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#1 2023-01-06 19:25:06

nobodyuknow
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Registered: 2017-09-10
Posts: 169  

DEVELOPERS: don't hardcode GPT on installation

I have a newish laptop with Windows 10 installed on the internal SSD. I have an old laptop with Windows 10 installed on the internal SSD, but I remove the SSD to install Linux on external SSDs/USB flash drives (to avoid dual-boot), which I then run on the newish laptop. Both laptops are configured with legacy boot. I do this crazy scheme because the newish laptop is a PITA with respect to removing the back.

Up until now, I've had no problem installing Linux using MBR. However, the latest Linux Mint and Fedora mandate that GPT be used. I gave up on both of them. Sparky Linux does it right, advising the use of GPT, but allowing MBR.

For 5.0, please don't mandate GPT.

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#2 2023-01-06 20:38:28

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 3,055  
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Re: DEVELOPERS: don't hardcode GPT on installation

Even if the installer suddenly starts "forcing" a GUID partition table (which is highly unlikely IMO) it will still be possible to install Devuan to a disk with an MS-DOS ("MBR" type) partition table by using debootstrap and following this guide.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2023-01-06 20:42:22)


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#3 2023-01-06 20:51:22

rolfie
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Registered: 2017-11-25
Posts: 747  

Re: DEVELOPERS: don't hardcode GPT on installation

You will have to get accustomed to efi and GPT with new HW. I bought a new Acer laptop about 2 years ago that does not have the possibility anymore to configure CSM.

efi and GPT are mandatory.

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#4 2023-01-07 09:59:25

Camtaf
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Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 261  

Re: DEVELOPERS: don't hardcode GPT on installation

GPT is easy enough, but getting familiar with EFI took a bit of time, for me, but most of my hardware is MBR, & Devuan Live/XFCE (& NetBSD) work/install on them fine - Devuan also installs to EFI without any problems on my 'newer' machines. smile

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#5 2023-01-07 18:42:18

nobodyuknow
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Registered: 2017-09-10
Posts: 169  

Re: DEVELOPERS: don't hardcode GPT on installation

@Head_on_a_Stick

Thanks for the link. That's one of those things that's really difficult to find via a search.

@rolfie and Camtaf

My laptops are both HP, which still offers legacy boot as a BIOS option, though my newish laptop offers a Frankenstein legacy boot. And yes, GPT isn't really the problem, it's UEFI which prevents Linux booting via external drives. One advantage of changing to legacy boot is that Microsoft is not downloading Windows 11 for me, even though the hardware would otherwise support it.

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#6 2023-01-07 19:16:41

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 3,055  
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Re: DEVELOPERS: don't hardcode GPT on installation

nobodyuknow wrote:

it's UEFI which prevents Linux booting via external drives

UEFI is perfectly capable of booting via external drives. Just use the removable loader location (/EFI/Boot/bootx64.efi on the EFI system partition). The grub-install command provides a --removable option to do just that.

See also https://www.rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloade … ive-naming.


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#7 2023-01-09 22:48:17

nobodyuknow
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Registered: 2017-09-10
Posts: 169  

Re: DEVELOPERS: don't hardcode GPT on installation

@Head_on_a_Stick

I don't know if that's true for my laptop. When I tried it with the default (UEFI) BIOS settings, I could not boot Linux at all. I would have preferred to have the BIOS support UEFI, as then everything would be current, but I could not make it work. I might try it again, though I'm not thrilled about going through the BIOS settings again.

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#8 2023-01-09 23:02:10

rolfie
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Registered: 2017-11-25
Posts: 747  

Re: DEVELOPERS: don't hardcode GPT on installation

When you want to install a linux in efi mode, the boot medium has to be started in efi mode.

Normally all PCs have a boot override. Use that and have a close look. on a efi system you should find the boot stick twice, without note and with (efi) or similar. For an efi installation use the efi marked option.

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#9 2023-01-13 19:28:57

nobodyuknow
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Registered: 2017-09-10
Posts: 169  

Re: DEVELOPERS: don't hardcode GPT on installation

@rolfie

It's been a while since I did it, but I do seem to remember seeing two entries for the USB flash drive. I'll have to wait until I have an entire day free to make sure I have a working system when I'm finished.

