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#1 2024-03-26 19:06:55

FAipLLC-Andrew
Member
Registered: 2024-01-04
Posts: 30  

[SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

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FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new install - Devuan 5-01 slim sddm runit openRC sysv

---------------------------

I have read every entry here in the forum here that remotely addresses this cirucstance, but nothing has resolved.  Most i understand intuitively even if i lack technique.

I need help.

You must forgive me this first time only, [ i know better otherwise from observing from afar countless foruns on Countless Linux OS ].

Just the faintest background on me - 20 years of Linux use, have multiply simultaneous  booted 3 or 4 or 5 OS at a clip. Devuan to me is the answer. I nee not elaborate.
I swear i will come to te appropriate forums here just as soon as this one issue is resolved. FOR NOW it is not possible to do so from Devuan.

I am 72 and still learning every day, which is what brings me here now.

Successfuly7 avoidd text installs because it required konwledge of CLI etc that i was too impatient to settle down and absorb. Mea Culpa.

[I had NO problems with Install on 4.0 or re-install - everything has been fine for the last couple of year - Daily Driver ].

[ p.s. if you have dual nvme motherboard and are ahving iossues with OS seeing both, insert &quot; nvme_core.multipath=0 &quot; Ever kernel from 6.0 onwards has this flaw ].

------------------------

downloaded 5.0.1 and cannot get past the boot journal.

I installed evry combo imaginable in the last 36 hours = various combinations of:

slim sddm openRC sysv Runit, stable kernel vs 5.01

Alternate Repos in case something in one their system pakcages was bad somewhere

Fixed Kernel vs   6.1.1.

with all heavy D E multijples and wtihout

with servers and wtithout

No fixation on PXE VS DEDICATED Boot

Saving a copy of Boot Grub on install iso vs not

And I am Still hanging at the login tty1
- Startx is not acccesible because XOrg is  not available from server ( whatever THAT means ). it's obviously a generic reply of some sort.

wont initiate any  DE requests ( kde-plasma-desktop)or even Xfce4 ).

Just burps and says they cannot see the Comnents point to Xorg or StartX as the problem, even though they are installed acdording to the system replies.

-------------------------------

I would run Journal CTl but i don't know how for non-Sysd

note i would run whatever command necessary to get a jorunal issue printed out but i have no way to render it because i hve NO GUI.

------------------------------

I am a huge procsletizer for Linux in jsut about everyc apacity wehre my friends and acqaintances could care less.

I would like to make this my home  here, BECAUSE  THE POINT OF DVUAN is all about  freedom of movement.

As i write this it is approx 2 pm New Orleans time ( central ) March 26 - 2024 .  i have spent two days on this without result.. .

so  will come back here tomorrow morning and hopefully someone can give ma leg up on this.

AND YES am finally going to do Arch without assistance beccause i know i should - to rid myself of the ignorance of being shy about CLI.

but here in Devuan land is where i belong.

Any questions you post to me I will not see until tomorrow so please don't be aggravated that it takes me a while to get back.
It is this important to me that i ahve spent (now 3 days ) so long trying to get it right.

Wont' bore you with what-else i am multiply booting ).

Andrew Titpton

7203352642

FineARts.ip.LLC@ChromAesthetics.com

---------------

HARDWARE

Desktop is ROG-strix 370 [ one of the best bios software in existence - great for complicated systems, not jsut gaming ].

intel and nvidia  -- canoot WAIT to get to AMD Heaven before I die .

dual 1tb  nvme and  1 500g ssd and 4 sata  + NAS  Buffalo RAID ) DEPENDS upon Devuan to be the Anchor.

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#2 2024-03-26 20:49:02

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 238  

Re: [SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

I had a problem with startx recently. Maybe related, maybe not.

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#3 2024-03-26 22:55:09

GlennW
Member
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 613  

Re: [SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

Hi, when you do get to a tty, have you seen any errors about seatd? Because I found with a clean install seatd was not installed and the sddm would fail to show up and startx would not work either.

Once I installed seatd everything worked again. This was with kde/plasma desktop.

