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#26 Re: Installation » Devuan 5.0 netinstall failed [loading boot loader] » 2023-08-15 18:42:12

Thanks @andyp67.  The drive has several partitions with different distributions [antix, void] that I do not want to distrurb.  If the Devuan installer hadn't failed, I would have declined the offer to scribble over my hand-crafted 8-line grub.cfg file.  Surely, I cannot be the only person using MBR BIOS computers?  The only faint memory was that trying to install the grub bootloader again sometime worked.

I don't even know where the "uses UEFI" flag is in a failed install, so that I could repair things.   I can't see how zeroing the start of the partition would avoid the installer crashing.

#27 Installation » Devuan 5.0 netinstall failed [loading boot loader] » 2023-08-15 17:48:01

jacksprat
Replies: 14

I just tried to install devuan_daedalus_5.0.0_amd64_netinstall.iso, and it failed installing the boot loader.  As I find this is a common problem, I continued past this to the and installed a grub.cfg from a separate partition.  On reboot I get an error because Devuan defaults to UEFI, requiring the stupid FAT partition, which is not there as all my computers use ordinary BIOS.

I cannot tell why the original attempt to install the bootloader failed:  presumably, it would have asked me if using UEFI or not.  How do I recover from this, or should I give up?

#28 Re: Other Issues » Package update cuts off peripheral input » 2023-07-25 17:45:56

@hunter0one: I don't see any signs that Void are changing anything.  I don't use elogind on Void, perhaps because I don't use any DM.

In 2015 when I used "sinit" to init Debian7 then Devuan, I used "mdev" plus "something" to effect hot-plugging devices [I forget].  Nowadays, the "mdevd" daemon is available to handle that [not used it yet]. 

The problem is in the lib[g]udev libraries, which are required by firefox, chromium AND all webkit-based browsers.  I can't see what exactly these libraries ACTUALLY do.  The Linux kernel creates static devices, and "mdevd" would respond to new devices and set correct permisions for them.  Will someone save me from reading the source code to find out.

#29 Re: Other Issues » Package update cuts off peripheral input » 2023-07-25 09:56:53

I asked a question about this on the Void Linux support forum, and the response I got included

  "that's conspiracy theory BS. eudev is already """systemd"  becuase it is a forked portion of systemd-udev"

and that their devs are aware of the issue.  I don't know if this is because Void is still on libgudev-237.

It is depressing that the barriers to ditching udev completely, in favour of mdevd are too high for me.  I am sure that in  2015 Firefox "just worked" with udevd replaced with mdev, but perhaps I was not aware of libudev and libgudev back then.  Maybe my memory is wrong.

#30 Re: Installation » Install with Runit as the init » 2023-07-17 10:18:21

Thanks @andyp67: for "rsync" think a better "cp" command:  I have been using it to clone file systems, moving between partitions and removable backup drives.  The issue with startx and /tmp is just an annoying thing of my own doing, and can be resolved.

Aside:  whilst I have used computers for 50 years [mainly scientific research], only since 2015 have I taken an interest  in alternative init systems [etc].  I started by replacing sysvinit with "sinit" on Debian7 and Devuan.  However, I got bored with that, and moved to Void Linux and Runit.  Recently, I have explored Runit on AntiX and Devuan:  both are complicated by re-using the sysvinit scripts.  Both mean I must learn apt, apt-get and dpkg anew.  Hence the questions here.

#31 Re: Installation » Install with Runit as the init » 2023-07-16 20:25:31

Thanks @andyp67, but my rsync backup wouldn't work [startx failed because of a /tmp..Xauthority write error].  After a few days, I will try again.  Worst case, I will re-install from netinstall ISO. 

I hope that APT will allow me to remove Slim completely from the system.  Otherwise, it will be safer to move  from /etc/init.d/ completely.

#32 Re: Installation » Install with Runit as the init » 2023-07-16 18:24:39

Good news:  "apt-get dist-upgrade --fix-missing" completed without any errors.  Bad news:  it seriously messed up my system.  For example, whereas I had stopped slim graphical login with "chmod -x /etc/init.d/slim", now nothing would stop it.  I'm not sure what other damage the dist-upgrade did.

I have decided to try and undo things from an earlier rsync backup.  Thanks anyway for your help here.

#33 Re: Installation » Install with Runit as the init » 2023-07-16 15:47:18

@fsmithred:  I reran the test with the same result.  Here is sources.list minus comments:

deb [url]http://deb.devuan.org/merged[/url] daedalus main non-free contrib
deb-src [url]http://deb.devuan.org/merged[/url] daedalus main non-free contrib
deb [url]http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged[/url] daedalus-security main contrib non-free
deb-src [url]http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged[/url] daedalus-security main contrib non-free
deb [url]http://deb.devuan.org/merged[/url] daedalus-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src [url]http://deb.devuan.org/merged[/url] daedalus-updates main contrib non-free

Does this look OK?

