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#1 2021-02-26 12:41:12

alexkemp
Member
Registered: 2018-05-14
Posts: 8  

Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?)

System:

Devuan GNU/Linux 3 (beowulf)
DM: XFCE 4.12 + Slim

At some point during daily updates - possibly on upgrade to Beowolf - I found that Synaptic had auto-pinned (is 'pin' the right word?) two packages; they now show as "2 packages will be held back and not upgraded" on every update. I have zero idea why this happened. I want to sort it if at all possible, and am posting here in hope of getting some help to do that.

These are the held-back packages:

Package: libpolkit-qt-1-1
Version: 0.112.0-5

Package: libpolkit-qt5-1-1
Version: 0.112.0-5

Warning! The following may be a wrongful black-hole that I fell down during a patch of prior research:-

The research threw up virtually nothing. One of the few scraps was in this forum, within a question on problems to shutdown or reboot after update to beowulf. The Questioner was asked to show policykit related packages, and his results matched mine almost exactly (although I do NOT have any shutdown problems):-

$ dpkg -l | egrep "consolekit|elogind|policykit|polkit|libpam"
ii  consolekit                                1.2.1-8                             amd64
ii  gir1.2-polkit-1.0                         0.105-25+devuan8                    amd64
ii  libpam-cap:amd64                          1:2.25-2                            amd64
ii  libpam-ck-connector:amd64                 1.2.1-8                             amd64
ii  libpam-gnome-keyring:amd64                3.28.2-5                            amd64
ii  libpam-modules:amd64                      1.3.1-5                             amd64
ii  libpam-modules-bin                        1.3.1-5                             amd64
ii  libpam-runtime                            1.3.1-5                             all
ii  libpam0g:amd64                            1.3.1-5                             amd64
ii  libpolkit-agent-1-0:amd64                 0.105-25+devuan8                    amd64
ii  libpolkit-backend-1-0                     0.105-25+devuan8                    all
ii  libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0:amd64    0.105-25+devuan8                    amd64
ii  libpolkit-gobject-1-0                     0.105-25+devuan8                    all
ii  libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0:amd64    0.105-25+devuan8                    amd64
ii  libpolkit-qt-1-1:amd64                    0.112.0-5                           amd64
ii  libpolkit-qt5-1-1:amd64                   0.112.0-5                           amd64
ii  policykit-1                               0.105-25+devuan8                    amd64
ii  policykit-1-gnome                         0.105-7                             amd64

The Beowolf Release notes stated that:-

Two session management systems are available in Devuan Beowulf:

 - consolekit
 - logind (elogind and libpam-elogind)

These session managers are mutually exclusive; …

The default session manager for all desktops is logind (libpam-elogind).
Xfce and Cinnamon will work with either logind or consolekit.

The latest post by rolfie stated that switching from consolekit to logind had fixed all issues on his machine. I was willing to try that, but to do so would remove a vast amount of existing packages:-

$ sudo apt install libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0
…
The following additional packages will be installed:
  elogind libelogind0 libpam-elogind
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  bleachbit breeze colord consolekit drkonqi kactivitymanagerd kde-runtime kde-style-qtcurve-qt5 kdelibs5-plugins kdenlive
  keditbookmarks khelpcenter khelpcenter4 kinit kio kpackagelauncherqml kpat libkf5declarative5 libkf5kcmutils5 libkf5kdegames7
  libkf5kdelibs4support5 libkf5kdelibs4support5-bin libkf5khtml-bin libkf5khtml5 libkf5newstuff5 libkf5newstuffcore5
  libkf5notifyconfig5 libkf5parts-plugins libkf5parts5 libkf5quickaddons5 libkf5xmlrpcclient5 libokular5core8 libpam-ck-connector
  libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0 libpolkit-qt-1-1 libsystemd0 okular okular-extra-backends
  packagekit packagekit-tools policykit-1-gnome qml-module-org-kde-newstuff rtkit slim synaptic task-xfce-desktop xiccd
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  elogind libelogind0 libpam-elogind libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0

That is way too much pain to fix this little issue (including no means to login after doing it).

Is anyone able to help, please? In particular, why did these packages get held back in the first place?

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#2 2021-02-26 14:52:06

Altoid
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 760  

Re: Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?)

