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Greetings, Dev-Ones
I installed Chimaera 64 bit with runit and SLiM, and added a static IP address for eth0 to /etc/network/interfaces. SliM was later swapped out in favour of lightdm. Eth0 seems to be a "Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411" device with driver "r8169"
My /etc/apt/sources.list starts with
# deb cdrom:[Devuan GNU/Linux 4.0 chimaera amd64 - desktop 20210906]/ chimaera contrib main non-free
so I assume that's the vintage of the beta that was installed.
I noticed occasional errors while webbrowsing "Hmm. We’re having trouble finding that site....We can’t connect to the server" etc
I tried a few pings, and noticed the occasional dropped packet. But pings are like salted snacks, you can't have just one.
To remove the uncertainty associated with pinging unreliable, fly-by-night organisations on the Web (e.g. Facebook) I ping my ADSL router/gateway/DHCP server device by IP number.
Eventually, I noticed that if I use DHCP to assign an address, the percentage of dropped packets is usually 0, never over 1. However, with a static
IP assigned in /etc/network/interfaces, the dropped packets percentage is very often between 5 and 50.
I then removed the static eth0 address from /etc/network/interfaces, and tried to assign the static IP using NetworkManager. The dropping of packets continued.
The issue seems to be that something about static IP (OK, my setup of static IP) makes networking unreliable (not broken, just 5-50% unreliable). This seems consistent whether eth0 is managed by NetworkManager or /etc/network/interfaces
Has anyone else noticed anything like this? In particular...has anyone solved this with one simple trick? It will have to be simple.
Maybe someone can point me to a foolproof, painstakingly detailed and yet laughably simple guide for assigning static IP via NetworkManager?
Maybe I'm just holding it wrong.
Hi devadmin
I always feel personally insulted and "victim-blamed" by this question, but now I find myself asking it:
1) Can you confirm that the image you wrote to your flashdrive, passes the checksum test?
2) Can you perhaps try another flashdrive? Maybe you were just unlucky.
These checks usually have little cost (unless, for example, you have to buy another flashdrive) , and they *could* save quite a bit of pain.
I have the idea that the install beta isos have been getting refreshed early in the week for a few weeks now....so there might be a "20210927" edition soon?
It might also be useful to know more about the computer? Perhaps it just hates Chimaera.
A question for Devuan helpers: Is there a system "discovery" tool like inxi on the install or live media?
Good luck!
OK, thanks for the responses. I do believe my question is answered. Will try to replace SLiM with lightdm.
I think you may be right that it changes desktops. I'm a little hazy lately and should stop trying to answer questions as I'm batting zero today.
Thanks for your attention, anyway. I hope the "Get Well Soon" option is selectable for you.
On the slim panel there is a note to Press F1 to select sessions. Did that not work?
When I press F1 at the slim panel, the words "Session: Xfce Session" appears on the slim panel. This does not seem to do anything in my case. I have the idea from several years ago that this was meant to switch between different desktops, if one had them installed (Xfce, ICEWM, etc), but the memory is hazy.
Furthermore, I have the idea that I would only see the slim panel if I was logged out? I know I can switch users by logging out, and then logging back in as the other user, but I would prefer to avoid logging the original user out (in case it is doing something that I would prefer to not interrupt)
Advice and suggestions are welcome, so thanks for that. I am also looking for information, so that I (and perhaps future generations) can make an informed decision. Is the "Switch Users" option simply unavailable to SLiM users?
I imagine it's one of those features which are 'bloat' to some, and very useful to others.
Regarding the result from the search, in what way is it misleading? It *seems* to be telling me that, if I want dm-tools, I need to install lightdm. So, it appears to agree with your suggestion.
Hi All
Chimaera (64-bit,runit) seems to be working out quite nicely, despite beta status, but there are one or 2 niggles - perhaps I am missing something?
I notice the Switch Users option seems to be greyed out (or grayed out) in the Action Buttons area of my panel. I read somewhere on the Internet (so it must be true) that SLiM does not actually offer User Switching. I would really like to be able to easily switch between graphical desktops as my partner and I use the same PC with different usernames. What options are there?
