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It loads fine for me on several browsers. It's probable temporary network problem on your sides.
????
you can't see these links?
https://gitea.com/easydeb
https://gitea.com/DUR
@blackhole
I prefer that over overmoderated stupidity.
Any way, about the subject. I would need to transfer two orgs from gitea to git.devuan
peoples political views are not a problem, as long as they don't attempt a purge on others.
I think a distro could be neutral.
Three years ago, we had a user who put in the effort to help Devuan by creating a DVD set production script and a survey of user-made content. There was a lot of potential to help the project out in both cases, but of course, he was bullied and driven away by a few people in position of power over a non-issue (source). Not long after, one of the staff members unilaterally removed the quote-to-reply functionality without consulting the active userbase first, just because of said non-issue that bothered said staff member.
Had said incident not happened, he would have likely contributed directly to the releases of Daedalus and now Excalibur, as well as the next testing version Freia. Instead of throwing all this bureaucratic crap on regular users offering to volunteer in SOME form, maybe consider that they (we) are the ones who keep Devuan's wheels spinning, and without these users, Devuan loses users to another distro like Artix or even Gentoo.
I was wandering where was the "quote to reply".
I start having second thoughts now about contributing. They are plenty of projects that are socially toxic.
I'm following the AUR architecture. It's over 20 years old, i doubt you'll do better.
Users can orphan or adopt repos, so having their names in the repo name doesn't work.
I'll also need special restrictions, for example users shouldn't be able to change git history
Having them side by side with the other orgs is very reasonable to me.
The AUR is basically a bunch of scripts to build packages for Arch. It's one per package, they are not generic. The DUR/easydeb project does something similar with debian systems. In the AUR, individuals manage their own scripts in individual git repos. To emulate this ability, the project needs to allow users to upload their own scripts inside an org. Having just one git repo will cause excessive centralization. The alternative of just letting separate repos entirely, will cause difficulties searching them and moderating them.
i'm not arguing to allow orgs in general. That's too big of a discussion.
Specifically here, i have easydeb relevant stuff organized in easydeb org and the DEBBUILDs in a DUR org. The DUR org is ~150 tiny repositories (5MB total?) plus eventually other users DEBBUUILDs. It's meant to be decentralized with a lot of freedom for maintainers, emulating the AUR inside gitea.
In my OP, i had something like this in mind, using a gitea instance to host them. This is perfect, you already have a gitea instance.
i'm indeed using easyrpg for those games. The wine games are other.
although first and foremost of course you'd publish your package to Debian
beh...
@brocashelm
Ahh, a man of culture. Here for your education https://gitea.com/DUR/violated-heroine-en (you'll need 2 external build dependencies and 1 external run dependency)
@ralph.ronnquist
ok, i registered.... https://git.devuan.org/exponentialmatrix
On gitea i organized DUR and easydeb in orgs though... i don't have the rights to create an org...
i would like to migrate the orgs https://gitea.com/easydeb and https://gitea.com/DUR
for those that think that they have no use of this.
an example with the git version of yt-dlp https://gitea.com/DUR/yt-dlp-git
it often breaks and often it's slow to get the new backport from the distro. Instead, you can build the latest package in a few minutes.
i have a few small games where the recipe does the various crap needed to make them work on debian (wine, exotic compilers, .config etc). For example i have violated heroine (yes, it's naughty), that's normally a huge pain to collect all the necessary crap to make it run on lnux. When i was on bookworm, i would also download libraries from sid and bundle them with binary apps that needed them. grid wars 2 is a nice little game too.
I'm currently hosting my 150 examples on gitea https://gitea.com/DUR . Long story short, i think that's the best option.
this is a new source package format. It's not as simple as just uploading a source package. easydeb uses easydeb to package it self. I see debian as too bureaucratic to accept changes of this sort... If they really wanted a debian AUR they would have already done it a long time ago. Given they removed fortunes-off and they will rewrite apt in rust, i think they are moving in the opposite direction. There was a long time ago a package with a cartoon girl on the desktop that lost more of her clothes the hotter the CPU was... I don't believe today debian would ever accept such a package ever again. Debian, has become a product to be sold to companies.
i have a few other packages that i would propose, but they too have the new source format. if some one cares about rtv, try the tuir recipe.
speaking of pessimism. We are going through the human equivalent of the "mouse utopia experiment". Depending on your politics, you'll explain it differently. The important part is that it can't be stopped and it's irreversible. You can see it repeat through out history and no on ever solves it.
About the subject. They are several reason to do this. And having the official logo on it is a plus.
1. It can be used to groom future maintainers.
2. You can put their lesser quality packages, for whatever reason. Instead of having crappy private packages, you can dump them there for others to use.
3. New packages can be pumped from there.
4. Tech news will talk about it. Should see a spike of interest
5. The official endorsement is important. It should be part of the distro.
6. The new source format is important. Auditing is easier and lowers the barrier to entry.
7. The biggest selling point of Arch, is the AUR.
8. Can try and do an embrace, extend and extinguish on debian. Debian is decaying, we need a post debian plan.
9. That Arch and the AUR exists is an institutional failure of Debian.
10. The AUR is a resounding sucess, You can't pretend that it's irrelevent even if personally don't care.
The mongols where able to shoot very accurately with a bow on horse back. They achieve this by starting to ride horses at age 3. This is how you truly learn.