One other thing that may help... add console=tty12 to your grub line... I also add vga=794 to make the font smaller in-case the video module hasn't started, just makes it readable, for me. And may give more clues when it won't start properly.


pic from 1993, new guitar day.

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#4 2024-03-27 15:06:41

FAipLLC-Andrew
Member
Registered: 2024-01-04
Posts: 30  

Re: [SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

Nahkhiirmees comments:

Hi, when you do get to a tty, have you seen any errors about seatd? Because I found with a clean install seatd was not installed and the sddm would fail to show up and startx would not work either.

Once I installed seatd everything worked again. This was with kde/plasma desktop.

One other thing that may help... add console=tty12 to your grub line... I also add vga=794 to make the font smaller in-case the video module hasn't started, just makes it readable, for me. And may give more clues when it won't start properly.
----------------------------------

No such error but i called it up and it was not installed so i installed it and system seemed to like it and IT DID advance the boot to a clean login position instead of having to fight through  paragraphs.
Here  are my notes on the more-obvious anomalies --  from phone pic of visible text at rest awaiting login:

/run/lock : creating directory
/run/lock : correcting owner    ( but later on at the end it remarks about being locked out of some access and failure to locate server [ which i will reference below ]
er,bin (-2)
     nouveau firmware failed to load nvidia drivers  ( but i see this often  across otehr OS )
        firmware : failed to load  i915/kbl_dmc_ver1.04
       nouveau : DRM: failed to create kernel channel, -22
ALSA  warning runtime restore fialed with errors

Setting up  X  socket  directiores seemed to be ok in temp files

Seatd started
slim started

AFTER iintroduced seatd then X proceeded  to login   ( WHICH IS a help so thank yuou for that Nahkhiirmees.

E:  Could not open olock file  /var/lib/dpkg/lock-fronted - open ( 13: permission denied )
E:  Unable to acquire the dkg fronted lock ( var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend),   ( are you root )

When i run in root it still does not .. just x-sever error - besides cannot boot and stay in root - that is a big no no right ?

Still cannot access a desktop  in root either

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#5 2024-03-27 15:40:10

FAipLLC-Andrew
Member
Registered: 2024-01-04
Posts: 30  

Re: [SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

Nahkhiirmees  so what you are saying is that i should just AVOID Startx yes ?

GlenW  comments:
I AM able to see entire entries on my big monitor. 

When you do get to a tty, have you seen any errors about seatd? Because I found with a clean install seatd was not installed and the sddm would fail to show up and startx would not work either.

Once I installed seatd everything worked again. This was with kde/plasma desktop.

One other thing that may help... add console=tty12 to your grub line... I also add vga=794 to make the font smaller in-case the video module hasn't started, just makes it readable, for me. And may give more clues when it won't start properly.
----------------------------------

## No such error but i called it up and it was not installed so i installed it and system seemed to like it and IT DID advance the boot to a clean login position instead of having to fight through  paragraphs, so THANK YOU Glen . . 

## Here  are my notes on the more-obvious anomalies --  from phone pic of visible text at rest awaiting login:

/run/lock : creating directory
/run/lock : correcting owner    ( but later on at the end it remarks about being locked out of some access and failure to locate server [ which i will reference below ]
er,bin (-2)
     nouveau firmware failed to load nvidia drivers  ( but i see this often  across other OS )
        firmware : failed to load  i915/kbl_dmc_ver1.04
       nouveau : DRM: failed to create kernel channel, -22

## ALSA  warning runtime restore failed with errors

## Setting up  X  socket  directories seemed to be ok in temp files

## Seatd started
## slim started

## AFTER I introduced seatd then X proceeded  to login   [ Small victories , GlenW ]

E:  Could not open olock file  /var/lib/dpkg/lock-fronted - open ( 13: permission denied )
E:  Unable to acquire the dkg fronted lock ( var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend),   ( are you root )

## When i run in root it still does not .. just x-sever error - besides cannot boot and stay in root - that is a big no no right ?

Still cannot access a desktop  in root either

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#6 2024-03-27 16:35:27

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 238  

Re: [SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

I am not advocating for avoiding startx. Previously that command used to work with older hardware. But with my new laptop it just doesn't seem to work "out of the box".