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#10 2023-01-13 21:26:49

zapper
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Registered: 2017-05-29
Posts: 490  

Re: DEVELOPERS: don't hardcode GPT on installation

rolfie wrote:

You will have to get accustomed to efi and GPT with new HW. I bought a new Acer laptop about 2 years ago that does not have the possibility anymore to configure CSM.

efi and GPT are mandatory.

New HW, yeah... but quick question,

Why would we want *new hardware*

I refuse to use uefi, as much as possible, because I don't care who it is, especially the big three corporate goons whose names I tire of saying, but even like RIAA, another bullshit artist corporation, hollywood, a hugely awful corpse,  or any of them, etc...

Their real reason for data collection has nothing to do with anti-terrorism or any of that lying crap...

Look up ciphersaber.com, for the real reason.

Btw, I think in particular, they want to have assurance that even if their copyright infringement issues happen, they will still make money enough to cover that which they are, but they are so greedy, there is no limit to how far they will take this. This feeds their ego, to be able to amass ungodly amounts of wealth and if they lose it, it hurts their egos, so that's why they do this.

They need to know this, but:

They *DO NOT* Need *OUR INFORMATION!* *EVER!*

They just don't need to collect it. I wouldn't care if the government and corporations could be trusted, which its clear is a huge false usually anyhow.

The problem is, they aren't the only ones who can take advantage of UEFI.  There are huge, serious vulnerabilities that the original bios never had that UEFI has due to there being a remote connection usually before the OS even is loaded.

There are malware safe havens anyhow across the globe... so yeah... no.

Unless you have coreboot + intel me disabled or libreboot, or something on that level or better.


Point being, we actually don't need to get used to using uefi, its a trash setup that serves no good purpose on any level.

I feel like it would have been nice to have a *drop mic emoji for this message*

Meh... oh well!


Black Lives Matter!  I am white, but I prefer equality over hatred.
Haughtiness comes before a fall, pride before destruction.
Peace be with you!
No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and mammon!

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#11 2023-01-14 09:30:53

Andre4freedom
Member
Registered: 2017-11-15
Posts: 78  

Re: DEVELOPERS: don't hardcode GPT on installation

Again, one can take the harm out of UEFI/EFI Firmware/BIOS:
DISABLE "SECURE BOOT".
That frees you from the dependency of MS-signed keys for OS or software... And saves you from a lot of configuration trouble.

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#12 2023-01-14 12:14:24

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 3,055  
Website

Re: DEVELOPERS: don't hardcode GPT on installation

Devuan supports SecureBoot by default now. No need to configure anything. Newer "secure core" [sic] machines may require that third-party certificates be enabled but that's no more complex than disabling SecureBoot.

Note that UEFI offers a vast attack surface compared to traditional BIOS booting and SecureBoot does actually help mitigate some of this, which is why the Debian developers have gone to the trouble of supporting it. If you're using a UEFI capable machine then SecureBoot should be enabled. "Legacy" (CSM) boot support is emulated through the UEFI firmware and so does not improve security in any way; using UEFI boot with SecureBoot enabled is more secure than using "Legacy" boot.


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII, 18.

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#13 2023-01-14 14:09:18

zapper
Member
Registered: 2017-05-29
Posts: 490  

Re: DEVELOPERS: don't hardcode GPT on installation

Andre4freedom wrote:

Again, one can take the harm out of UEFI/EFI Firmware/BIOS:
DISABLE "SECURE BOOT".
That frees you from the dependency of MS-signed keys for OS or software... And saves you from a lot of configuration trouble.

To be fair, coreboot + intel me disabled can be done up until Intel Gen 10 on quite a few processors.

If you wonder why I know this, look up Nitrokey.com and then check NitroPC on their website.

Nitropc uses that.

My point being, UEFI is very often a pile of unneeded crap.

The only exception is for people who work for people who have the gall to think that windows serves any purpose on any rational level.

Which is  a "deceptive, stupid, or morally depraved" argument

Then again, bosses who feel like Windows serves a purpose are very common... so the above criteria does alas apply.


Black Lives Matter!  I am white, but I prefer equality over hatred.
Haughtiness comes before a fall, pride before destruction.
Peace be with you!
No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and mammon!

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