You have it backwards. Standards have become too high and they constantly change. Work load is too high and stressful. Education is too demanding but take the basics for granted. It's the classic mistake all institutions make and gradually self destruct. Then there's talk of making X great again, not realizing that the peak was not sustainable resulting in the current decline.
We learn from history, that people don't learn from history. From the Spartans and Hittites to wikipedia and microsoft.... And yes also debian. Debian today, is not the same as Ian Murdoch's debian.... And also he killed him self, that should be taken as a warning that the good old days aren't as good as they might seem. A good example is South Korea. Extremely hard working, extreme education... but they are also the world champions in childlessness and suicide.
@RedGreen925
There's no stable Arch and it's easier to fork the AUR then make a stable arch.... So no, you can't just use Arch.
The security model is copied on the AUR. The recipes are actually in git repos. You audit it once, then you check the diffs later. You establish some trust on the specific maintainers. Then trusted users can ban accounts pushing malware and users can report them. Yes, you can't just blindly trust them like with a disro, but it's not totally wild either. In the end you download software from some random dude on the internet. It's not true no thought was put in security.
The recipe, downloads the source from upstream. It doesn't come bundled like normal packages.
This is a reaction to the slowness of packaging in normal distros.
@golinux
I'm guessing you didn't read all the rant.
One reason to do this, is to groom the next generation. Institutions always do the mistake of adopting too high standards and killing the next generation. One of the reasons to have a DUR, is to flatten the learning curve. You need a place where people suck, so that they can gain experience and stop sucking.
@greenjeans
People are very conservative, i already expect they will refuse.
Do you feel like upgrading your variant to a distro? The easydeb format could be a co-official source package format and the DUR an official "AUR"... i suppose it will be the "VUR".
@RedGreen925
The DUR will only have the recipes. A user would need to build the package themselves with the recipes. The built packages will not be added to the main archive. Security will be on the users.
@EDX-0
You can make lower quality packages and put them on the DUR. One of the objectives, is to lower the barrier to entry. It's better something then nothing. It's a incrementalism strategy.
@Camtaf
Similar model with AUR. Some trusted users police it and also reports from normal users. At first, it will be just me. Security will be mostly on users, you basically installing random software from the internet.
I would really like having a AUR (Arch User repository) but for a debian lts system. For those that don't know, The AUR is a large collection of script recipes for the ARCH system for packaging software. These are not general tools, you need the specific recipe, then the script will collect all the files and dependencies and patch stuff in order to build a package that you can then install normally.
I'm maintainig a fork of the arch tool and a few other helpers i started my self. https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=7529
I believe they are many good reasons to have such a repository. And the best way to make such a repo, is by being officially part of a distro.
One very good reason, is in order to groom the next generation of package maintainers. You need a place, where people suck and can gain experience until they stop sucking. A DUR will be such a place. Institutions always do the mistake of becoming too elitistic and slowly strangling new people and with that committing suicide. In that sense, the quality of debian and devuan are too high. Specifically debian has gone too far with quality on various things. For example, you are meant to keep track of the copyright of every single file in a package in a specific machine readable format. Such a thing creates a lot of bureaucracy of dubious value. The prospect of becoming a debian packager is frankly intimidating and having to deal with a faceless bureaucracy. I believe that debian, is slowly killing it self, it just goes through the usual process of institutional decay. The latest rust and censorship (sexual and rude stuff) are a continuation of a long term trend. fortunes-off was in debian for over 20 years, they removed it a few years ago. Stuff like this are a red flag.
Other more immediate reasons is just practicality. There's a lot of software that will never be formally packaged. People can package it them selves with a crappy recipe from a DUR.
These recipes, are actually a new source package format in bash. I'm not saying to drop the debian source format, that would be impractical, the two can coexist. Being in bash, that lowers the barrier of entry. You just use ln for links, you don't need to learn how makefiles work etc. Also, they are single files, allowing easier audit in a low trust environment. And they also get the sources from upstream, allowing the repo to be extremely light weight. And they are similar to the AUR format, allowing some one to convert AUR recipes to DUR recipes without having to necessarily start from scratch.
If a stable version of Arch existed, i would not have bothered with all this. Cloning something like debian, is a huge undertaking. The most practical approach is to fork the AUR. The recipes stay as close as practically possible. A lot of devs just try to reinvent the weal with brand new formats. This way, i'm trying to minimize pointless deduplication.
The whole project, tries to keep the learning curve as flat as possible. This is why it's written in bash and tries to reuse what's already there. In the linux world, bash is the most well known programming language, since it's right there, in the terminal. The AUR on the other hand, has something like 100k recipes, so most of the time, you don't start from zero. They are no plans to rewrite things in rust or whatever, or changing the formats for some illusory reason. By not changing things, you lowering the learning curve. The project will stay very conservative. My attitude is, write once, run for ever and get married to your project instead of constantly rewriting everything.