Hello:

alexkemp wrote:

... why did these packages get held back ...

Don't despair. 8^D
Read this post https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=4130.

It is related to libpolkit-qt5-1-1 being held back, which in turn was related to SLiM and its dependencies.

groucho@devuan:~$ aptitude why consolekit
i   slim Depends default-logind | logind | consolekit
groucho@devuan:~$ 

Installing libpam-elogind and removing consolekit gets rid of a few surplus/unused files and fixes everything.
Do read the post twice just in case.

Best,

A.

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#3 2021-02-26 17:07:00

alexkemp
Member
Registered: 2018-05-14
Posts: 8  

Re: Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?)

Thanks for such a fast reply, Altoid. Thanks also for such an excellent diagnosis provided within your earlier thread. Surely the very best advice is given from those that have met the same/similar problem & fixed it.

I swallowed hard & went ahead:-

$ sudo apt install libpam-elogind
…
The following additional packages will be installed:
  elogind libelogind0 libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  consolekit libpam-ck-connector libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0 libsystemd0
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  elogind libelogind0 libpam-elogind libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0
0 upgraded, 5 newly installed, 5 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
Need to get 1,144 kB of archives.
After this operation, 2,241 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y
…
dpkg: libsystemd0:amd64: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
 xserver-xorg-core depends on libsystemd0.
 vlc-plugin-base:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 sane-utils depends on libsystemd0.
 samba-libs:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 rsyslog depends on libsystemd0.
 rpcbind depends on libsystemd0.
 pulseaudio depends on libsystemd0.
 modemmanager depends on libsystemd0 (>= 209).
 libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libpulse0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libjavascriptcoregtk-4.0-18:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libapt-pkg5.0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0 (>= 221).
 irqbalance depends on libsystemd0.
 gvfs-daemons depends on libsystemd0.
 cups-daemon depends on libsystemd0.
…
dpkg: libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0:amd64: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
…
dpkg: consolekit: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
…
dpkg: libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0:amd64: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
…

Well, I went across just now to YouTube & I still have sound, so maybe those scary warnings meant nothing. However, I cannot login to Synaptic; I can launch it from the Terminal (root login with sudo, and those two held packages are now released, so I updated), but the Desktop menu link does not work.

We'll see what happens after a restart (quiver!), but for now many thanks, and it looks like I may have a clear system again. Hooray!

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#4 2021-02-26 18:41:17

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 1,596  
Website

Re: Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?)

alexkemp wrote:

I cannot login to Synaptic; I can launch it from the Terminal (root login with sudo, and those two held packages are now released, so I updated), but the Desktop menu link does not work.

See http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=148806 & http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=148829


Black Lives Matter

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#5 2021-02-26 19:45:59

Altoid
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 760  

Re: Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?)

Hello:

alexkemp wrote:

Thanks for such a fast reply ...

You're welcome.

alexkemp wrote:

... for such an excellent diagnosis ...
... best advice is given from those that have met the same/similar problem & fixed it.

Hmm ...
I'm just a humble messenger, an apprentice at best.

The heavy lifting (which is where the message actually originates) is done by others with much more knowledge and experience.

Glad you were able to get it working.
Do read up the (very often ignored) Release Notes.

Cheers,

A.

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#6 2021-02-26 23:56:50

alexkemp
Member
Registered: 2018-05-14
Posts: 8  

Re: Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?)

Thank you everyone, my system seems back in order following a restart (sudo reboot). Menu synaptic + shutdown/restart, etc. dialogs now all function as normal, no extra config required. Reboot + login all functioned perfectly, again without any reconfig.

I was *very* nervous restarting, and with good reason. I've been on both local + remote machines where I've suffered outages & then had to endure hours-long manual re-config from the terminal following a restart, including grub hacking. Not fun at all.

The one helpful feature to it all this trouble was discovering that ~/.xsession-errors was >3GB. Diagnosing that is going to have to wait.

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#7 2021-02-27 00:14:23

Altoid
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 760  

Re: Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?)

Hello:

alexkemp wrote:

... discovering that ~/.xsession-errors was >3GB.
Diagnosing that is going to have to wait.