#34 Re: Installation » Install with Runit as the init » 2023-07-16 13:27:47

@fsmithred:  I changed /etc/apt/source.list from chimaera->daedalus according to your instructions, but the "apt upgrade" failed with error

  "libwacom9 depends on libwacom-common  2.6.0-1 but 1.8-2 is to be installed:  broken packages"

If this was the first of many breakages arising from the shock of switching the sources.list, then I may be stuck.  I will probably reverse sources.list to chiraera and hope that "apt  update" fixes things.  Ideas?

#35 Re: Installation » Install with Runit as the init » 2023-07-15 19:58:16

Sorry @fsmithred, I didn't do anything beyond 4.0 yet.  I will try the "chimaera" to "daedalus" dist-upgrade tomorrow.  I feel confident your plan will work.  Thanks.

#36 Re: Installation » Install with Runit as the init » 2023-07-15 16:20:34

Thanks @fsmithred, I was going to just use 4.0, maybe adjusting my grub.cfg to select the most recent kernel.  However, if I can perform an upgrade to 5.0 following your instructions, I will try this [after a system backup].

By "did nothing" I just meant that no new packages were installed.  I just used

  apt-get update
  apt-get dist-upgrade

so I skipped the separate "upgrade" step, thinking "dist-upgrade" was enough.

#37 Re: Installation » Install with Runit as the init » 2023-07-14 18:35:50

Thanks @andyp67, but it was an error introduced between 4.0 and 5.0 rc4, which the Devuan devs can hopefully fix before they release 5.0 to a wider audience.

I started to look at the installer source, but gave up.  I had to repair the Void Linux installer as it insisted that I must use UEFI!  However, that was a single file shell script that I could run from the command line.

#38 Re: Installation » Install with Runit as the init » 2023-07-14 07:58:14

I attempted to re-install, and it failed with a fatal error [again] in the part where it installs the boot loader.  I was only able to continue by skipping over the offending step.  I did not see any reference to UEFI, so it must have been with the failed skipped step.  On completion, and reboot, the result was as before:  it drops into a shell complaining about fsck failure on a ficticious FAT filesystem.

So, why is the installer failing in the crucial boot loader step.  I'm stuck.

Added:  plan-B is to fresh install Devuan 4 using netinstall.  Hopefully, it will let me opt out of bootloader but accept my bios choice.  Then update+dist-upgrade might just get me closer to 5.0, or not.

Added:  Devuan 4 installed without incident, but dist-upgrade did nothing.  I can't believe that I am the only user affected by Devuan 5 the fatal installer issue.

#39 Re: Installation » Install with Runit as the init » 2023-07-13 13:20:50

Thanks @rolfie:  I must have missed the crucial question/choice during the netinstall.  If there is no retrospective remedy, I will have another try [another day, tired].

Runit can be implemented in many ways.  I have used Void Linux for years, and all the scripts are tiny and all contained in /etc/runit.  I recently took a look at AntiX Linux runit, which re-uses the complicated  SysVinit scripts verbatim.   I am not yet sure what Devuan does.

#40 Re: Installation » Install with Runit as the init » 2023-07-13 10:25:54

I completed a netinstall, selecting runit.  It failed configuring shim-signed.. executing "grub-install dummy failed, fatal error", but I continued to the end and I opted out of the bootloader install [I prefer my 8-line custom grub.cfg file].

On reboot, it fails with "fsck.fat error code 6", which doesn't exist.  Also, why is it attempting to do anything with FAT filesystems:  i do not use Efi on my computers.  Did I miss some Efi-related option when doing the netinstall?  I can continue through this error, but every time I reboot becomes a pain.

#41 Installation » Install with Runit as the init » 2023-07-12 21:22:41

jacksprat
Replies: 28

Starting from

  devuan_daedalus_5.0.0-rc1_amd64_desktop-live.iso

I just installed this to a partition on my hard drive.  I wanted to explore Runit on the latest version of Devuan.  However, I didn't see any option to select Runit instead of SysVinit during the install.  Did I miss it [the font during install was tiny] or must it be retro-fitted?  The /etc/runit directory is not helpful.

Thanks.

Added:  I see from reading ALL of the install instructions that the init option is probably only available for non-live media such as netinstall.

#42 Re: Installation » Question about netinstall to existing UEFI-based system » 2022-03-02 23:29:11

@fsmithred:  thanks, I am not aware of what would modify my custom grub.cfg file between boots;  on Void grub.cfg persists until I install a new kernel and then I manually revise it.  Probably Devuan does something different.

I take your point about using UUIDs when multiple drives are present.

The 177 line grub.cfg file created for Void has does not contain the strings "msdos" or "gpt", but I can see that msdos->gpt would be right;  I assume that files in /etc/grub.d/ are used by grub-mkconfig to create grub.cfg.  Unfortunately, I can't find out what Devuan would put here without actually letting the installer load the bootloader.  Lots of thinking needed.  Maybe a few experiments.

I am probably making too much of a meal of this and should just rsync backup everything to USB drive and let the Devuan installer run bootloader as its last step.