What's being requested?
create an official DUR and accept the new source format (the debian formats remain). We could reuse gitea for this, very light on resources. I'm sure you have some server space available.
i have some thing like 100 example recipes https://gitea.com/DUR
Of those i would like to propose a few for inclusion in devuan. That would also require including easydeb, the packager.
actually you didn't understand. AI will become as smart and capable as humans, like in science fiction.
If it's a dystopia or not, that's a different matter. Depends who's the emperor. There's the potential for both.
then there's the fermi paradox implying extinction.
This is early days of AI, they are just demented. This is the worse they will ever be.
I hear rumors that the latest claude is getting very good. Ir's too pricy for me to check.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwmK46hhfwg
A lot of people say too much nonsense on AI.
Here's a short explanation on AI.
AI, is a gigantic function approximator. It wasn't invented by a human, it was reverse engineered from the animal brain. Both work on the same principle.
Ever heard of the line of best fit? That's a very simple function approximator. You give to an algorithm a bunch of points and it spits out a line. An AI/brain is billions of times larger and more sophisticated then just a strait line.
More specifically. during training, the training algorithm causes the examples to "decompose" in abstract ideas and get sorted by layers of increasing abstraction. For example, the lowest layer recognizes segments of curves, the next layer recognizes loops, the next recognizes eyes, the next heads.... the last one recognizes cat or dog. This is actually thinking, it doesn't just "regurgitate". It's more obvious that it is thinking when you deal with stuff that simply can't be rote learned. For example, AI solved go game and protein folding. These two things have more possible solutions then they are atoms in the universe. These two examples clearly prove that it's not just a fancy lookup table. These things truly think. It's not just hype, it's not just marketing, it's not just a fancy DB. If you still insist it's just a DB, you are an idiot. It's flat earth/ young earth creationist level of stupid.
An other example, an AI was trained to recognize a disease in the back of the eye. They realized, that it could also recognize gender just by looking at the back of the eye... No one knows how it's doing that.
Current AI is demented because the quality of the training is a bit iffy. All the weird stuff like with OP, it's just AIs being a bit mad. The training is riddled with errors.Did you really think that the first AIs will not be half insane? And because this fits with the subject. Sentience doesn't exist, it's just an illusion. Humans are not sentient, they are just biological robots that think they are sentient. With that in mind, AI is not sentient, just demented.
How the sentience illusion work? The brain(and AI) have tokens that represent something about the world, like colors, sensations, ideas ect. The brain creates a simulation of the real word, with these tokens being presented as being real. In a simulation you can do what ever you want, you can have dragons, elves fairies etc. For practical reasons, the real encoding of the tokens is hidden from inside the simulation. Probably colors simply follow an RGB encoding, they are other weird ones like sensation of burned is encoded with cold and warm. You can only experience what's in that simulation and the tokens are irreducible by design. This is what it causes the illusion. It's just a simulation of the brain that doesn't really exist. From your perspective it's simultaneously reality and fantasy, fake and real. This is how the paradox of sentience get's solved. It's not real magic, it's just a disappointing trick. Most people can't accept this.
the best analogy i can think of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX6uhU0OX_c
And just a reminder how fast it improves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiTN4TYLG5c
the equivalent of optdepends is recommends. Try using pkgbuild2debbuild-helper, it helps with stuff like this, the dependency translation is stubbed though and it will always be bad.
clang is a compiler, i don't understand why it's there. It seams to be used to compile some scripts during normal use. You tell me what is for. Try with and without.
mariadb is an alternative database lib. it's probably libmariadb3 . It's probably already installed by something else. I suspect it's an alternative to sqlite. This could go in depends as 'libsqlite3-0|libmariadb3'. I think it's actually a drop in replacement for sqlite.
#suggests=('clang: Support for beautification of message filter scripts'
# 'mariadb-libs: Support for MariaDB-based data storage')
did you meant to say builddepends? suggests is the suggest in the binary package.
arch linux uses "any" to mean "all" and internally it's translated to all. Using the debian convention will create confusion.
use this...
arch=("${EASYDEB_DPKG_ARCHITECTURE}")
@tux_99
crappy easychroot, have low expectations. Will be polished over time. It's better over figuring out all the commands your self.
https://gitea.com/easydeb/easychroot
I updated the debbuild. It's "all" and priority was added in easydeb. Make an account on gittea, i'll make you a collaborator so that you can edit it your self in the future. branches correspond to debian distro that was tested on.
rssguard on the DUR https://gitea.com/DUR/rssguard
I didn't lol. I just build them on my user system.
I'm discovering the commands, i'll make a crappy script soon.
You just create a chroot, copy into it what you need, then enter the chroot as if you logged in an other linux machine and do your business. It's not too difficult to script. You are just the first person to care to do this. If you have a few packages, the manual way is fine, if you have 1000 like some distro maintainers, then yea, you'll need to automate.