It seems I can use CTRL+ALT+Fx to get to another tty, logon there as a different user, and invoke "startx". This brings up the desktop of the newly-logged-in user. It feels a bit hacky, but that's not too abysmal. Are there any possible pitfalls to using this method in day-to-day sharing-is-caring computer operations?
In a previous life with another distro, and presumably another display manager, I was able to access both a "Switch Users" button, and also to use the "Action Buttons" / "Lock Screen" function which gave me a "New Login" button. This would then allow the other user to enter their credentials. However, in my current dispensation, this gives me the disappointing message
xscreensaver: <time> could not execute "dm-tool": no such file or directory
I assume this below is apt telling me that dm-tool is part of lightdm? (If so, that's a nice feature of apt.)
apt search dm-tool
Sorting... Done
Full Text Search... Done
lightdm/testing 1.26.0-7+devuan3 amd64
simple display manager
Is there an equivalent available for SLiM?
I am not sure if this is relevant, especially in your case, but:
In the old days, it was suggested to me that, if one intended to use the "hibernate" a.k.a. "suspend-to-disk" function, one needed a slightly more swap than RAM. In your case, that would imply at least 16Gb of swap.
However, https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Power_ … /file_size in the section "About_swap_partition/file_size" seems to say:
"Even if your swap partition is smaller than RAM, you still have a big chance of hibernating successfully
.
.
You may either decrease the value of /sys/power/image_size to make the suspend image as small as possible (for small swap partitions)"
Thanks to all who replied.
It seems that what I was specifically interested, i.e. sharing a logical volume between linux instances in a multi-boot arrangement in exactly the same way as a normal partition, hopping between instances as the mood or need dictates, is something that our community here has no experience of.
@fsmithred and @rolfie, you seem to be describing doing it once or twice and getting away with it, without catastrophe.
That is encouraging, so thanks for that. However, I would also have been interested to hear from people who do it regularly, as part of their standard operating procedure, but it seems that we don't do that sort of thing here.
It could be that the idea is so ridiculous that it is not discussed, or is so commonplace that it is quite unremarkable.
If I ever get around to the experiment, I should probably start off with data I to which I am not too attached.
Well, thanks for the feedback so far. However, I am not really hearing anyone saying that they have actually done this sharing with a logical volume. Nor am I hearing people assuring me that "It's at least as safe as sharing a normal partition, everybody does it, without a second thought" or "We do it a lot, never had any problems"
Can anyone help with that?
Interesting, thanks. Are these 'parts' logical volumes?
So there is an lv with "office data" which is mounted by a Beowulf LVM instance when Beowulf is running, and by the Chimaera LVM instance when Chimaera is running? This seems to be similar to what I am hoping to do. For how long has this polyamorous arrangement been on the go without crashing&burning? (No H8, Love is Love, etc)
Splitting /home into generic/sharable and instance-specific seems like it's worth a separate tutorial(hint, hint)? Or maybe you could link to the guides/tutorials you followed?
Can I share an lvm logical volume between linux instances in a linux-only dual-boot (OK, maybe multiple-boot) setup?
I understand that sharing such system-customised partitions as /boot or /home might cause confusion, but have on several occasions shared "data" partitions between linux instances (even ones that are running simultaneously, usually via NFS.) I have also served LVM LVs via NFS. Is native LVM different in this regard? Is there more of a risk of data corruption ?
Are there risks, gotchas, implications to consider?
For example, consider I set up:
Instance01....PV01_on_Inst01....VG01_on_Inst01....LV01_in_VG01_on_Inst01
Now on the same hardware. I set up the option to boot into another instance:
Instance02....PV01_on_Inst02....VG01_on_Inst02....LV01_in_VG01_on_Inst02
In this case "LV01_in_VG01_on_Inst01" and "LV01_in_VG01_on_Inst02" actually contain the same data, because they are the same "logical volume"/"partition"/thing.
Implications, risks, gotchas? Is it possible that this might actually be safe ONLY if the sharing instances never exist at the same time? If so, it's OK in a multi-boot setup on a single machine?
