on one other browser - Safari.

Normal web site rendering
Normal

After clicking on the Reader icon next to the URL
Firefox Reader Mode

Notice that the page is now rendered like a Book Reader and all the cruft is gone.

HevyDevy · 2020-08-26 11:23:30

When i was looking at gnuinos distro the default web browser is otter browser. I was quite impressed by it, had some good privacy tools as default addons.

https://otter-browser.org/

Head_on_a_Stick · 2020-08-26 14:59:25

Interesting paper analysing the information transmitted by various browsers, including Brave:

https://www.scss.tcd.ie/Doug.Leith/pubs … rivacy.pdf

MiyoLinux · 2020-08-26 15:44:03

I've been trying out the BadWolf browser lately for the last couple of months. I discovered it a couple of months ago on the NetBSD forums. So far, I'm liking it...very minimal, and Java script is turned off by default. Has anyone else here tried it? If so, any input that I can glean from? I only ask, because I rarely use the internet...so I'm not really up to speed on stuff like this.

My browser security mainly consists of a couple of add-ons and not getting on the internet...

LOLOLOL!!!

https://hacktivis.me/projects/badwolf

Head_on_a_Stick · 2020-08-26 18:31:51

MiyoLinux wrote:

BadWolf

Hmm, interesting. It's quite nice and a bit lighter than firefox-esr in my Alpine system:

 53.6 MiB +  71.8 MiB = 125.3 MiB       badwolf
115.5 MiB + 170.6 MiB = 286.1 MiB       WebKitNetworkProcess (8)
371.3 MiB + 500.0 MiB = 871.3 MiB       WebKitWebProcess (8)
947.4 MiB +   1.2 GiB =   2.1 GiB       firefox (12)

Same tabs open in both, a saving of ~800MiB is quite significant

But I do think FF has a memory leak somewhere...

brocashelm · 2020-08-26 18:59:37

I'm fine with Pale Moon. It's the only active fork that supports XUL. The developers might be interesting characters and the browser probably does stifle from limited resource power, but considering that I have JavaScript turned off almost always, pages load blazing fast, anyway.

Another Firefox fork that I like is IceCat, which is created by and for freetards. Too bad there isn't an official repository to automatically receive updates through APT. I never bother with the Tor feature, since Tor Browser is there for a reason (to keep things neat and tidy with configuration profiles).

Otter Browser is great, but it hasn't been updated in a while, hasn't it? At least it's closer to what Opera was like, before a Chinese corporation bought it and installed all sorts of backdoors. Even the "VPN" can't be trusted one bit.

For a Chromium fork that I use, Iridium Browser is solid. It's just that the Debian build is outdated. Otherwise, not interested in Googleshit.

MiyoLinux · 2020-08-26 19:37:53

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

MiyoLinux wrote:
BadWolf
Same tabs open in both, a saving of ~800MiB is quite significant

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

MiyoLinux wrote:
BadWolf
But I do think FF has a memory leak somewhere...

Touché

Thanks HoaS! Much appreciated!

Vernon · 2020-08-27 01:50:15

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Interesting paper analysing the information transmitted by various browsers, including Brave:
https://www.scss.tcd.ie/Doug.Leith/pubs … rivacy.pdf

I skimmed through this article and have the following comments.

Used “out of the box” with its default settings
- Why default settings? If the browser can be made more "secure" with non-default settings, list them and tell us if there are any drawbacks to non-default settings. Comparing default browser settings has limited value - especially to a community like this who are not averse to changing default settings
It is important to note that transmission of user data to backend servers is not intrinsically a privacy intrusion.
- The author seems unaware of modern browser fingerprinting techniques which is perhaps why the author references articles from 2002 and 2007 for this statement
B. Viewing Content Of Encrypted Web Connections
- Here, the author describes the man in the middle attack used to determine what data browsers are sending. With Firefox, this could have been more completely determined by simply typing in about:config and searching for Google, for example. Firefox is not trying to be sneaky about anything and you can change most default behaviors
.