As i mentioned in another topic, i saw some errors about /dev/tty$some_number and libseatd also. In xorg's log.
Today i'll try to a) reinstall seatd-related packages and b) those grub parameters. If those will help.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2024-03-27 16:36:49)

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#7 2024-03-29 04:16:31

FAipLLC-Andrew
Member
Registered: 2024-01-04
Posts: 30  

Re: [SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

I have worked with every Display Mgr available in combination with every trick to get to a tty7 for launching every desktop  and still have no possibility to call up a Desktop Environment. I keep being told that it is locked out and not available.
WHAT am i forgetting to do ?  there is no way this should not be working.

seatd is present. sddm and or slim are present.  xorg is present but not allowed to execute because it is locked out or some other error on the x-server.

What i did do was download fresh copy of the Install - live  . .  and see if there were any errors in the original downloaded .
.iso.  Nope - identical result.

What am  i forgetting to do  ? there must be something simple i am forgetting to do.

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#8 2024-03-29 04:49:54

FAipLLC-Andrew
Member
Registered: 2024-01-04
Posts: 30  

Re: [SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

OH yes and tasksel shows a pop-up selector but does not execute anything - no response from the mouse-click.

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#9 2024-03-29 05:29:46

FAipLLC-Andrew
Member
Registered: 2024-01-04
Posts: 30  

Re: [SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

I would imagine that this release info is relevant in some way - but why has no one else had an issue over this like i have ?
And since Devuan now incorporateswhatever relevant repos from Debian 12 then now there are involved, there might be a chance for some screw-up in the translation, BUT
No one else is having this problem ( at least that has not been resolved ):
------------------------------------

- Introduction
- New in this Release
     + Rootless startx uses libseat1
     + Sway (wayland) GUI without elogind

xserver-xorg-core now uses libseat1 to control rootless startx and access to
input and video devices. This has several advantages, the most significant being
that it removes the dbus dependency from xserver-xorg-core.

libseat1 can use either seatd or elogind as a
backend. If you need to override the default choice (autodiscovery), use the
LIBSEAT_BACKEND environment variable.

If you are using seatd as the backend, ensure the user is a member of the video group.

This is only relevant to running startx as a user, xorg run as root by a display
manager is unaffected.

### Wayland GUI without elogind

Users can now enjoy a wayland desktop without elogind by installing
libpam-ck-connector, sway and seatd.

Ensure the relevant user is a member of the `video` group and run sway from
the terminal.
. . . . . .. . . .

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#10 2024-03-29 09:37:22

ralph.ronnquist
Administrator
From: Battery Point, Tasmania, AUS
Registered: 2016-11-30
Posts: 1,191  

Re: [SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

Some tidbits:

1) the user that runs Xorg in vtN must have rw access to both /dev/ttyN and /dev/tty, and (I think) have w access to /dev/tty0 as well. This access is required for Xorg's VT ioctls.

2) further, that user must have rw access to /dev/dri/card0, i.e. the graphics card in use which typically is card0 but could possibly by card1 etc. This access is required for Xorg's graphics ioctls.

3) further, that user probably must have access to /dev/fb0 as well.

4) further, that user must have access to input devices, ether directly or as mediated by either logind0 or seatd. This access is required for Xorg's use of input devices.

4a) the logind0 method for mediating input deices requires access to a system dbus with whatever plethora of environment variables that requires. This typically gets done by using elogind for "session management".

4b) the seatd method for mediating input devices requires acces to the seatd communications socket.

Normally, (1) is typically achieved by the text terminal getty program which makes the logged in use the owner of the associated /dev/ttyN. The other (2-4) are typically achieved by the devices and the user being in the video group.

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#11 2024-04-04 19:17:58

FAipLLC-Andrew
Member
Registered: 2024-01-04
Posts: 30  

Re: [SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

There is no simple solution here. Thank you for everyone who tried, but i have defaulted to re-installing Chimaera (normally, i would just move on to some other distro, but i REALLY BUT REALLY want this to work for a lot of long-0term strategic reasons to simultaneously boot 3 other testing  distros plus Windows in order to deal with clients i have that i convert from windows and mac to Linux.