For example, I don't plan on doing this at present, but:
I have the idea that I can create a snapshot of an LV (in this case, say, on Instance01) and it will contain all changes made to the original since the creation of the snapshot. If a change happens while this LV is mounted on Instance02, are these changes lost? Will rebooting back into Instance01 cause a sudden rush of updates to the snapshot, or are the changes lost Will the snapshot be hopelesly corrupted?
Or have I completely misunderstood what LVM is about?
Hi oui
I see several *i386* files. It is my understanding that these are the 32-bit versions. Can you access them?
Is this a clue?:
$ sudo apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade Hit:1 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf InRelease Hit:2 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates InRelease Hit:3 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security InRelease Hit:4 http://deb.devuan.org/devuan beowulf-proposed InRelease Hit:5 http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-backports InRelease Hit:6 https://josm.openstreetmap.de/apt alldist InRelease Reading package lists... Done E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend - open (13: Permission denied) E: Unable to acquire the dpkg frontend lock (/var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend), are you root?
Those are zero-byte dpkg/lock + dpkg/lock-frontend files, but they appear to be long-established. Removing them made zero difference.
Hi alexkemp
I can't really address the main complaint/question, but perhaps I could address this clue? I have the idea that the "apt-get dist-upgrade" after the && needs its own sudo ? That might explain the "are you root" response.
Thanks for the links, references, reminder about the LTS kernel, and the..er..simple search. I have fired up Liferea RSS reader and Thunderbird's RSS reader for the first time. They may be trying to tell me a bit too much about how the sausage is made, though.
It is perhaps a *little* disappointing that all the links point away from Devuan, but of course this is a tiny team trying to wrangle a monstrous stampede of catsnakes, and this is actually a complicated issue. Perhaps I could ask that if ever an extra mechanism besides aptitude is needed to keep a system up-to-date with security patches, a Devuan-specific advisory is posted in News and Announcements?
Just as part of my newly-awakened interest in assumption-checking: Could it happen that an installed kernel, kept up-to-date via my mindless "aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade", reaches a point where it no longer receives bugfixes & security updates (Is this the EOL concept?) but the distribution is still maintained ? Is this impossible by definition? Or could a plan be made to migrate to another kernel while retaining the rest of the installed distribution/GNU utilities/installed programs/etc?
Like changing the handle on my grandfather's axe?
Would this be arranged automagically via e.g. the metapackage mechanism, or via an announcement in News and Announcements on dev1galaxy.org?
I am trying to get a handle on the barest minimum I need to do, to return to smirking smugly at people on outdated OSs.
I normally just update/upgrade the system files
Hi Camtaf
I am interpreting your statement here as doing exactly what I have been doing (for years), where I say I
rely on "aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade" to keep the OS up to date with all security patches
Is my interpretation of your statement correct?
I feel as if the bicycle helmet that I have been using for years for brainial safety has just been revealed to be made of millimetre-thick hand-blown Venetian glass, so I am not sure I am being entirely rational here.
Because of this, I am trying to check my assumptions. (If we are agreeing, we soon find ourselves banned from the Internet for improper use of a forum)
As part of the assumption-checking progress, I need to consider that I was at fault in not becoming aware of this situation you mention here:
but, if a major flaw has been found, then it's time for a newer kernel.
Perhaps it was unreasonable of me to expect the distro to phone or knock on my door, or post an alert in large flaming letters on my desktop, just for the few old duffers who don't use their newer (admittedly interesting) homegrown package installer. I imagine that this is what the News and Announcements section of the forum is for. I do have the idea that if an update is recommended by the The Team, the words "recommended by The Team" should be included. And perhaps "the update is only available through our homegrown package installer - I hope you're reading this, old duffers who only use aptitude".
It seems the distro has actually acknowledged a problem by moving to 'auto-updating' kernels (in "refreshes" that came after my installs) by what appears to be the mechanism of kernel metapackages like the one fsmithred describes - wasn't this revolutionary technology invented in the noughties?
Of course, sometimes a kernel reaches EOL - how do distros deal with this? It's probably beyond the metapackagers art. Is this, once again, a job for "News and Announcements"?
If you really want to be up to date, you will have to compile the software & kernel yourself - otherwise you have to wait for someone else to do it & post it to the repos.