I think a better article is here which includes links to browser fingerprinting detection sites. I disagree with some of the mitigation steps in this article like using security plugins, using TOR, and using the Brave browser, but its conclusion is sound - Browser Fingerprinting is a difficult-to-counter way websites can track our Internet use without our permission and without leaving any evidence on our computers. So far, there are no perfect solutions to the problem available,..

Finally, it is important to remember, the more non-mainstream a browser you use, the easier it is to fingerprint.

LU344928 · 2020-08-28 14:46:45

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

But I do think FF has a memory leak somewhere...

That memory leak has plagued FF for years. Why it's not fixed after all this time is bewildering.

Vernon · 2020-08-28 16:35:52

LU344928 wrote:

That memory leak has plagued FF for years. Why it's not fixed after all this time is bewildering.

Probably because no one who complains about it has submitted a patch to fix it.

Vernon · 2020-08-28 21:53:33

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

MiyoLinux wrote:
BadWolf
Hmm, interesting. It's quite nice and a bit lighter than firefox-esr in my Alpine system:
 53.6 MiB +  71.8 MiB = 125.3 MiB       badwolf
115.5 MiB + 170.6 MiB = 286.1 MiB       WebKitNetworkProcess (8)
371.3 MiB + 500.0 MiB = 871.3 MiB       WebKitWebProcess (8)
947.4 MiB +   1.2 GiB =   2.1 GiB       firefox (12)
Same tabs open in both, a saving of ~800MiB is quite significant
But I do think FF has a memory leak somewhere...

Questions:

What was the actual number of tabs you had open in each browser?
Were the websites in each tab identical for each browser
Were some Web sites using JavaScript/HTML5/WebSockets or other memory/CPU intensive operations?
What command(s) did you use to get these number?

Thanks.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2020-08-29 10:38:02

Vernon wrote:

What was the actual number of tabs you had open in each browser?

8

Vernon wrote:

Were the websites in each tab identical for each browser

Yes.

Vernon wrote:

Were some Web sites using JavaScript/HTML5/WebSockets or other memory/CPU intensive operations?

No, javascript was disabled in both browsers.

Vernon wrote:

What command(s) did you use to get these number?

https://github.com/pixelb/ps_mem

Vernon · 2020-08-29 19:35:54

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Vernon wrote:
What command(s) did you use to get these number?
https://github.com/pixelb/ps_mem

First, thanks for pointing to the ps_mem tool. I was unaware of it. When I use ps_mem on my Devuan Buster netbook with 8 Firefox tabs open, I get

 16.8 MiB +   7.4 MiB =  24.1 MiB       WebExtensions
 27.1 MiB +  18.6 MiB = 145.7 MiB       firefox-esr
129.7 MiB +  67.3 MiB = 197.0 MiB       Web Content (8)

Note that the Firefox memory usage on my Devuan system is less than even the memory usage for Badwolf on your Alpine system. Perhaps its time to switch to Devuan

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

 53.6 MiB +  71.8 MiB = 125.3 MiB       badwolf
115.5 MiB + 170.6 MiB = 286.1 MiB       WebKitNetworkProcess (8)
371.3 MiB + 500.0 MiB = 871.3 MiB       WebKitWebProcess (8)
947.4 MiB +   1.2 GiB =   2.1 GiB       firefox (12)

My test details.

Dell Vostro A90 netbook running Devuan Buster with LXQt
Out of the box Firefox with nothing disabled
Tab Contents

Complete ps_mem output.