#43 Re: Installation » Question about netinstall to existing UEFI-based system » 2022-03-02 20:58:49

Thanks for the replies.

@fsmithred:  it sounds like the Devuan installer does the right thing.  To be safe, I will use rsync on both partitions and "sgdisk --backup" to save the partition table.

@rolfie:  I didn't understand your reply [my fault].

@head_on_a_stick?  your solution implies that, as long as I don't allow the Devuan installer to install the GRUB bootloader, then I can create my own complete menuentry script for Devuan and append it to the end of the Void grub.cfg file [running grub_install from Void].  That sort of implies that I can replace the Void supplied monster grub.cfg with a simpler:

  menuentry 'Void 5.9.16  runit restart [sda2]' {
     insmod gzio
     insmod part_msdos
     insmod ext2
     set root='hd0,msdos2'
     linux /boot/vmlinuz-5.9.16_1 root=/dev/sda2 rootfstype=ext2 quiet ro nosmt
     initrd /boot/initramfs-5.9.16_1.img
  }

which makes no reference to UEFI!  Or am I missing something?

#44 Installation » Question about netinstall to existing UEFI-based system » 2022-03-01 23:57:24

jacksprat
Replies: 8

I have accepted that my new computer is an UEFI-only zone.  I installed Void Linux on it:  partition 1 is the vfat[fat16] containing efi "stuff";  partition 2 contains the Void root file system.  When it boots, I am presented with the GRUB menu showing Void.

I now want to install Devuan 4.0 on partition 3, but I am  wary of messing up.  Does the netinstall.iso installer work as I would expect:  detects the Void system in partition 2, and constructs a combined grub.conf with Void and Devuan choices?

When I say "wary" I mean terrified, as I wasted 2 days trying and failing to convert the system from UEFI to MBR.

All my previous computers over 2.5 decades have been MBR-based, so this is all very new to me.

Thanks.

#45 Re: Installation » [SOLVED] Where did obmenu go? » 2022-02-19 10:55:34

Thanks for your help, but I decided to just copy over the obmenu generated .xml files from my Void computer to ~/.config/openbox;  I will comeback to your suggestions for obconf alternatives if I get bored writing xml.

#46 Re: Installation » [SOLVED] Where did obmenu go? » 2022-02-18 22:12:13

Thanks, I will try adding into /etc/apt, though I am not sure about mixing different releases.  My backup is to modify ~/.config/openbox/menu.xml .  I must be alone in using Openbox as my DE.

#47 Installation » [SOLVED] Where did obmenu go? » 2022-02-18 21:17:35

jacksprat
Replies: 27

I [think I] remember using the Openbox menu tool "obmenu" in earlier versions of Devuan, but the default 4.0 install doesn't have it.  Is it discontinued, hidden?  If the former, is its function replaced by anything?  Thanks.

#48 Devuan » A Possible Future For Devuan and Linux » 2022-02-01 10:09:32

jacksprat
Replies: 17

I noticed that there has been recent discussion of the future of Devuan: "As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan (init diversity). Is there any reason to stay on Devuan?"

Whilst I started out with Devuan as soon as it existed, and install every new version, I moved to Void Linux in recent years.  For this reason, I have not wanted to take part in these discussions.  However, I hope I can help broaden the scope.

Many of the distributions that were absorbed into the systemD world have spun-off variants with systemD removed:  Arch has Artix; Debian has Devuan, AntiX.  I cannot imagine how difficult it is to remove systemD from the Debian/Arch bases and to maintain this.  The prospect of systemD "infecting" the Linux kernel source code is too scary to think about.

At the same time, there seems to be uncertainty whether Slackware and Gentoo can continue to resist the lure of systemD.

At 1.3 million lines of code, I cannot see the Redhat/systemD camp deciding that it was all a horrible mistake.

Devuan/AntiX, Artix and Void all have different release models, init systems, package managers , packages repositories, Linux Kernels, etc. I am sure that each would defend their respective camps.  But imagine a world where there were just "packages" in some common format supporting dependency resolution.  That would lead to a single "base" distribution, but not an end to the diversity within the Linux world.  Everyone has favourite Desktop Environments, collections of tools, web browsers, etc, but don't want the hassle of bringing them together to form a distribution.  This would have the effect of bringing us closer to a common Linux distribution without removing the diversity that is lacking in the Windows and Apple worlds.

This would be different from what systemD has been doing, ever extending its reach into many elements of the Linux userland. 

Probably never going to happen in my lifetime, but it might be the key to defeating the systemD cancer.  In the meantime, I'll continue to use Void, keeping Devuan in reserve.

#49 Re: Installation » devuan fresh installation on HP laptop fails to load graphical desktop » 2021-03-15 23:40:47

nomorelogic:  I thought the command was

  # apt-get update

on devuan/debian.

#50 Re: Installation » devuan fresh installation on HP laptop fails to load graphical desktop » 2021-03-14 17:01:09

nomorelogic:  I saw you needed recent mesa.  Both void live image and devuan [ceres] have the latest mesa-20.3.4 package

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