I have the idea that this is why I don't run Slackware? May Saint Patrick live long and prosper, but I am not l33t enough keep on top of security advisories and dependencies.
i don't know what others do, but 'aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade' will work properly in debian/devuan. You do need to have a line for the security repo in sources.list, but that's usually there by default.
I'm pretty sure that works in ubuntu, too. I'm not sure about mint. They break up their releases differently from the others.
Your words give me great comfort, and I thank you. I enquired of another distro why my kernel appeared to have remained unchanged for more than a year, and was told that 'auto-update' kernels were a recent introduction. Announcements were made, but it seems I missed the bit about apt alone not being enough.
I asked:
"Am I correct in assuming that every --- user who installed a version before ----, and relied on the apt system to update it, has been left on their original/install kernel, possibly for years?"
And was told:
"Possibly. But we announced the kernel updates prior and provided the methodology in " a separate (very useful) utility
So...it could be argued the fault was in my assumption. And not paying attention? So I asked the question here, and am paying attention to the answer. You could say I am trying to be an apt student.
Can I trust this sources.list from https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation … owulf.html as canon, at least until suitable mirrors are chosen?
/etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main
Thanks again.
I need a bit of a reality check - can you help shatter a possibly harmful illusion?
Are there Debian-based distributions (with aptitude installed) where one cannot rely on "aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade" to keep the OS up to date with all security patches ?
It has been an article of faith to me for at least 10 years, that this is how I keep my system up to date. Perhaps it was all an illusion? Maybe letting go of these fanciful notions is necessary in order to grow up. Is it time to grow up?
Can the OS in a Debian install (assuming appropriate sources and aptitude installed) be kept up to date with all security patches, with regular use of "aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade"?
*buntu?
Mint?
Devuan?
I am prepared to consider understanding that if 'upstream' stops supporting an app, e.g. Thunderbird 52, it might be difficult to just fling newer versions into position, invisibly, without special arrangements. Also, something esoteric like a "netinstall" might leave things out (as mentioned here https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=4231) But the kernel?
Great Success!
I installed libvirt-daemon-system, and it pulled in its helpers & deleted libsystemd0, as predicted.
This bit was a little concerning:
Preconfiguring packages ...
dpkg: libsystemd0:amd64: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
rsyslog depends on libsystemd0.
rpcbind depends on libsystemd0.
python3-systemd depends on libsystemd0 (>= 233).
openssh-server depends on libsystemd0.
lvm2 depends on libsystemd0 (>= 222).
libpulse0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
liblvm2cmd2.03:amd64 depends on libsystemd0 (>= 222).
libapt-pkg5.0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0 (>= 221).
But the machine booted OK without any further configuration. Boinc is boincing, my lvm vols are accessible, ssh access is available, and one newly created test VM is working through virt-manager. This is encouraging, as due a hasty re-homing after a power-supply failure, my MX17-18 'main' PC has no VT-x capability.
Does aptitude perhaps need a code for "Due to a Cold (not-entirely-)Civil War amongst system maintainers, I must Repeal and Replace this important system utility"?
Thanks nixer
Thanks for the feedback
$ sudo aptitude -s remove libsystemd0
The following packages will be REMOVED:
libsystemd0
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 9 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 786 kB will be freed.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
liblvm2cmd2.03 : Depends: libsystemd0 (>= 222) but it is not going to be installed
python3-systemd : Depends: libsystemd0 (>= 233) but it is not going to be installed
lvm2 : Depends: libsystemd0 (>= 222) but it is not going to be installed
libapt-pkg5.0 : Depends: libsystemd0 (>= 221) but it is not going to be installed
rsyslog : Depends: libsystemd0 but it is not going to be installed
libpulse0 : Depends: libsystemd0 but it is not going to be installed
openssh-server : Depends: libsystemd0 but it is not going to be installed
rpcbind : Depends: libsystemd0 but it is not going to be installed
The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
Install the following packages:
1) libelogind0 [241.4-2 (stable)]
Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?] n
The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
Keep the following packages at their current version:
1) libsystemd0 [241-7~deb10u7 (now, stable)]
Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?] n
*** No more solutions available ***
I think what made me nervous about removing was this:
lvm2 : Depends: libsystemd0 (>= 222) but it is not going to be installed
.