# ps_mem 
 Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used       Program

164.0 KiB +  20.5 KiB = 184.5 KiB       anacron
236.0 KiB +  39.5 KiB = 275.5 KiB       rtkit-daemon
256.0 KiB +  26.5 KiB = 282.5 KiB       init
260.0 KiB +  35.5 KiB = 295.5 KiB       cron
412.0 KiB +  35.5 KiB = 447.5 KiB       pcscd
520.0 KiB +  21.5 KiB = 541.5 KiB       ssh-agent
504.0 KiB + 115.0 KiB = 619.0 KiB       dbus-launch (2)
472.0 KiB + 166.5 KiB = 638.5 KiB       xfconfd
524.0 KiB + 147.5 KiB = 671.5 KiB       agent
236.0 KiB + 478.0 KiB = 714.0 KiB       saned (2)
640.0 KiB + 145.5 KiB = 785.5 KiB       gvfs-mtp-volume-monitor
612.0 KiB + 187.5 KiB = 799.5 KiB       at-spi-bus-launcher
456.0 KiB + 400.5 KiB = 856.5 KiB       su
408.0 KiB + 456.0 KiB = 864.0 KiB       avahi-daemon (2)
676.0 KiB + 193.5 KiB = 869.5 KiB       at-spi2-registryd
568.0 KiB + 329.0 KiB = 897.0 KiB       getty (6)
792.0 KiB + 118.5 KiB = 910.5 KiB       gvfs-goa-volume-monitor
908.0 KiB + 143.5 KiB =   1.0 MiB       gvfsd-fuse
852.0 KiB + 213.5 KiB =   1.0 MiB       gvfs-gphoto2-volume-monitor
572.0 KiB + 497.5 KiB =   1.0 MiB       dbus
688.0 KiB + 409.5 KiB =   1.1 MiB       gvfsd
908.0 KiB + 452.5 KiB =   1.3 MiB       gvfs-afc-volume-monitor
  1.2 MiB + 137.5 KiB =   1.4 MiB       xscreensaver
908.0 KiB + 542.5 KiB =   1.4 MiB       gvfsd-trash
  1.6 MiB +  45.5 KiB =   1.7 MiB       elogind-daemon
  1.6 MiB + 112.5 KiB =   1.7 MiB       bluetoothd
  1.7 MiB +  65.5 KiB =   1.8 MiB       rsyslogd
  1.6 MiB + 197.5 KiB =   1.8 MiB       udevd
  1.4 MiB + 512.5 KiB =   1.9 MiB       upowerd
  1.8 MiB + 217.5 KiB =   2.0 MiB       polkitd
  1.5 MiB + 799.5 KiB =   2.3 MiB       gvfs-udisks2-volume-monitor
  2.0 MiB + 421.5 KiB =   2.4 MiB       dhclient
  2.0 MiB + 434.0 KiB =   2.4 MiB       dbus-daemon (4)
  1.6 MiB + 912.0 KiB =   2.5 MiB       lightdm (2)
  1.4 MiB +   1.2 MiB =   2.6 MiB       bash (2)
  2.0 MiB + 713.5 KiB =   2.7 MiB       cups-browsed
  2.5 MiB + 545.5 KiB =   3.0 MiB       cupsd
  3.2 MiB + 501.5 KiB =   3.7 MiB       wpa_supplicant
  3.7 MiB + 358.5 KiB =   4.0 MiB       ModemManager
  2.6 MiB +   1.8 MiB =   4.4 MiB       lxqt-policykit-agent
  2.7 MiB +   1.7 MiB =   4.4 MiB       lxqt-globalkeysd
  2.7 MiB +   1.8 MiB =   4.4 MiB       lxqt-session
  3.9 MiB + 631.5 KiB =   4.5 MiB       udisksd
  2.5 MiB +   2.0 MiB =   4.6 MiB       lxqt-notificationd
  4.3 MiB +   1.7 MiB =   6.0 MiB       nm-tray
  5.5 MiB + 743.5 KiB =   6.2 MiB       NetworkManager
  3.7 MiB +   2.6 MiB =   6.3 MiB       lxqt-powermanagement
  6.2 MiB + 209.5 KiB =   6.4 MiB       colord
  6.6 MiB +   1.1 MiB =   7.7 MiB       xfwm4
  5.6 MiB +   2.8 MiB =   8.4 MiB       lxqt-runner
  6.3 MiB +   4.0 MiB =  10.2 MiB       qterminal
 11.9 MiB + 971.5 KiB =  12.9 MiB       pulseaudio
  9.0 MiB +   4.3 MiB =  13.3 MiB       pcmanfm-qt
 13.8 MiB +   1.1 MiB =  14.9 MiB       applet.py
 14.2 MiB +   5.2 MiB =  19.4 MiB       lxqt-panel
 16.8 MiB +   7.4 MiB =  24.1 MiB       WebExtensions
 20.6 MiB +   6.9 MiB =  27.5 MiB       Xorg
127.1 MiB +  18.6 MiB = 145.7 MiB       firefox-esr
129.7 MiB +  67.3 MiB = 197.0 MiB       Web Content (8)
---------------------------------
                        583.4 MiB
=================================