The permissions without  GUI TO WORK WITH
The inability to LAUNCH  a GUI at tty7 or any other tty
using sddm or slim and openRC and the other sysv alternatives did not resolve it.  Too bad.

whatever is necessary in permissions and users and groups to launch just the default desktop is beyond me with no visual way to work.  And no one has given me the path for that so  I give up for now. And startx is no option -- it just errors out.

leave me no way to know what to do at that point that will change the approaches as spelled out above by me and  all of you.

I will revert to Daedalus or the next experimental one later on this year but i have lots of work to do in the meantime that cannot be further delayed by this.

I know the problem should be narked solved when abandoned, but it is by no means solved.

Now on to Firefox repos ( not esr ) to get installed into Synaptic. But that requires a new question.

Thanks for  everything.

Andrew

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#12 2024-04-04 20:41:04

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 238  

Re: [SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

1) the user that runs Xorg in vtN must have rw access to both /dev/ttyN and /dev/tty, and (I think) have w access to /dev/tty0 as well. This access is required for Xorg's VT ioctls.

2) further, that user must have rw access to /dev/dri/card0, i.e. the graphics card in use which typically is card0 but could possibly by card1 etc. This access is required for Xorg's graphics ioctls.

3) further, that user probably must have access to /dev/fb0 as well.

In my case, 1) seems to be fine. Normal user account owns /dev/ttyN , /dev/tty has o=rw.
And 2) and 3) are achieved by normal users belonging to group video.

With 4) there may be a a problem concerning owners and rights of /dev/input*. That can be fixed one way or another.
But that is not the whole story since running startx as root bypasses the access-problem. And recently i had problems after exiting from xfce even when running as root.

Not too familiar with logind0, elogind or seatd.
Does the logind0 have something to do with systemd ?

Maybe i'll try the ssh-trick in a vm, what does the logs then say. But the easy way out seems to be same as Andrew's .

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#13 2024-04-05 02:28:46

FAipLLC-Andrew
Member
Registered: 2024-01-04
Posts: 30  

Re: [SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

The ironic part is that i only invoke startx AFTER sddm or slim fails to kickstart the D E. .. it should not even BE a problem.  But what is really confusing is that this is only a problem for SOME people.  Others never encounter the problem. Which tells me it should not be happening at all.  .  unless there is a more-strictly drawn condition that only doesn't work on some hardware.   So there is a bug that will eventually get fixed up the line but probably not for THIS  reason.   

Just as an aside, it seems that my dual nvme slots  in the ROG370 were only recognized by EVERY OS based upon Kernel 5.4 and earlier. The moment the upgrade to 6.0 NONE saw my second nvme, until i found only by accident a reference to  "  nvme_core.multipath=0  "  which negates the Kernel looking for sometthing that is NOT there -- so anything is possible these days.  i dont think anyone at LInus world even knows about it yet.

This is why i try so many  distributions - just to see how the evolutions sometimes DON'T  . .  .

just a last note here... i may try again later on to reinstall Daedalus with a different mind-set and maybe i will discover the pea under the mattress. I wonder if a straight upgrade from 4.0 to 5.0 instead of a wipe-and-install might work. 

Will let you know.

And thanks Nahkiirmees , for your thoughtful reply.

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#14 2024-04-05 18:36:11

nahkhiirmees
Member
Registered: 2022-07-24
Posts: 238  

Re: [SOLVED] FAILURE to Initiate Xorg or startx and therefore no GUI for my new ins

Next time when in the mood for experimenting, maybe i'll try to compile 6.x kernel in Chimaera and find out if problems with x reappear with that. Then there's still that memtest disk i haven't tried yet.

And searching with "(EE) seatd_libseat device not open (/dev/input/event0" resulted, amongst others:

https://www.reddit.com/r/devuan/comment … _20230103/
https://github.com/kennylevinsen/seatd
https://unix.stackexchange.com/question … sock-no-su
https://git.sr.ht/~kennylevinsen/seatd/ … 2b4cdf480c

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