.
openssh-server : Depends: libsystemd0 but it is not going to be installed
rpcbind : Depends: libsystemd0 but it is not going to be installed
Does that mean lvm2 and openssh-server will stop working? That would be a bit of a trainstopper.
Or, does it mean libelogind0 will simply take over all the functions of libsystemd0, and all apps continue smoothly?
I get the impression that is what you are telling me --- I did not pick that up on first read.
OK, I see a thread on elogind's github which appears to confirm that libelogind0 is a replacement for libsystemd0. https://github.com/elogind/elogind/issues/97
I tried just the reinstall:
sudo apt install libelogind0 --reinstall -s
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
libsystemd0
The following NEW packages will be installed:
libelogind0
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 1 to remove and 9 not upgraded.
Remv libsystemd0 [241-7~deb10u7] [liblvm2cmd2.03:amd64 python3-systemd:amd64 lvm2:amd64 libapt-pkg5.0:amd64 rsyslog:amd64 libpulse0:amd64 openssh-server:amd64 rpcbind:amd64 ]
Inst libelogind0 (241.4-2 Devuan:3.0/stable [amd64])
Conf libelogind0 (241.4-2 Devuan:3.0/stable [amd64])
May the [] in the "Remv" line be interpreted to mean it will REMOVE the package in the first set of [] while the second set of [] show the packages that depend on it?
I think I might be running out of steam for today. Did I install this pain in my life by choosing runit? Or by choosing the server install? I have an older Beowulf install which, it seems, does not have libsystemd0. If I try to install it there, it offers to rip out libelogind0 and some fellow travellers.
Your comments have given me a thread to pull on, thanks. I might try the replace you suggest. If that does not work, it might be necessary to take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.
I wonder if it is worth mentioning that the I have a vague memory of installing from devuan_beowulf_3.1.1_amd64_server.iso (on usb), and choosing runit as my init system. No GUI was installed.
I find it quite difficult to look up those details after the fact.
I am not sure one can run GUI vm guests on a GUI-less vm host. Perhaps that will be another question, one day.
Hi Devuaners
Preamble to the preamble: Thanks for work going into the OS.
Preamble:
I would like to use virt-manager on my MX17-18 desktop to control VMs on a Beowulf headless machine. The MX virt-manager seems to suggest that I should verify that the libvirtd daemon is running on the remote host. I have the idea that this requires installation of libvirt-daemon-system on the Beowulf host. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)
OK, the problem:
When I try to install it:
sudo aptitude install -s libvirt-daemon-system
The following NEW packages will be installed:
augeas-lenses{a} dns-root-data{a} dnsmasq-base{a} elogind{a} libaugeas0{a} libelogind0{ab}
libidn11{a} libnetcf1{a} libpam-elogind{a} libparted2{a} libpolkit-agent-1-0{a}
libpolkit-backend-1-0{a} libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0{a} libpolkit-gobject-1-0{a}
libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0{a} libvirt-daemon{a} libvirt-daemon-system libxml2-utils{a}
libxslt1.1{a} netcat-openbsd{a} parted{a} policykit-1{a} policykit-1-gnome{a}
0 packages upgraded, 23 newly installed, 0 to remove and 9 not upgraded.
Need to get 5,460 kB of archives. After unpacking 20.7 MB will be used.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
libelogind0 : Conflicts: libsystemd0 but 241-7~deb10u7 is installed
The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
Remove the following packages:
1) libsystemd0 [241-7~deb10u7 (now, stable)]
Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]
I have the idea that libsystemd0 is quite important. I mean, it has systemd in the name, innit?
Am I misinterpreting the signs and portents? Did I perhaps make a mess of my sources.list?
grep -ivE '^#|^$' /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*
/etc/apt/sources.list:deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main non-free contrib
/etc/apt/sources.list:deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main non-free contrib
/etc/apt/sources.list:deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main non-free contrib
grep: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*: No such file or directory
Do I have to choose between libvirt-daemon-system and libsystemd0?
Hope you can offer some guidance
P.S. I see something similar mentioned here, but it did not seem to offer a solution that fits: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3741