Head_on_a_Stick · 2020-08-29 20:01:24

Vernon wrote:

Dell Vostro A90 netbook running Devuan Buster with LXQt

So that's a 32-bit system with 1GiB of RAM then? Not really comparable to my (64-bit) ThinkPad E485 with 16GiB of RAM — Linux eats all the memory it can and with 16GiB available usage shoots up in comparison to a 1GiB system.

Vernon wrote:

Perhaps its time to switch to Devuan

No way, glibc is a bloat-monster compared to musl

But seriously, I have compared live versions of some of the Openbox Devuan derivatives and Alpine is still significantly lighter on my hardware.

EDIT: and the Debian-derived abstractions always irritate me after a while, Alpine's simplicity is more to my liking.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2020-08-29 20:02:55)

Vernon · 2020-08-30 18:27:51

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Vernon wrote:
Dell Vostro A90 netbook running Devuan Buster with LXQt
So that's a 32-bit system with 1GiB of RAM then? Not really comparable to my (64-bit) ThinkPad E485 with 16GiB of RAM — Linux eats all the memory it can and with 16GiB available usage shoots up in comparison to a 1GiB system.

It has 2GiB of RAM. I should have put that in my previous post. I don't have any 64bit machines with Devuan yet.

zapper · 2020-09-02 22:45:39

HevyDevy wrote:

randomer wrote:
Has anyone tried Hyperbola and their fork of Basilisk, Iceweasel-UXP? https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … redirect=1
I did a few months ago, the non free aspect of it killed my hopes of a working wifi connection though, no free drivers so i was stuck tethered to the phone for network. Good distro though and you can make it really lightweight and resource friendly. Iceweasel was good and worked ok, addons are not very straight forward and you cant just add them from firefox if memory serves me correct.

It depends, I have done exactly that with xul firefox addons to iceweasel-uxp. Webextension ones, no way in hell though.

One laptop i have devuan on for gaming, but otherwise they will be running hyperbola from now on.

HevyDevy · 2020-09-03 12:53:18

zapper wrote:

HevyDevy wrote:
randomer wrote:
Has anyone tried Hyperbola and their fork of Basilisk, Iceweasel-UXP? https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id … redirect=1
I did a few months ago, the non free aspect of it killed my hopes of a working wifi connection though, no free drivers so i was stuck tethered to the phone for network. Good distro though and you can make it really lightweight and resource friendly. Iceweasel was good and worked ok, addons are not very straight forward and you cant just add them from firefox if memory serves me correct.
It depends, I have done exactly that with xul firefox addons to iceweasel-uxp. Webextension ones, no way in hell though.
One laptop i have devuan on for gaming, but otherwise they will be running hyperbola from now on.

So you think the mozilla addons are not really a safe option? Like say ublock origin for firefox-esr ?

hyperbola have an interesting future ahead, im looking forward to seeing what they come up with in regards to porting openbsd.

zapper · 2020-09-03 16:26:22

HevyDevy wrote:

zapper wrote:
HevyDevy wrote:
I did a few months ago, the non free aspect of it killed my hopes of a working wifi connection though, no free drivers so i was stuck tethered to the phone for network. Good distro though and you can make it really lightweight and resource friendly. Iceweasel was good and worked ok, addons are not very straight forward and you cant just add them from firefox if memory serves me correct.
It depends, I have done exactly that with xul firefox addons to iceweasel-uxp. Webextension ones, no way in hell though.
One laptop i have devuan on for gaming, but otherwise they will be running hyperbola from now on.
So you think the mozilla addons are not really a safe option? Like say ublock origin for firefox-esr ?
hyperbola have an interesting future ahead, im looking forward to seeing what they come up with in regards to porting openbsd.