~/.xsession-errors can get out of control size-wise very quickly and not necessarily on a system with valid issues.
It's really only needed for debugging purposes.

One thing I did on a new installation long ago was to have a separate 2Gb /var partition.
There is a way to move an existing /var to a different partition but that exceeds the scope of this post which is an elegant way of saying I can't remember how it is done.
Obviously it involves repartitioning/creating a new partition but the rest is foggy (at least today).

Check this page: https://www.daniloaz.com/en/how-to-prev … huge-size/
Tells you how to deal with the ~/.xsession-errors file, from limiting its size via crontab to disabling writs to that file.

Cheers,

A.

Last edited by Altoid (2021-02-27 00:22:13)

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#8 2021-02-27 11:43:05

alexkemp
Member
Registered: 2018-05-14
Posts: 8  

Re: Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?)

Here is an attempt to make a summary of the whole thing, in one place:-

System:

Devuan GNU/Linux 3 (beowulf)
DM: XFCE 4.12
LM: SLiM 1.3.6-5.1+devuan6

Held-back packages:

libpolkit-qt-1-1
libpolkit-qt5-1-1

Clue within Beowulf Release Notes:

The default session manager for all desktops is logind (libpam-elogind).

Scary Fix:

$ sudo apt install libpam-elogind

The above switches the session manager from consolekit (which appears to be deprecated) to logind; these are mutually-exclusive. One driving force of this appears to be SLiM (the Login Manager that refuses to die). Switching the Session Manager also means switching the Policy Manager.

At this point everything worked fine, with the sole exception of every menu-link within the DM that required an elevation of privilege. A good example of this was Menu:System|Synaptic (the menu came up, but nothing happened when clicked). Further, all of the DM Menu:Logout options were dimmed (inaccessible) except for 'Logout' itself. A further clue was that $ sudo /usr/sbin/synaptic worked fine, plus Synaptic itself then operated in expected fashion & allowed a system update, including of the previously-withheld packages.

In for a penny, in for a pound (this removed >200 packages) (yikes):

$ sudo apt autoremove

Installing libpam-elogind had removed libsystemd0 (hurrah!), so no surprise that the system then required a restart to complete (just like Windows) (boo!):

$ sudo reboot

After restart, the whole system functioned in normal fashion. DM menu-links such as Synaptic & Logout now all work normally. All of that occurred without any further config required.

Last edited by alexkemp (2021-02-27 11:47:33)

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#9 2021-02-27 12:47:40

Altoid
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 760  

Re: Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?)

Hello:

alexkemp wrote:

Don't forget these two, they come up with surprising frequency :

Release Notes wrote:

Changes in su
- The behavior of su has changed. Use 'su -' to get root's path or use
   the full path to commands if you use only 'su'.

---- snip ----

Pulseaudio
- If you install a desktop environment from the installer iso, you will
   automatically get the debian-pulseaudio-config-override package,
   which will ensure that pulseaudio is running. If you're running a
   window manager, you may need to install the override package to get
   sound. Alternatively, you may use the old method, described below.
   
- If you have no sound, make sure the following line in
   /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf is commented as
   shown here:

   #autospawn=no

---- snip ----

Regarding the importance of Release Notes, (believe it or not) someone once actually posted this bit of interesting IT wisdom here at Dev1:

Reading distro notes:  Until Devuan, never wasted one minute reading them.  Either an OS is transparent, and works effortlessly, or it needs criticism.

8^7 !!!

Cheers,

A.

Last edited by Altoid (2021-02-27 13:03:09)

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#10 2021-04-08 09:38:38

MLEvD
Member
Registered: 2021-02-14
Posts: 88  

Re: Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?)

I've just done another upgrade from LMDE3 (stretch) with sysv installed, to Beowulf.
Not without first removing the desktop and xorg so around 300 packages remained. Left mint artwork installed, hoping it would become default when installing desktop after upgrade.
Mint artwork upgrade kept complaining, and every time I tried to fix it, something else got fixed. By the time I realised mint-artwork was complaining about no g-knob to hang off, not pinned legacy artwork, the 5 upgrade cycles had fixed all the longin-d console-c**t system-D*** wafflewamble for me.

When LMDE was created, everything was installed with recommends and set to manual. Only by completely removing and reinstalling, can the true svelt be achieved.

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