Yeah, Hyperbola does have an interesting future, they plan to support arm based devices and x86 based ones, meaning 32 bit and 64 bit.

As for mozilla, I just feel like they have forgotten what matters to users. They keep trying to add unneeded anti features and are allowing google to taint them further and further.

Palemoon is what I use on devuan btw...

2 Laptops = Hyperbola
1 = Devuan (gaming one) but even that one has a linux-libre-4.19 kernel.

Although gnu and linux are both starting to concern me, so its good Hyperbola is moving forward with their goals. Oh and btw, if anyone wants to support the old noscript, https://github.com/hackademix/noscript-classic

for people who use the xul web browsers aka...

HevyDevy · 2020-09-04 12:13:47

zapper, yeah good point in regards to mozilla, i suppose if the goog keeps the paychecks coming they might be in a position where they are obliged to do their bidding.

czeekaj · 2021-02-08 01:23:50

Chromium will give more ads on Google. None relevant but I wanted to try ungoogled. However,
I see iceweasel is in the repos. How does it differ from firefox? All my add-ons previously installed work. All my bookmarks and history are intact? It seems identical to mozilla. I cannot discern a difference but I think I will use iceweasel for now just for the Spirit of it.

dice · 2021-02-08 07:29:19

czeekaj wrote:

Chromium will give more ads on Google. None relevant but I wanted to try ungoogled. However,
I see iceweasel is in the repos. How does it differ from firefox? All my add-ons previously installed work. All my bookmarks and history are intact? It seems identical to mozilla. I cannot discern a difference but I think I will use iceweasel for now just for the Spirit of it.

In regards to iceweasel, it is firefox-esr.

Explanation...
https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox

Iceweasel
From Debian Etch through Debian Jessie (9th June 2016), Mozilla Firefox was not available in Debian with the official name or branding. Instead, Debian shipped a free-software version rebranded by Debian, named Iceweasel. This fork was maintained because of a disagreement with Mozilla regarding backporting of the security fixes to DebianStable, and as the result could not use trademarked Mozilla artwork.
Starting from DebianStretch, the iceweasel package has been made a transitional package for firefox-esr. Normal Debian support policies, including patches for bug fixes, apply to the package.

aitor · 2021-12-13 20:45:31

brocashelm wrote:

Another Firefox fork that I like is IceCat, which is created by and for freetards. Too bad there isn't an official repository to automatically receive updates through APT.

DEB packages of version 78.15.0 are available at:

http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/i/icecat/

I announced them yesterday night in the irc channel. It looks good in chimaera:

icecat

zephyr · 2021-12-13 22:18:59

Aitor wrote: DEB packages of version 78.15.0 are available at:

http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/i/icecat/

Wow! Thanks Aitor, checking it out!

cheers

zephyr

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#26 2020-08-25 08:59:22

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#27 2020-08-25 23:18:52

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#28 2020-08-26 04:07:14

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#29 2020-08-26 11:23:30

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#30 2020-08-26 14:59:25

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#31 2020-08-26 15:44:03

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#32 2020-08-26 18:31:51

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#33 2020-08-26 18:59:37

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#34 2020-08-26 19:37:53

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#35 2020-08-27 01:50:15

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#36 2020-08-28 14:46:45

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#37 2020-08-28 16:35:52

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#38 2020-08-28 21:53:33

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#39 2020-08-29 10:38:02

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#40 2020-08-29 19:35:54

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#41 2020-08-29 20:01:24

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#42 2020-08-30 18:27:51

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#43 2020-09-02 22:45:39

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#44 2020-09-03 12:53:18

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#45 2020-09-03 16:26:22

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#46 2020-09-04 12:13:47

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#47 2021-02-08 01:23:50

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#48 2021-02-08 07:29:19

Re: Alternative browser for Devuan/Debian - Brave

#49 2021-12-13 20:45:31

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#50 2021-12-13 22:18:59

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